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AGgressive Metal
Administrator
USA
1937 Posts |
 Posted - 02/02/2010 : 21:38:46
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Does anyone keep physical foreign currency as an emergency hedge in the event of a dollar collapse - or rapid decline - or extended bank holiday? Keep in mind that the majority of modern Americans have no concept of the value of precious metals or how to use them in day to day transactions. Most people, however, do know what a Canadian Dollar, British Pound, Japanese Yen, or Euro is - even if they don't know their exact value. The downside is that all fiat currencies experience inflation, but I'm not talking about taking a large position, just having $500 or so of Forex on hand for contingency scenarios.
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And he that hath lyberte ought to kepe hit wel / For nothyng is better than lyberte / For lyberte shold not be wel sold for alle the gold and syluer of all the world.
-Caxton's edition of Aesop's Fables, 1484 |
Edited by - AGgressive Metal on 02/02/2010 21:39:19 |
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Bluegill
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1964 Posts |
Posted - 02/02/2010 : 22:02:37
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Aside from my Canadian Cu and Ni, I have several hundred dollars in Canadian coins. Mostly dimes and plated nickels.
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Nickelmeister
Penny Hoarding Member
Canada
588 Posts |
Posted - 02/02/2010 : 23:09:19
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| I got lots of Canadian money :) |
www.WinnipegGoldBuyer.com
Standing offer for sale of quality, second-hand solid gold jewellery:
<$100 USD worth - spot +25%, plus actual shipping
$101-500 worth - spot +20%, plus actual shipping
$501-1,000 worth - spot +15%, plus actual shipping
$1,001+ worth - spot +10%, plus actual shipping |
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billo
Penny Collector Member
293 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2010 : 01:45:42
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| Have some Euro. (I was very interested in Forex, could be cautious and simply keep money there instead of play markets with leverage, but there's always extra risk of losing money if the company goes under, plus in a disaster it might be impossible to withdraw, so I decided against it. But the exchange rates are lovely.) |
That's not a dollar, mate...THIS is a dollar.
http://www.sendcongressapinkslip.com/ |
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jadedragon
Administrator
Canada
3788 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2010 : 01:47:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Nickelmeister
I got lots of Canadian money :)
And I don't have enough Canadian money :) Want to send some my way?
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“The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” – George Bernard Shaw.
Why Copper Bullion ~~~ Interview with Silver Bullion Producer Market Harmony
Passive Income blog |
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Lemon Thrower
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1588 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2010 : 05:39:44
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| i don't think this is practical. there are fewer people who would accept fx than pms, unless you are close to the border. also, all paper money has the same problem, just to varying degrees. there is not one that is safe. you are better to prep than to buy fx's |
Buying:
Peace/Morgan G+ at $15.00
copper cents at 1.3X
wheat pennies at 3X
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AGgressive Metal
Administrator
USA
1937 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2010 : 08:55:49
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| I can make arguments for it one way or another, but really I just like collecting it and it tends to add up. Another "pro" argument is that $500 in silver is kind of hard to get through a checkpoint or airport without suspicion, whereas I can stuff 5 100 Euro notes in my wallet and no one notices. Obviously PMs are better overall. |
And he that hath lyberte ought to kepe hit wel / For nothyng is better than lyberte / For lyberte shold not be wel sold for alle the gold and syluer of all the world.
-Caxton's edition of Aesop's Fables, 1484 |
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Lemon Thrower
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1588 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2010 : 09:14:12
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quote:
Originally posted by AGgressive Metal
I can make arguments for it one way or another, but really I just like collecting it and it tends to add up. Another "pro" argument is that $500 in silver is kind of hard to get through a checkpoint or airport without suspicion, whereas I can stuff 5 100 Euro notes in my wallet and no one notices. Obviously PMs are better overall.
you could hold $50K in gold in your fist though.
Doug Casey:
the dollar is an an I owe you nothing.
the euro is a who owes you nothing.
every country is trying to devalue against each other, and ultimately it wont work so they will have to devalue against pm's. listen to the jim rickards interview on king world news this week. |
Buying:
Peace/Morgan G+ at $15.00
copper cents at 1.3X
wheat pennies at 3X
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PennySaved
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1720 Posts |
Posted - 02/05/2010 : 10:59:46
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Have you guys seen that FOREX commercial where they have cartoons of 3 central banks (there are flags of the U.S, Japan and EU) printing money? The banks are spitting out money like crazy.
