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Seperation of Church and State is one of the great founding principles of the United States

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Originally posted by fb101

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Seperation of Church and State is one of the great founding principles of the United States

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OK as long as it's not used to suppress religion. My objection is to how it has lately been used in the wrong manner, like stopping people from praying whenever they're in a public forum. I know many people who've been arrested for praying on a public sidewalk. People should pay where they want, or not pray when they don't want. Personal choice.

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Originally posted by hobo finds

What dose it say on coins from Iran? Trust your Government?

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Originally posted by hobo finds

What dose it say on coins from Iran? Trust your Government?

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The founders of America (the Puritans) intended to establish a new world, they intended to create a "city on a hill," a society governed by God’s Law, giving glory to God, and spreading the gospel across the globe. The original intent of the settlers and founders of the New World was to form a Godly nation. In order to make sure that the Government would foster Christ’s teachings and not atheism, it was prohibited for any but the followers of Christ to hold political office. (If you want to create a Godly society, such a requirement only makes sense).


Godly Leaders for a Godly Nation

In the Articles of Confederation of the United Colonies of New England; May 19, 1643, it begins with the following, "The Articles of Confederation between the Plantations under the Government of the Massachusetts, the Plantations under the Government of New Plymouth, the Plantations under the Government of Connecticut, and the Government of New Haven with the Plantations in Combination therewith: Whereas we all came into these parts of America with one and the same end and aim, namely, to advance the Kingdom of our Lord Jesus Christ and to enjoy the liberties of the Gospel in purity with peace; and whereas in our settling (by a wise providence of God) we are further dispersed upon the sea coasts and rivers than was at first intended, so that we can not according to our desire with convenience communicate in one government and jurisdiction..."

The Delaware constitution of 1776 established a Godly State by requiring, in Art. 22: Every person who shall be chosen a member of either house, or appointed to any office or place of trust . . . shall . . . make and subscribe the following declaration, to wit: "I ________, do profess faith in God the Father, and in Jesus Christ His only Son, and in the Holy Ghost, one God, Blessed for evermore; and I do acknowledge the holy scripture of the Old and New Testaments to be given by divine inspiration." Delaware Constitution, Art. 22 (adopted Sept. 20, 1776), 1 Del. Code Ann. 117 (Michie, 1975). Commended by the U.S. Supreme Court in Rector, etc., of Holy Trinity Church v. U.S., 143 U.S. 457 at 469-70, 12 S.Ct. 511 at 516 (1892). The Constitutions of All the States According to the Latest Amendments, Lexington: Thomas T. Skillman, 1817, p. 181, cited in D. Barton, The Myth of Separation, 23 (6th ed., 1992).

In other words, only followers of Christ could hold any public office under the Delaware constitution. Delaware's oath of office is called a "test oath." It requires the one swearing to affirm - either explicitly or implicitly - a particular religious belief. This was the case in virtually all of the states, in varying degrees of doctrinal specificity. It was done because the Bible was understood to require it. Legislators used to insert Biblical references in the margins of the statute books to prove the validity of their laws (For an example, see John Cotton, "An Abstract of the Laws of New England, as they are Now Established, Printed in London in 1641," Collection of the Massachusetts Historical Society (1798); reprint of 1835 in 2 The Journal of Christian Reconstruction 117, No. 2; Winter, 1975-76, "Symposium on Biblical Law").

Pennsylvania Frame of Government, Section 10. And each member [of the legislature], before he takes his seat, shall make and subscribe the following declaration, viz: "I do believe in one God, the Creator and Governour of the universe, the rewarder of the good and the punisher of the wicked, and I do acknowledge the Scriptures of the Old and New Testament to be given by Divine Inspiration." Sources and Documents Illustrating the American Revolution 1764-1788 and the Formation of the Federal Constitution, 166 (S. Morison, ed., 1923). Cited in Barton, Myth, p. 23.

In 1892, the U.S. Supreme Court announced with pride that the purpose of the Founders of this land was "the establishment of the Christian religion," (Rector, etc., of Holy Trinity Church v. U.S, 143 U.S. 457 at 466, 12 S.Ct. 511 at 514, 36 L.Ed. 226 (1892)) and this ideal was universally held. The men who signed the Constitution understood the Biblical requirements, and they acted in terms of them. Governments were established to spread the Faith.

