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AGgressive Metal
Administrator
USA
1937 Posts |
 Posted - 07/07/2009 : 00:19:50
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So lets say the S doesnt HTF, but we merely have really bad inflation. I think this is a likely scenario. Deflation and SHTF are also possible, but each less likely than simply having bad inflation. In any of the three possible scenarios (since those are the only three - the status quo continuing is not a rational prediction) barter will be useful, if not necessary.
In inflation, barter will be important because Fed notes will not hold their value and will be detrimental to hold. In deflation, fed notes will be harder to come by, even if they are worth more, and so barter will have to subsitute in many cases. In SHTF, barter will obviously be important too. So barter economy is coming to one degree or another sometime in the future.
Now, since you know this, what can you hoard/store/invest to help your situation?
Number one barter item is your personal skills - especially if you have a key skill like medicine, dentistry, farming, mechanical repair, legal services, utility grid (gas, water, electric, etc), gunsmith, blacksmith, animal breeder, computers, and so forth.
Next is real property: people need someone to live and they need land to grow food on. Even though housing has taken a huge hit, lower income rental units and farmland is going to thrive in a serious stagflation. There will be more poor people and food prices will rise, so slumlords and ranchers will be in good shape.
Finally, there are tangible trade goods. The possibilities are endless, but I'll try to make a list of important ones that will most likely be widely accepted. I've left off illegal stuff, which will probably circulate in certain segments of society as good as cash or PMs, but most of us want nothing to do with it. Here goes:
1. Gold bullion, US gold, Canadian gold, etc (for large purchases)
2. Silver bullion, pre-65 US, Canadian maples, etc (for medium purchases)
3. Base metal coins of all types for minor purchases (look at Argentina)
4. Cigarrettes, cigars, chew, dip, rolling paper, pipe tobacco
5. Wine & Liquor (beer is too bulky for most arms-length transactions, but homemade beer might be good to trade with friends and neighbors)
6. Canned or pickled food of all types
7. Bulk food staples (wheat, barely, rice, flour, oats, sugar, salt, baking soda, vinager, olive oil, corn meal, corn syrup, etc.)
8. Other long-lasting non-refridgerated foods (honey, jerky, hard candy, vitamins, nuts, etc)
9. Spices (pepper, chilli powder, onion powder, garlic, tobasco sauce, thyme, curry powder, basil, sage, rosmary, oregano, etc.)
10. Handgun ammunition, especially common calibers (9x19mm Parabellum/Luger "the world's most popular handgun cartridge", .45 ACP, .40 S&W, .38 Special, .380, .357 Magnum)
11. Rifle ammunition, especially common hunting and military calibers (.30-06, .308 Win./.308 NATO, 5.56x45mm NATO/.223 Rem, .22 Long-rifle, 7.62x39mm, 30-30, .270, 7mm Mag, 7.62x54R, 8mm Mauser, etc)
12. Disposable Consumer Goods (toilet paper, toothepaste, tampoons, shampoo, soap, shaving cream, razors, detergent, bleach, amonia, deoderant, lighters, matches, trash bags, light bulbs, batteries, sewing thread/needles, etc)
13. Over-the-Counter medical supplies (aspirin, iboprofin, cold medicine, cough syrup, anti-dyeretics, laxatives, neosporin, hydrogen peroxide, band-aids, foot powder, etc.)
14. Used car & truck tires, motor oil, gasoline, brake fluid, power steering fluid, etc.
15. Lumber, nails, screws, paint, plywood, etc (people will prefer to do their own repairs if possible and will prefer to get their supplies on the secondary market if possible)
16. Basic tools of all kinds, especially garden tools
17. Vegetable seeds (and fruit seeds depending on climate)
18. Livestock (chickens, ducks, cows, goats, hogs, rabbits, llamas, etc.)
19. Firearms of all types
Add to my list please!
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And he that hath lyberte ought to kepe hit wel / For nothyng is better than lyberte / For lyberte shold not be wel sold for alle the gold and syluer of all the world.
