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Cerulean
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
993 Posts |
Posted - 12/13/2007 : 13:37:53
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November 2007 update... you know the drill...
Compared to November '07, pennies are down 48.9%, and nickels are up 57.1%! Very dramatic changes from recent year-over-year trends. |
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horgad
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1641 Posts |
 Posted - 12/13/2007 : 14:08:53
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That is a pretty fast change especially on the pennies. Lowest mintage for the month by far for the last 18 months. Is this related at all to the reports of banks shorting us hoarders? Maybe they were counting on the that coinage bill going through?
I can't wait to see what December brings. |
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Cerulean
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
993 Posts |
Posted - 01/11/2008 : 13:26:39
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The Mint has posted numbers for all of 2007. Although I expect these numbers to change, and I will monitor to see if they do, here's what happened in December:
The Mint effectively shut down! I was expecting a slowdown like the Mint usually does at the end of each year, but not this dramatic. Only 1,200,00 pennies minted, no nickels, and only 500,000 dimes! Quarters were low but still comparable to recent months. Surprisingly the Mint made a last-minute run of 3,400,000 half dollars, almost doubling the '07 totals. |
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HoardCopperByTheTon
Administrator
USA
6807 Posts |
 Posted - 01/11/2008 : 14:19:12
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I could see them cutting back on pennies and nickels since they are losing money on those. But why would they shift all that production capacity to half dollars.. nobody uses them? Even the casinos don't use them anymore since they have converted to TITO on their slot machines. Could it be because of the significantly higher siegnorage on the halves? Maybe they just make them up and store the bins somewhere, not even bothering to ship them out. That way they can book the siegnorage in 07 and then if they can't get rid of them they could either store them forever or melt them and take the hit in some future year. Does this mean maybe the post office is going to be pushing halves as change? I wouldn't mind having 1 or 2 of those shiny half dollars for my collection, but what are they going to do with all the rest?
Maybe it's a conspiracy. The mint has been reading our board and knows that lots of us like to get rolls of half dollars to go through too. So they are cranking out a bunch of shiny new halves to mess us up.  |
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Edited by - HoardCopperByTheTon on 01/11/2008 14:55:42 |
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Crash
Penny Pincher Member
USA
155 Posts |
Posted - 01/11/2008 : 15:10:13
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quote:
Only 1,200,00 pennies minted, no nickels, and only 500,000 dimes! Quarters were low but still comparable to recent months. Surprisingly the Mint made a last-minute run of 3,400,000 half dollars, almost doubling the '07 totals.
I wonder if the penny & nickel slowdown is foreshadowing somekind of change in metal composition. As far as the halves go, it certainly seems strange. HCBTT's reasoning sounds good to me. Outside the new dollar coins, the halves would give the mint the most profit. |
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El Dee
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
547 Posts |
Posted - 01/11/2008 : 15:14:00
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I doubt if the mint actually worries about the cost. They just crank 'em out. After all, the siegnorage on all those presidential dollar coins more than makes up for loss in the penny and nickel. I think that's the real reason they crank out so many dollar coins that sit in vaults and never get used.
The production figures will probably change. I'd wait a month before checking 2007 numbers. |
Trust the government? Ask an Indian. |
Edited by - El Dee on 01/11/2008 15:14:58 |
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HoardCopperByTheTon
Administrator
USA
6807 Posts |
Posted - 01/11/2008 : 15:23:55
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I don't think they worry much about cost or profit either, but I can't think of any other reason for them to be producing a bunch of halves. Where is the demand? It must be some accounting thing. Isn't the mint supposed to produce coins to satisfy the nation's need for coinage? Who needs half dollars? At least with dollars there is theoretically the hope that they might actually get used at some point.. LOL. Maybe if they stop printing paper dollars.
Then again, if they are not worried about profit, why do they rape the poor collector on the price of all those new coins they sell to them? |
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Cerulean
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
993 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2008 : 13:54:58
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Okay, the Mint is acting suspicious. After last month's near-total work stoppage, things are back to a muted start in January. The numbers were up early this month, but I wanted to wait and see if they changed.
Comparing Jan '08 to Jan '07: pennies down 32.9%, nickels down 37.1%.