VIRGINIA CHARTER, 1606: [Issued by King James I] "To make Habitation . . . and to deduce a colony of sundry of our People into that part of America commonly called Virginia . . . in propagating of Christian religion to such People, as yet live in Darkness . . . [to] bring . . . a settled and quiet Government." (Historical Collections: Consisting of State Papers and other Authentic Documents: Intended as Materials for an History of the United States of America, Ebenezer Hazard, ed. Philadelphia: T. Dobson, 1792, Vol. 1, p. 50-51; cited in Barton, page 84).

VIRGINIA CHARTER, 1609: "Because the principal Effect which we can desire or expect of the Action, is the Conversion …of the people in those Parts unto the true Worship of God and Christian Religion." (ibid page 85).

NEW ENGLAND CONFEDERATION, 1643: [Composed of Mass., Conn., New Plymouth, and New Haven] "We all came into these parts of America, with one and the same end and aim, namely, to advance the Kingdom of our Lord Jesus Christ." (Documentary Source Book of American History, 1606-1889, Wm McDonald, ed. NY: Macmillian, 1909, p. 32; cited in Barton, p. 88).

WILLIAM BRADFORD, 1647: [Referring to original Pilgrim intents] "[A] great hope & inward zeall they had of laying some good foundation, or at least to make some way therunto, for ye propagating & advancing ye gospell of ye kingdom of Christ in those remote parts of ye world." (Wm Bradford, History of Plymouth Plantation, Boston: Little, Brown, and Co., 1856, p. 24; cited in Barton, p. 86).

"Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers, and it is the duty as well as the privilege and interest of our Christian nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers." (John Jay, first Chief Justice of the U.S. Supreme Court).

Soon after settling, the Puritans began building great universities to educate young men who would propagate the Gospel; universities such as Harvard. University students were required to do the following:

HARVARD STUDENT PAMPHLET, (Rules for the Students, established by the University Administration) c. 1635:

"2. Let every Student be plainly instructed, and earnestly pressed to consider well the maine end of his life and studies is, to know God and Jesus Christ which is eternal life, Joh.17.3, and therefore to lay Christ in the bottome, as the only foundation of all sound knowledge and Learning. And seeing the Lord only giveth wisedome, Let every one seriously set himselfe by prayer in secret to seeke it of him. Prov 2,3. 3. Every one shall so exercise himselfe in reading the Scriptures twice a day, that he shall be ready to give such an account of his proficiency therein." (Peter Mode, Sourcebook and Bibliographical Guide for American Church History, Menasha, WI: George Banta Pub. Co., 1921, p. 74-75; cited in Barton, p. 91. In 1796, according to David Barton, any Harvard student who doubted the inspiration of Scripture was to be expelled).

The example of New England is striking. The Statute Books of the Government were annotated with Biblical references to show that the laws of the State conformed to the Laws of God. (John Cotton, "An Abstract of the Laws of New England, as they are Now Established, Printed in London in 1641, Collection of the Massachusetts Historical Society (1798); reprint of 1835 in 2 The" Journal of Christian Reconstruction 117, No. 2; Winter, 1975-76, "Symposium on Biblical Law").

NEW HAVEN COLONY LAW, 1644: "The judicial laws of God as they were delivered by Moses…[are to] be a rule to all the courts in this jurisdiction." (Russ Walton, Biblical Principles of Importance to Godly Christians, NH: Plymouth Rock Foundation, 1984, p. 356; Barton, p. 88).

NORTH CAROLINA CHARTER, 1662 (QUAKER): "Excited with a laudable and pious zeal for the propagation of the Christian faith . . . in the parts of America not yet cultivated or planted, and only inhabited by . . . people, who have no knowledge of Almighty God." (North Carolina History, Hugh Talmage Lefler, ed., Chapel Hill: Univ. of NC Press, 1934, 1956, p. 16; cited in Barton, p. 86).

RHODE ISLAND CHARTER, 1663: [Granted by King Charles II] "That they pursuing with peace and loyal mindes, their sober, serious and religious intentions . . . in the holy Christian faith . . . a most flourishing civil state may stand, and best be maintained grounded upon gospel principles." (David Barton, The Myth of Separation, p. 87).

The Biblical vision for society is not understood in our day because people in our day are utterly unfamiliar with this passionate desire to establish all people's action - including governments - on "gospel principles." Today there is a notion - as pervasive as it is heretical - that the "gospel" has nothing to do with Godly, law-abiding behavior.

