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JustSayNoToFiat
Penny Pincher Member
110 Posts |
 Posted - 02/26/2010 : 05:35:43
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Poll Question:
Let's say you were in charge of a charity event at work where you had collected a fair amount of coins. You were given the money to obtain additional goods for the beneficiary of the event.
Assuming that you looked at the coins, you notice a couple silver dimes, nickels, copper pennies, etc.
You know, from being a real cent'er, that these coins have a market value higher than face.
What would you do?
Is there a fiduciary duty to pay market value for the found coins, since you are otherwise enriching yourself?
Note: The amount of Ag/Cu is not overly significant (i.e. no 300 Bens peeking up at you, prompting you to yell "THIS IS SPARTA!!!").
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It's Half Time...all the time. |
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Shattered
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
523 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2010 : 05:46:32
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| Face value. The charity will be spending it not selling it. |
"I need metal in my life, just like an eagle needs to fly."
-Joseph DeMaio : Die For Metal |
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Mcprice302
Penny Collector Member
USA
404 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2010 : 06:43:52
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| Thats great being involved with the charity. I dont feel like you would be obligated to pay anything more than face for anything that you wanted in the coins. Why? The orginization probably doesn't even know about silver or copper and would just spend them anyways. Trade out what you want and as long as you dont short the replacement, I see nothing wrong with doing that. You did afterall put in the thought and work of looking for them when no one else would have even cared. |
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cptindy
Penny Hoarding Member
572 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2010 : 06:48:47
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Considering this is a charity event of which you have been deemed responsible for the spending of raised funds, of which your credentials have been sequestered to ensure safe passage of said transactions, it puts one in a precarious position. It would be quite easy to just accept face value as the expected totals but also presents an opportunity to rise above.
I would say it depends on the amount of increase to its holdings based on the time needed to transact. If we are talking about a small fraction (1% of totals) then it seems reasonable to just replace. If said monies would somehow add buying power and add a benefit to the ones this charity intends to support well, I would use it in accordance with its intentions.
Are we feeding and clothing people here? Or are we providing objects that have no real humanitarian benefit?
Edited this in:
I am finding it interesting the posts being made here! Interesting to the point of repulsed. The fact that an educated individual puts themselves into the opportune scenario in the name of charity to extract its spoils! Then can justify it to themselves is amazing!
This is why I have a distaste for organized religion!
There is a business environment and non business environment.
Business is business and to me is like boxing. May the best man win!
Charity should be non business mentality! Meaning you are not attempting to out maneuver or manipulate your opponent. Because they are not your opponent they are a teammate! |
"It is the nature of the human species to reject what is true but unpleasant and to embrace what is obviously false but comforting"
" The average man doesn't want to be free. He wants to be safe."
H.L. Mencken
http://silver-news-today.com/ |
Edited by - cptindy on 02/26/2010 18:58:55 |
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Country
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
3121 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2010 : 07:41:49
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I think it boils down to your relationship with the charity. If you have strong feelings about this particular charity, you should step up and give that charity full market value for the SILVERs. However, if you are doing this from a pure business perspective, I would take the SILVERs and replace with face value when you CASH in the coins for the charity.
I think most of the time, you have a strong relationship to the charity's viewpoint because that is why you were involved with them in the first place. That is why I chose replacing the SILVER coins with their fair market value. |
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The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at-any-price, peace-at-any-price, safety-first instead of duty-first, the love of soft living, and the get-rich-quick theory of life.
– Theodore Roosevelt
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AGCoinHunter
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
685 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2010 : 08:24:53
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| Face |
"All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent."
-Thomas Jefferson
"There is no difference between communism and socialism, except in the means of achieving the same ultimate end: communism proposes to enslave men by force, socialism—by vote. It is merely the difference between murder and suicide." - Ayn Rand
________________________________________________
Lenin: Class-based International Socialism
Hitler: Race-based National Socialism
Obama: Class- and Race-based Post-National Socialism
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thogey
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1617 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2010 : 09:08:47
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I said market, Being reminded of the guy who drops gold dollars into the salvation army bin.
You have to assume the donater intended for the donation to be used for it's max value. |
Come to the new and improved realcent: http://realcent.org
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Ardent Listener
Administrator
USA
4841 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2010 : 10:31:46
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Let's twist that a little more and say you were collecting for the Salvation Army and someone dropped a $50 American Gold Eagle into the pot? It has happened. What would you do? The giver obviously intended for the the charity to benefit by more than $50.00.