But here's the real kicker. When the Mint starts a new year, they remove the oldest year's data from their website (You must be logged in to see this link.). Heaven knows why, since server space is so cheap these days. For example, when the 2007 data was released, the Mint got rid of the 2004 data. But this year, when the 2008 data went up, they took down the 2007 data, and left 2005 up instead! Why would they do that, and what are they hiding? There's something about the 2007 numberes that they don't want somebody to know. Maybe it's to conceal from Congress the fact that they didn't make the statutory requirement of Sacagaweas, as specified in the 2005 Presidential Dollar Coin Act. Maybe they're hiding the sudden bump in half dollar production. Maybe they're hiding (or were told to hide) any numerical evidence of inflation or deflation. Any other guesses? |
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Edited by - Cerulean on 02/14/2008 13:57:47 |
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n/a
deleted
27 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2008 : 14:16:21
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Incompetent employees erased the wrong year !
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Scrooge's signature dive into money. |
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Ardent Listener
Administrator
USA
4841 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2008 : 15:40:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Cerulean
Okay, the Mint is acting suspicious. After last month's near-total work stoppage, things are back to a muted start in January. The numbers were up early this month, but I wanted to wait and see if they changed.
Comparing Jan '08 to Jan '07: pennies down 32.9%, nickels down 37.1%.
But here's the real kicker. When the Mint starts a new year, they remove the oldest year's data from their website (You must be logged in to see this link.). Heaven knows why, since server space is so cheap these days. For example, when the 2007 data was released, the Mint got rid of the 2004 data. But this year, when the 2008 data went up, they took down the 2007 data, and left 2005 up instead! Why would they do that, and what are they hiding? There's something about the 2007 numberes that they don't want somebody to know. Maybe it's to conceal from Congress the fact that they didn't make the statutory requirement of Sacagaweas, as specified in the 2005 Presidential Dollar Coin Act. Maybe they're hiding the sudden bump in half dollar production. Maybe they're hiding (or were told to hide) any numerical evidence of inflation or deflation. Any other guesses?
If you can keep us posted. I would like to see how this You must be logged in to see this link. plays out. |
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Think positive. |
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Cerulean
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
993 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2008 : 09:31:50
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February 2008 data is posted.
Compared to Feb '07, pennies are down 39.2%, and nickels are down 51.0%. If this trend continues, 2008 may have a five-year low on mintages. |
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Cerulean
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
993 Posts |
Posted - 04/15/2008 : 14:53:59
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March 2008 data went up today. The Mint has restored the 2007 data, and removed the 2005 data, as they should have done in February.
Compared to March '07, pennies are down 71.2% and nickels are down 74.5%. (No wonder I haven't found any 2008s.) Is this a sign of inflation or deflation? I'll let you decide.
Also, check out the wide disparity between Denver and Philly mintages:
You must be logged in to see this link.
Usually D and P mintages are about equal. This year the D mintages are about 40% larger than the P mintages. The imbalance is most notable in coins smaller than 25 cents. Anyone know what to make of this? |
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Epaphras
Penny Collector Member
USA
382 Posts |
Posted - 04/16/2008 : 07:26:12
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| I thought the Mint had planned on producing more pennies and less nickels for this year? |
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swusc
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
553 Posts |
Posted - 04/16/2008 : 09:37:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Epaphras
I thought the Mint had planned on producing more pennies and less nickels for this year?
Pennies
They produced 7.4 Billion last year. They have only produce around 1 billion for the first 3 months of this year.
Nickels
They produced 1.2 Billion last year. they have only produced around 167M for the first 3 months of this year.
Seems like they plan under produce both issues this year.
The banks keep telling me people usually bring in their change around christmas time. I wonder if that is why production figures drop in December. People cashing in all the change increase the supply.
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`Everybody is ignorant. Only on different subjects.' Will Rogers
"This is the shabby secret of the welfare statists' tirades against gold. Deficit spending is simply a scheme for the "hidden" confiscation of wealth. Gold stands in the way of this insidious process. It stands as a protector of property rights. If one grasps this, one has no difficulty in understanding the statists' antagonism toward the gold standard." Alan Greenspan, 1966. |
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Cerulean
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
993 Posts |
Posted - 04/16/2008 : 13:34:57
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To put swusc's post another way...
In Jan-March 2007, the Mint made 2.16B pennies, 395M nickels, 639M dimes, and 813M quarters.
In Jan-March 2008, the Mint made 1.05B pennies, 167M nickels, 239M dimes, and 628M quarters.