NEW JERSEY SEAL, 1665: "Righteousness exalteth a nation." - Prov. 14:34

PENNSYLVANIA GOVERNMENT, 1682: " . . . Make and establish such laws as shall best preserve true Christian and civil liberty, in all opposition to all unchristian . . . practices." (Peter Mode, Sourcebook and Bibliographical Guide for American Church History, Menasha, WI: George Banta Pub. Co., 1921, p. 163; cited in Barton, p. 89).

PENNSYLVANIA'S FIRST LEGISLATIVE ACT, 1682: "Whereas the glory of Almighty God and the good of Mankind, is the reason and end of government, and therefore, government in itself is a venerable Ordinance of God, therefore, it is the purpose of civil government to establish such laws as shall best preserve true Christian and Civil Liberty, in opposition to all Unchristian, Licentious, and unjust practices, (Whereby God may have his due, and Caesar his due, and the people their due), from tyranny and oppression . . . ." (Charter to William Penn, and Duke of Yorke's Book of Laws (Harrisburg, PA: 1879). The Preamble and Chapter I of the Great Law can be found in, Remember William Penn: 1644-1944; (Harrisburg, PA: The William Penn Tercentenary Committee, 1944), pp. 85-86; cited in America's Christian History: The Untold Story, by Gary DeMar (Atlanta, GA. American Vision 1995), p. 77).

The Founders of this nation attempted to carve out a Gospel Garden out of a pagan wilderness. Two hundred years of flourishing charity, education, agriculture, science, and gospel preaching would rise up and totally denounce the view that Government is supposed to be neutral or secular.

CONTINENTAL CONGRESS, 1776: [May 16, anticipating full-scale war with Britain] "The Congress . . . Desirous . . . to have people of all ranks and degrees duly impressed with a solemn sense of God's superintending providence, and of their duty, devoutly to rely . . . on his aid and direction . . . Do earnestly recommend . . . a day of humiliation, fasting, and prayer; that we may, with united hearts, confess and bewail our manifold sins and transgressions, and, by a sincere repentance and amendment of life . . . and, through the merits and mediation of Jesus Christ, obtain his pardon and forgiveness." (Journals of the Continental Congress at Vol 2, 1775, p. 192; cited in Barton, p. 103).

CONTINENTAL CONGRESS, 1777: [Calling for a day of thanksgiving and prayer for the victory at Saratoga] "Forasmuch as it is the indispensable duty of all men to adore the superintending providence of Almighty God; to acknowledge with gratitude their obligation to him for benefits received . . . [to offer] humble and earnest supplication that it may please God, through the merits of Jesus Christ, mercifully to forgive and blot [our sins] out of remembrance . . . and to prosper the means of religion for the promotion and enlargement of that kingdom which consisteth 'in righteousness, peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.'" (Journals of the Continental Congress at Vol 18, p. 950; cited in Barton, p. 105).

CONTINENTAL CONGRESS, 1780: [Concerning the discovery of Benedict Arnold as a traitor] "It is therefore recommended to the several states . . . a day of public thanksgiving and prayer . . . to offer our fervent supplications to the God of grace . . . to cause the knowledge of Christianity to spread over all the earth." (Journals of the Continental Congress at Vol.18, pp. 950-951; cited in Barton, p. 106).

JOHN HANrooster, 1783: [Massachusetts governor, proclaiming a day of thanksgiving for the war's end] "I do by and with the Advice of the Council appoint [11 Dec. 1783] to be religiously observed as a Day of Thanksgiving and Prayer, that all the People may then assemble to celebrate . . . that he hath been pleased to continue to us the Light of the blessed Gospel; . . . That we also offer up fervent Supplications . . . to cause pure Religion and Virtue to flourish . . . and to fill the World with his glory." (Proclamation of John Hanrooster from Boston, November 8, 1783, from an original in the Evans collection, #18025, by the American Antiquarian Soc., cited in Barton, p. 107).

GEORGE WASHINGTON, 1783: [End of the war, to all state governors] "I now make it my earnest prayer, that God would have you, and the State over which you preside, in his holy protection . . . that he would most graciously be pleased to dispose us all to do justice, to love mercy, and to demean ourselves with that charity, humility, and pacific temper of mind, which were the characteristics of the Divine Author of our blessed religion, and without an humble imitation of whose example in these things, we can never hope to be a happy nation." (George Washington, The Writings of Washington, Jared Sparks, ed. Boston: American Stationers' Co., 1838, Vol 18, p. 452, cited in Barton, p. 99).