It would encourage me to buy more precious metals than invest in foreign currency with the outflow of printed money. |
SELLING COPPER PENNIES 1.4X FACE SHIPPED......“I sincerely believe that banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies, and that the principles of spending money to be paid by posterity, under the name of funding, is but swindling futurity on a large scale” Thomas Jefferson |
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HoardCopperByTheTon
Administrator
USA
6807 Posts |
Posted - 02/07/2010 : 12:45:39
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Paper is paper. If you want really pretty paper try some of the obsolete bank notes printed in the US. I have been collecting those for several years.. even though they are not backed by anything, and the issuers are mostly long gone.
I have quite a few Canadian coins.. but I ain't sending them to jade.. yet.  |
If your percentages are low.. just sort more. If your percentages are high.. just sort more.
Now selling Copper pennies. 1.6x plus shipping. Limited amounts available. |
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theo
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
588 Posts |
Posted - 02/07/2010 : 20:14:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Lemon Thrower
i don't think this is practical. there are fewer people who would accept fx than pms, unless you are close to the border. also, all paper money has the same problem, just to varying degrees. there is not one that is safe. you are better to prep than to buy fx's
You're right that acquiring large amounts of foriegn currency (especially paper) should not be considered a primary tool for hedging against a weak dollar. However, given the U.S. dollar's status as global reserve currency, it is probably significantly over-valued compared to the other major currencies, with the possible exception of the Euro. Therefore trying to acquire a few hundred Canadian or even Austrian dollars isn't bad strategy. Considering that most Americans seem to attach a low value to foriegn currency, it is possible to acquire it at a discount. I've been told by a few bank tellers that they throw any foriegns coins away. |
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AGgressive Metal
Administrator
USA
1937 Posts |
Posted - 02/07/2010 : 20:46:52
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| Once again, I am not talking about "large amounts" - I am talking about something for the first 2-5 days post-dollar collapse that you can change at an airport or something. Wouldn't you have liked to have had $200 USD if you were in Argentina? If you rely 100% on gold and silver, you will be relying on the prospect that your gold buyer is going to have cash on hand post-collapse OR that non-coin dealers are going to start taking gold immediately. I personally like having a couple hundred Euros and Canadian dollars in the safe - I do not consider that an investment or a large position - its just another tool in the monetary tool box to make transactions with if something happens to the USD. |
And he that hath lyberte ought to kepe hit wel / For nothyng is better than lyberte / For lyberte shold not be wel sold for alle the gold and syluer of all the world.
-Caxton's edition of Aesop's Fables, 1484 |
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No82s
Penny Pincher Member
USA
198 Posts |
Posted - 02/07/2010 : 21:18:16
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| In the event of a dollar collapse I can see having some Canadian dollars stashed if you live in the northern tier. Otherwise I don't know what you have elsewhere. Euros? Who wants them or even knows what they are? Pesos? Get serious. PMs are still your best bet I think. |
The difference between an optimist and a pessimist is that the pessimist is better informed. |
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jadedragon
Administrator
Canada
3788 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2010 : 00:45:37
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| You must be logged in to see this link. is my take on this. I stock currencies I can use because of where my wife is from or where I do business. I don't really consider it a big hedge but a little diversification is good. |
“The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” – George Bernard Shaw.
Why Copper Bullion ~~~ Interview with Silver Bullion Producer Market Harmony
Passive Income blog |
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PennySaved
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1720 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2010 : 02:14:51
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| Wouldnt you recommend coin Euros or Canadian dollars vs paper?; at least you would have some base metal to barter with if all paper currencies became pretty much worthless |
SELLING COPPER PENNIES 1.4X FACE SHIPPED......“I sincerely believe that banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies, and that the principles of spending money to be paid by posterity, under the name of funding, is but swindling futurity on a large scale” Thomas Jefferson |
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billo
Penny Collector Member
293 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2010 : 03:59:17
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| Historically, foreign notes have been used successfully during hyperinflation disasters. This is not just a "what-if" idea, it has precedence. It's pretty unlikely for all paper currencies to drop out at the same time. Currencies and states have life cycles. PMs are special and fiat is unwise, but that doesn't magically erase the proven usage of currency hedging. The recognition aspect is a valid consideration, but then again many sheeple don't know PM value either. If dollar=0 then people will start learning about everything else pretty fast. It's all happened before and it'll happen again until the world ends. So Aggressive, no need to look for validation, it's already there. |
That's not a dollar, mate...THIS is a dollar.