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Think positive. |
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Mikep2020
Penny Collector Member
USA
402 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2010 : 10:44:00
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| If it was a silver dime, quarter or half, then I would trade for face value. If it was a morgan/peace or any type of gold coin, I would trade for actual value. |
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Ardent Listener
Administrator
USA
4841 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2010 : 10:56:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Mikep2020
If it was a silver dime, quarter or half, then I would trade for face value. If it was a morgan/peace or any type of gold coin, I would trade for actual value.
A good rule of thumb one might use is that if the coin doesn't have the general appearance of those currently in circulation then give the charity actual value. But in reality, if I was trying to help out a charity I would give it actual value anyway. Sometimes its not the value of a rare coin found but the fact that you found it which is most important. |
Realcent.forumco.com disclosure. Please read.
All posts either by the members, moderators, and the administration of http://realcent.forumco.com are for your edification and amusement only. It is not the intent of realcent.forumco.com or its host to provide investment, medical, matrimonial, legal, security or tax advice and nothing posted here should be considered to be so. All rights reserved.
Think positive. |
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Neckro
1000+ Penny Miser Member
Saudi Arabia
2080 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2010 : 10:57:52
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| I'd doubt they'd know its value, they'd just deposit it. |
Trolling is an art. |
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uthminsta
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1872 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2010 : 11:31:07
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I have been given this opportunity dozens of times over my years as a youth minister. But one benefit of this for me, is that "the cause" is usually someone or something that I MYSELF have chosen for us as a church to give to. So yeah, I have to admit that puts me in a unique situation compared to some other circumstances. I fully buy into what these people are doing, or I wouldn't ask hundreds of kids to give money to it.
So anyway, we challenge the children/teens to bring in all their change to raise a certain amount for a certain mission or charity... and I am always happily in charge of taking them to the bank to be "cashed in." I take a day with them at my house to pull anything I want, and always come up with some fun stuff. Never any drop-jaw awesome stuff like gold or Morgan dollars or anything. But I always hold off donating to that cause, until this day. I replace what I find with a more-than-fair amount over face value. It's because THAT is my donation to the cause. I get some stuff with collector value, and enjoy giving to something that we (the kids, the church and I) believe in.
Oh, one other thing. Until now, I haven't sorted out coppers as part of this process. There's a MASSIVE amount of cents involved any time you challenge kids to bring in coin. Will have to give you reports on the percentages the next time we do this! |
Come to the new and improved realcent: http://realcent.org
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wolvesdad
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
2164 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2010 : 12:31:52
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Ethically(as the question was posed) it is fair/good to simply exchange at face value anything you pull from it. MARKED silver rolls($5 roll of silver dimes marked "silver" etc) should be bought at the full price an honest local coin dealer would pay. Same with any encased or still packaged metals or rare coins. (If it was in a PCGS holder, they meant for it to get more than face value!!!)
But, with the regular 'mixed in circulation' silver and copper. If there happened to be 17 silver dimes in $1000 face of change, any good hearted person would toss in another $5, $10 or $15 for the charity's benefit. I wouldn't try to 'buy' the copper because you can get those from the bank anyway, and they involve a lot of work taking them out. But if you got a high percentage (40% or better) and felt like giving to the cause, GREAT as well!! |
"May your percentages ever increase!" |
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knibloe
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1066 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2010 : 15:37:54
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I would replace with fair market value for the silver.
I would not offer any additional for the Cu |
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johnbrickner
Penny Pincher Member
154 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2010 : 15:41:30
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| Fiduciary duty aside, if you take the metal you MUST pay full value to the charity. You must assume the doner WAS AWARE of the metal/numismatic value of the donation. Bottom line, the coins belong to the chairty, not you. |
"I Killed the Bank" from the tombstone of Andrew Jackson |
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cecropia_moth
Penny Pincher Member
USA
222 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2010 : 16:07:44
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I truly believe the random silver dime or quarter or 40% half dollar that ends up in the charity bin are just that...random. Look how we find these in bank and customer wrapped rolls. IMO these should be pulled and replaced only at face value (as these were not donated to be recognized at MV or numis value anyways). Now for any gold coins, silver dollars, marked silver rolls, etc., etc. I believe that it is the DONOR'S responsibility to inform the individual running the charity drive that these items were donated. If you are informed by the DONOR, then obviously the DONOR expects the charity to benefit to the full extent of the market value of said items. It would then be your fiduciary responsibility to liquidate (or buy them at full market price yourself) these items and contribute those proceeds to the charity. Going back to the indiviadual random small denom silvers that might show up...let's face it...NO charity is going to sort through potentially thousands of coins to find a few that have a MV above FV. Those coins would be run through a bank counter and the charity would be paid FACE. You could also consider the random find of a silver dime or quarter as your compensation for doing something good and running the charity coin drive.