U.S. SUPREME COURT, 1892: "Our laws and our institutions must necessarily be based upon and embody the teachings of the Redeemer of mankind. It is impossible that it should be otherwise. In this sense and to this extent, our civilizations and our institutions are emphatically Christian." (Holy Trinity Church v. U.S., 143 U.S. 457 (1892); cited by Barton, America's Godly Heritage, pp. 10-11).

U.S. SUPREME COURT, 1890: "The term 'religion' has reference to one's view of his relations to his Creator, and to the obligations they impose for reverence for his being and character, and of obedience to his will. It is often confused with the cultus or form of worship of a particular sect, but it is distinguishable from the latter . . . . It was never intended or supposed that the [first] amendment could be invoked as a protection against the legislation for the punishment of acts inimicable to the peace, good order and morals of society . . . . However free the exercise of religion may be, it must be subordinate to the criminal laws of the country passed with reference to actions regarded by general consent as properly the subjects of punitive legislation . . . . Probably never in the history of this country has it been seriously contended that the whole punitive power of the government for acts, recognized by the general consent of the Christian world in modern times as proper matters for prohibitory legislation, must be suspended in order that the tenets of a religious sect encouraging crime may be carried out without hindrance." (Davis v. Beason, 133 U.S. 333, 341-42 (1890); as quoted in John W. Whitehead, The Second American Revolution, David C. Cook Publishing Co., 1982, pg. 221-3).

MARYLAND SUPREME COURT, 1799: "Religion is of general and public concern, and on its support depend, in great measure, the peace and good order of government, the safety and happiness of the people. By our form of government, the Christian religion is the established religion; and all sects and denominations of Christians are placed upon the same equal footing, and are equally entitled to protection in their religious liberty." (Runkel v. Winemiller, 4 Harris and McHenry 276, 288 (Sup. Ct. Md. 1799); cited in Barton, p. 64).

The Puritans who founded this land defended Christian Theocracy and established Theocratic (God-honoring) systems of government. The idea that governments should allow God to rule (Theo-cracy) human society was ubiquitous. If Gary North is right and a Secular Humanist conspiracy attempted to overthrow this Christian consensus through Article VI of the Constitution, the First Amendment of the Constitution attempted to keep that from happening.

SUPREME COURT JUSTICE JOSEPH STORY on the First Amendment: "We are not to attribute this prohibition of a national religious establishment to an indifference to religion in general, and especially to Christianity (which none could hold in more reverence, than the framers of the Constitution) . . . Probably at the time of the adoption of the Constitution, and of the first amendment to it . . . . the general if not the universal sentiment in America was, that Christianity ought to receive encouragement from the state so far as was not incompatible with the private rights of conscience and the freedom of religious worship. An attempt to level all religions, and to make it a matter of state policy to hold all in utter indifference, would have created universal disapprobation, if not universal indignation . . . The real object of the amendment was not to countenance, much less to advance, Mahometanism, or Judaism, or infidelity [secularism], by prostrating Christianity; but exclude all rivalry among Christian sects, and to prevent any national ecclesiastical establishment which should give to a hierarchy the exclusive patronage of the national government." (Commentaries on the Constitution of the United States, 2:593-95; cited in The Second American Revolution, pg. 96, John W. Whitehead, 1982, David C. Cook Publishing Co. Also cited in The Myth of Separation, David Barton, p.32, Wallbuilders: Aledo, TX 76005).

All of these voices are summed up in the Opinion of the U.S. Supreme Court in the case of Holy Trinity Church v. U.S (1892). There is no other legitimate purpose for any human action than the advancement of the Kingdom of God. Patriotism (advancing the interests of a political coalition) is wrong; Humanism (advancing your own personal interests) is wrong; Satanism (advancing demonic interests) is wrong. Since all action runs to some purpose, if the purpose is not the building of God's Kingdom, then it is to build a rival Kingdom. There is no neutrality. The State cannot be impartial and non-religious.

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Originally posted by NoCents

King George, still has half the world duped with his writings. Way to keep them the herd rounded up buddy.

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Originally posted by wildjo

It's offensive and unconstitutional.

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