http://www.sendcongressapinkslip.com/ |
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AGgressive Metal
Administrator
USA
1937 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2010 : 08:06:25
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quote:
Originally posted by PennySaved
Wouldnt you recommend coin Euros or Canadian dollars vs paper?; at least you would have some base metal to barter with if all paper currencies became pretty much worthless
I suppose, but not for what I am talking about. I am not talking about something that will SUSTAIN you during a long-term collapse. I am talking about something that will help get you out of dodge during the first few days of serious US dollar problems. If your plan during collapse is to hunker down in your mid-western or Appalachian homestead then this point is mute. In my situation I may need to fly or use a train or something in order to get where I need to be. Liquidity = mobility. But if you are a home-owner with a well-stocked pantry and a family, you are not going to be evacuating from anywhere.
And I have oodles of foreign coins if you want some though |
And he that hath lyberte ought to kepe hit wel / For nothyng is better than lyberte / For lyberte shold not be wel sold for alle the gold and syluer of all the world.
-Caxton's edition of Aesop's Fables, 1484 |
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AGgressive Metal
Administrator
USA
1937 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2010 : 08:12:36
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quote:
Originally posted by billo
Historically, foreign notes have been used successfully during hyperinflation disasters. This is not just a "what-if" idea, it has precedence. .... It's all happened before and it'll happen again until the world ends.
Exactly - I just think some people are thinking that a dollar hyper-inflation will take everyone else with us since we are the reserve currency. I feel that by the time we have double-digit price inflation (as opposed to "real" inflation which is already high) that most foreign central banks will see the writing on the wall and make preps as best they can.
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And he that hath lyberte ought to kepe hit wel / For nothyng is better than lyberte / For lyberte shold not be wel sold for alle the gold and syluer of all the world.
-Caxton's edition of Aesop's Fables, 1484 |
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Lemon Thrower
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1588 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2010 : 08:57:12
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quote:
Originally posted by billo
Historically, foreign notes have been used successfully during hyperinflation disasters. This is not just a "what-if" idea, it has precedence. It's pretty unlikely for all paper currencies to drop out at the same time. Currencies and states have life cycles. PMs are special and fiat is unwise, but that doesn't magically erase the proven usage of currency hedging. The recognition aspect is a valid consideration, but then again many sheeple don't know PM value either. If dollar=0 then people will start learning about everything else pretty fast. It's all happened before and it'll happen again until the world ends. So Aggressive, no need to look for validation, it's already there.
PM's have been used during hyperinflations as well.
Neither have been used in the U.S.
Also, neither have been used when all countries faced devaluation or hyperinflation simultaneously. what do you think will happen to canada or europe if the u.s. goes kaput?
if you live in a state that borders canada or mexico, then folks in the u.s. might accept fx during an emergency. i still think they are more likley to accept barter items like food, water, equipemnt, guns ammo, etc. and PM's before accepting cdn or pesos imho unless they are very close to the border. i dont' see people in chicago parting with food or ammo for cdn or euro.
btw, the euro is likely to fracture before the dollar not because of the inferior creditworthiness of the EU but rather because their political union is inferior. you are either going to have (1) germans subsidizing greeks, portuguese, italians, spaniards, etc., or (2) some sort of fracture. The fracture could be an expulsion of the PIIGS, a north/south spilt, or the exit of the strong countries from the EU (e.g. germany, denmark, netherlands, etc). the latter is not on a lot of folks' radar but i'm told is easier to pull of then expelling weak countries.
another possibility is some sort of one world currency. sinclair has an excellent article on his site about this this morning. |
Buying:
Peace/Morgan G+ at $15.00
copper cents at 1.3X
wheat pennies at 3X
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AGgressive Metal
Administrator
USA
1937 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2010 : 10:14:34
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I am biased because I have read FA Hayek's essay "Choice in Currency; A Way to Stop Inflation" and I have dreams of people using forex and PMs on a regular basis as a method of holding the Fed in check.