-Caxton's edition of Aesop's Fables, 1484 |
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Nickelless
Administrator
USA
5580 Posts |
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n/a
deleted
6 Posts |
Posted - 07/11/2009 : 13:26:15
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In a post collapse world, barter would be essential. Currency will have little value, while the value of certain things like sawing needles and matches for example, would increase dramatically. Put back what you will need for your own survival first, then and only after ensuring you have enough supplies such as food, water, water filters, first-aid, fuel, weapons and ammunition etc, to meet your own needs should you worry about stocking up on trade goods.
Skills
Develop your survival skills and knowledge. Your skills and knowledge may be your biggest asset when it comes to trade during an economic collapse or societal breakdown. Medical skills are the first to come to mind. Doctors, EMT'S, nurses and other medically trained individuals will be in high demand. Other related skills include: dentists, herbalists, homeopaths and veterinarians.
The ability to build shelters, garden, set up and run a distillery, hunting and trapping, collecting and purifying water, gun repair, reloading, blacksmith, butcher, baker and candle stick maker. Any skill filling a need for a number of people would be an asset and a valuable trade commodity. Having useful skills maybe the best barter item you could ever have, and it is a renewable resource!
Gold and Silver
There have been a lot of authors over the years suggest putting back gold and silver to use as barter items after an economic collapse. I personally don't see much use for such items, at least in the early stages, yes it's rare, but you can't eat it, it's not really good for anything besides its current monetary worth.
There will be a much greater need for basic life essentials like food, clean water and medical care. Even with that said I put back every pre-1965 junk silver quarter and dime I come across. This takes very little effort on my part, besides looking at my pocket change and sorting out by date, and placing the coins in a plastic 34.5 oz Folgers coffee can.
Ammunition
Some think ammunition would be a great barter item after the crash. If you can keep from being shot with your own wares, then ammunition would be a great trade item. The thing is people are a selfish lot and could decide it would be more productive for them just to shoot you and take what you have. Robbery and murder are common place during normal times; one can only imagine how bad it would become in the days after a major social break down. If you decide to cache away ammunition for barter purposes, my advice is to put back .22 rimfire rounds and trade only with people you know and trust.
Hand Tools
Hand tools such as saws, hammers, drills, knives, ax heads and handles, shovels, garden hoes and other tools will be in great demand after a collapse, the problem becomes the financing. Tools cost money; even the cheaper quality items will set you back a hefty amount if you try laying back a significant quality.
Whiskey and Cigarettes
Whiskey and Cigarettes would become very valuable items if the normal supply were suddenly stopped. You would have little trouble trading these items for just about anything needed. Just don't get busted by the BATF, don't think for a moment that the government will go away because of an economic or peak-oil collapse, no way. The powers that set on the thrown will only strengthen its grip on the population, becoming more suppressive in order to stay in control.
Things you don’t Need
This is not a complete list. It mostly is a short list of items I have often seen suggested by other writers and on survivalist forums that I feel would had little or no use a barter item after a collapse. This includes; pots and pans, clothing, parts for cars, dollar bills, wire, nails, iron, boards, hinges and other raw building materials. Anything that will be easy to scrounge will not be a valuable trade good. |
The Survivalist Blog - http://thesurvivalistblog.blogspot.com
Survival 101 - http://thesurvivalistblog.blogspot.com/2009/06/survival-101.html |
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Nickelless
Administrator
USA
5580 Posts |
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n/a
deleted
6 Posts |
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Gr33nday43
New Member
Uzbekistan
10 Posts |
Posted - 07/12/2009 : 00:49:21
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| I think if the SHTF, a currency will quickly be established by the government, whether a brand new currency is used or just a revaluation. The government is too corrupt to allow "its" citizen to barter without a monopoly on what they are bartering with. |
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Nickelless
Administrator
USA
5580 Posts |
Posted - 07/12/2009 : 02:41:29
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| Gr33nday, I don't see the government moving quickly or effectively WTSHTF, just like it isn't doing now. There's no way it will be able to stop bartering because people will need things that the normal supply channels won't be able to provide, and people won't want FRNs. Do you know where my garden seed hoard, silver hoard, food hoard, ammo hoard or other items are stashed away right now for bartering later? Neither does the government. And if you think they can stop ANYTHING on the black market during a crisis, much less function in general, I have some beachfront property at First and Frederica to sell you. |
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Edited by - Nickelless on 07/12/2009 03:36:21 |
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theo
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
588 Posts |
Posted - 07/12/2009 : 11:04:38
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I agree.