Jeff |
Edited by - cecropia_moth on 02/26/2010 16:11:02 |
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JobIII
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1507 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2010 : 16:15:25
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I'd take all the money to AC and then replace it with some of my winnings.  |
Selling Copper cents. $0 FV available at 1.4xFV. Also interested in trading for wheat pennies and other coins Please pm me for requests or inquiries.
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uthminsta
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1872 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2010 : 16:30:03
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quote:
Originally posted by knibloe I would replace with fair market value for the silver. I would not offer any additional for the Cu
I like this, at least for my situation. There's a very small profit margin involved with copper. Silver is an easy 10x plus... |
Come to the new and improved realcent: http://realcent.org
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forrestph
New Member
USA
13 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2010 : 18:23:34
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My opinion is be charitable and pay market value. You could do this by documenting how many your taking out and why. Then sell them and returning the excess funds to the charity.
Why are you there in the first place? Just for access to the coins or to do mankind some good?
PS This opinion only applies to charities. Everything else is fair game. |
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AGgressive Metal
Administrator
USA
1937 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2010 : 18:48:07
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| I'd say replace with an equal FV plus a percentage of the market value. That way you are helping everyone. The charity gets more money than they otherwise would and you are compensated for your effort of sorting. |
And he that hath lyberte ought to kepe hit wel / For nothyng is better than lyberte / For lyberte shold not be wel sold for alle the gold and syluer of all the world.
-Caxton's edition of Aesop's Fables, 1484 |
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fb101
Administrator
USA
2856 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2010 : 18:54:18
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| I'd go with the face value unless it was a significant amount. Yell SPARTA and split 50/50. |
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slickeast
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
2533 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2010 : 22:27:20
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| Buy ALL of the coins from them. Just run them through a coin counter and deposit FRN's . Then all of the coins are yours. If you find some silver, you can sell on the forum and donate the extra money you made to the charity. |
You don't have to be the BEST you just have to be.......SLICK
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knibloe
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1066 Posts |
Posted - 02/27/2010 : 08:41:57
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quote:
Originally posted by slickeast
Buy ALL of the coins from them. Just run them through a coin counter and deposit FRN's . Then all of the coins are yours. If you find some silver, you can sell on the forum and donate the extra money you made to the charity.
This is a good solution except for the gold coins that you won't get anyway. |
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JustSayNoToFiat
Penny Pincher Member
110 Posts |
Posted - 02/27/2010 : 09:26:09
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quote:
Originally posted by cptindy
I am finding it interesting the posts being made here! Interesting to the point of repulsed. The fact that an educated individual puts themselves into the opportune scenario in the name of charity to extract its spoils! Then can justify it to themselves is amazing!
...Charity should be non business mentality! Meaning you are not attempting to out maneuver or manipulate your opponent. Because they are not your opponent they are a teammate!
I'm not sure if this is directed at me (the OP of the thread) or at some of the other members on here. |
It's Half Time...all the time. |
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slickeast
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
2533 Posts |
Posted - 02/27/2010 : 09:29:14
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| I am thinking of talking to the private school my daughter goes to about a penny drive. I would go to the school every morning with my coin counter and count the coins in the office, then I would write a check for the amount. The coins would be mine and I can look for silver and sort copper. They would have to use someone in the office to go to the bank and dump into the coin machines and they are not going to look for anything. |
You don't have to be the BEST you just have to be.......SLICK
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JustSayNoToFiat
Penny Pincher Member
110 Posts |
Posted - 02/27/2010 : 09:45:29
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OK, with almost 50 people voting, I am going to give a few more specifics:
A) The charity was a humane society.
B) My company chose this as a charity of the month to support with needed items.
C) My relationship was of large donor, impromptu fund raiser, and unofficial purchasing agent for our company towards this charity. I spent about 80 bucks on supplies and challenged the rest of my office and my bosses to double up on my donation and I would kick in another $50 towards the cause. I managed to raise almost $200 extra from them by doing this. My boss gave me the paper money the office raised, plus the money in the spare change bucket to procure additional items. He did have our security count the change before he handed it to me.
D) Along with the typical clad coins, there was a single Ag coin of the same type and style as is in circulation, along with a small handful of non-wheat Cu coins, sitting in the change bucket.
E) The coin bucket is at a security checkpoint and people routinely dump their change in there as a matter of convenience before passing through the metal detectors. |
It's Half Time...all the time. |
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Poll:Ethics Question
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