Edit: what I mean is, in the essay he argues that if Central Banks had to compete for users, they would not inflate so much, because they would be afraid people would just use a better currency instead. He argues that we can have fiat, so long as all the fiat competes not just internationally, but everywhere and always (and with PMs too, by implication, since there would be no legal tender laws). |
And he that hath lyberte ought to kepe hit wel / For nothyng is better than lyberte / For lyberte shold not be wel sold for alle the gold and syluer of all the world.
-Caxton's edition of Aesop's Fables, 1484 |
Edited by - AGgressive Metal on 02/08/2010 10:17:11 |
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Lemon Thrower
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1588 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2010 : 10:45:32
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quote:
Originally posted by AGgressive Metal
I am biased because I have read FA Hayek's essay "Choice in Currency; A Way to Stop Inflation" and I have dreams of people using forex and PMs on a regular basis as a method of holding the Fed in check.
Edit: what I mean is, in the essay he argues that if Central Banks had to compete for users, they would not inflate so much, because they would be afraid people would just use a better currency instead. He argues that we can have fiat, so long as all the fiat competes not just internationally, but everywhere and always (and with PMs too, by implication, since there would be no legal tender laws).javascript:hyperlink();
i haven't read that essay but i would probably agree with it. we had competition in currencies after Jackson abolished the 2nd Bank of the U.S. and before the creation of the Federal reserve. Martin Armstrong wrote a good history of this here:You must be logged in to see this link.
you basically had banks issuing their own paper and competing against each other.
the reason i disagree with your strategy is that you assume paper issued by other central banks is superior to FRN's? FRN's are basically a claim on a pool of treasury bills and bonds and toxic MBS. FX is basically a claim to a bunch of FRN's. You don't really accomplish anything by substituting one brand of fiat paper for another. |
Buying:
Peace/Morgan G+ at $15.00
copper cents at 1.3X
wheat pennies at 3X
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PennySaved
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1720 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2010 : 11:42:00
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When you say one world currency, it sends chills up my spine. I would love it for the EU to break up and Germany, France, and Great Britain detach themselves. However, with the globilization and "New World Order" montra, I suspect we would be going more towards a one world currency.
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SELLING COPPER PENNIES 1.4X FACE SHIPPED......“I sincerely believe that banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies, and that the principles of spending money to be paid by posterity, under the name of funding, is but swindling futurity on a large scale” Thomas Jefferson |
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Lemon Thrower
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1588 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2010 : 11:49:19
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quote:
Originally posted by PennySaved
When you say one world currency, it sends chills up my spine.
You must be logged in to see this link. |
Buying:
Peace/Morgan G+ at $15.00
copper cents at 1.3X
wheat pennies at 3X
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PennySaved
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1720 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2010 : 11:55:23
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My personal feeling is you combine a people economically 1st and before you know it politically they are combined also.
That is how it started with the EU; at 1st it was just a joining economically of the European nations but now there is an EU parliment, army, constitution etc.
If we go with a one world currency, I think it will be a step towards one world government. Then goodbye sovereignty of the individual countries. |
SELLING COPPER PENNIES 1.4X FACE SHIPPED......“I sincerely believe that banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies, and that the principles of spending money to be paid by posterity, under the name of funding, is but swindling futurity on a large scale” Thomas Jefferson |
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Lemon Thrower
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1588 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2010 : 13:17:11
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quote:
Originally posted by PennySaved
My personal feeling is you combine a people economically 1st and before you know it politically they are combined also.
That is how it started with the EU; at 1st it was just a joining economically of the European nations but now there is an EU parliment, army, constitution etc.
If we go with a one world currency, I think it will be a step towards one world government. Then goodbye sovereignty of the individual countries.
agreed. sinclair makes the point about the euro that they didn't build in an adjustment mechanism for different economic rates in different countries.
as for one world currency, the point is he thinks they are all toast. he's not advocating it; he's warning of it. |
Buying:
Peace/Morgan G+ at $15.00
copper cents at 1.3X
wheat pennies at 3X
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Lemon Thrower
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1588 Posts |
Posted - 02/09/2010 : 05:47:12
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Buying:
Peace/Morgan G+ at $15.00
copper cents at 1.3X
wheat pennies at 3X
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Forex as a hedge/failsafe
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