I've heard it argued that when the dollar collapses, the elitists will continue to control us by issuing another fiat currency (the Amero?) I have to shake my head at that. Its ridiculous to think that people will just meekly accept another fiat currency after watching the dollar become worthless. One should remember that, after the mass bank closings of the 30s, it took over a generation before most people trusted the banks again. Many of us grew up with references to "hiding the money under the mattress." I think that a currency collapse would leave a similar mark on today's society for decades.
My addition to the list:
Containers - Buckets, trash cans (for water collection), mason jars, boxes, garbage bags. . .etc)
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Edited by - theo on 07/12/2009 11:06:34 |
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Nickelless
Administrator
USA
5580 Posts |
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jtm3
Penny Pincher Member
USA
187 Posts |
Posted - 07/24/2009 : 14:06:23
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| Is there any way to preserve tobacco products though? |
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coppercenthoarding.wikia.com
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Nickelless
Administrator
USA
5580 Posts |
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jtm3
Penny Pincher Member
USA
187 Posts |
Posted - 07/25/2009 : 12:04:42
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Are those in metal tins or cardboard?
I bet twist tobacco keeps a lot longer than any other types, and it can be used for smoking and chewing. |
Copper Cent Hoarding Wiki
coppercenthoarding.wikia.com
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Nickelless
Administrator
USA
5580 Posts |
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bruce hylton
Penny Pincher Member
USA
102 Posts |
Posted - 07/25/2009 : 18:32:21
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| I really believe that you have really underestimated the value of TP. After a week it will be worth a fortune and in extremely high demand. |
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jtm3
Penny Pincher Member
USA
187 Posts |
Posted - 07/25/2009 : 18:43:38
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I would go for twist tobacco over cigarrette tobacco since it can be used for both smoking and chewing.
Although if tobacco becomes scarce and people only use it occasionally twist might be, too harsh to chew.
Also after it is chewed it can be left to dry and smoked that way.
So it can be used twice. |
Copper Cent Hoarding Wiki
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Edited by - jtm3 on 07/25/2009 21:39:41 |
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Nickelless
Administrator
USA
5580 Posts |
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Bluegill
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1964 Posts |
Posted - 07/25/2009 : 21:06:57
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quote:
Originally posted by jtm3
I would go for twist tobacco over cigarrette tobacco since it can be used for both smoking and chewing.
Although if tobacco becomes scarce and people only use it occasionally twist might be too harsh to chew.
Also after it is chewed it can be left to dry and smoked that way.
So it can be used twice.
Definitely wouldn't want to buy or borrow a cig from someone doing that. 
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jtm3
Penny Pincher Member
USA
187 Posts |
Posted - 07/25/2009 : 21:23:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Nickelless
quote:
Originally posted by jtm3
Also after it is chewed it can be left to dry and smoked that way.
So it can be used twice.
At the risk of asking a stupid question...have you tried this?
No but My grandfather and some other direct relatives do.
I'm not 18 yet.
I have relatives that used to grow tobacco and hand twist it. They chew it then put it on a drying rack to smoke the next day.
quote:
Originally posted by Bluegill
[quote]Originally posted by jtm3
quote:
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Originally posted by jtm3
I would go for twist tobacco over cigarrette tobacco since it can be used for both smoking and chewing.
Although if tobacco becomes scarce and people only use it occasionally twist might be too harsh to chew.
Also after it is chewed it can be left to dry and smoked that way.
So it can be used twice.
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Definitely wouldn't want to buy or borrow a cig from someone doing that.
Well they use it for pipe smoking not cigarettes so it is more of a personal use thing.
But I am sure you could also use it for cigarettes. |
Copper Cent Hoarding Wiki
coppercenthoarding.wikia.com
+637 posts |
Edited by - jtm3 on 07/25/2009 21:26:16 |
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Barter Goods Discussion
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