That means 51%, 57%, 62%, and 22% reductions, accordingly.
If this trend continues, there's no sign the Mint will increase the production of anything this year. 2008 might be a low point for mintages in this decade. Plans change and estimates/predictions will be proven right or wrong. We'll wait and see. |
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HoardCopperByTheTon
Administrator
USA
6807 Posts |
Posted - 04/16/2008 : 14:20:23
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| But if they keep this up their cost of production per coin goes up. Now they will say it costs them over 2 cents to produce every zinc penny. What are they doing with all the excess capacity and idle staff? |
If your percentages are low.. just sort more. If your percentages are high.. just sort more.
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Cerulean
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
993 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2008 : 12:29:29
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April 2008 data is posted.
Compared to April '07, pennies are DOWN 41.3% and nickels are DOWN 75.3%. This is the 8th straight year-over-year (YoY) decline for cents, and the 5th straight YoY decline for nickels. (Relatedly, dime YoY's have been declining for the last 11 months when I started tracking the data, and this is the first YoY gain for quarters in five months. For total mintage output, this is the 9th straight YoY decline.)
The disparity between Denver and Philly mintages continues, with the D mintages are about 40% larger than the P mintages. |
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horgad
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1641 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2008 : 13:17:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Cerulean
April 2008 data is posted.
Compared to April '07, pennies are DOWN 41.3% and nickels are DOWN 75.3%. This is the 8th straight year-over-year (YoY) decline for cents, and the 5th straight YoY decline for nickels. (Relatedly, dime YoY's have been declining for the last 11 months when I started tracking the data, and this is the first YoY gain for quarters in five months. For total mintage output, this is the 9th straight YoY decline.)
The disparity between Denver and Philly mintages continues, with the D mintages are about 40% larger than the P mintages.
Thanks for the info. I am up to 15 boxes of UNC 2008 P pennies. I was going to start dumping them, but now I think that I will hold out a bit longer. And for sure it is time for me to order a few nickels and hope for some 2008 boxes. |
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swusc
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
553 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2008 : 13:39:40
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quote:
Originally posted by HoardCopperByTheTon
But if they keep this up their cost of production per coin goes up. Now they will say it costs them over 2 cents to produce every zinc penny. What are they doing with all the excess capacity and idle staff?
Coin Presidental dollars that no one uses?
-SWUSC |
`Everybody is ignorant. Only on different subjects.' Will Rogers
"This is the shabby secret of the welfare statists' tirades against gold. Deficit spending is simply a scheme for the "hidden" confiscation of wealth. Gold stands in the way of this insidious process. It stands as a protector of property rights. If one grasps this, one has no difficulty in understanding the statists' antagonism toward the gold standard." Alan Greenspan, 1966. |
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Delawhere Jack
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1680 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2008 : 17:28:14
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quote:
Originally posted by HoardCopperByTheTon
But if they keep this up their cost of production per coin goes up. Now they will say it costs them over 2 cents to produce every zinc penny. What are they doing with all the excess capacity and idle staff?
Sorting coppers? Lets hope not!  |
"Educate and inform the whole mass of the people... They are the only sure reliance for the preservation of our liberty." Thomas Jefferson
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jorhyne
Penny Pincher Member
174 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2008 : 17:59:48
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| Well this is good news for us. Fewer new 2008's diluting our percentages! |
Pennies For Sale: http://tiny.cc/jorhynespennies |
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Cerulean
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
993 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2008 : 13:42:25
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May 2008 data is posted, earlier than I expected from the Mint.
Compared to May '07, pennies are DOWN 29.4% and nickels are DOWN 71.7%. This is the 9th straight year-over-year (YoY) decline for cents, and the 6th straight YoY decline for nickels. For total mintage output, this is the 10th straight YoY decline.) Consider that May 2007 was the peak of monthly penny production for that calendar year.
The disparity between Denver and Philly mintages is declining, down to about 27% now. But for '08 nickels, the D's still outnumber the P's by 11 to 5. |
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Edited by - Cerulean on 06/05/2008 14:29:19 |
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Cerulean
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
993 Posts |
Posted - 07/07/2008 : 15:04:22
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And the June '08 data is here.
Year-over-year info... pennies are DOWN 37.5%, and nickels are DOWN 66.0% since June 2007.
Mintmark disparity is stable at 28% in favor of Denver, but Denver is still wildly outproducing Philly in the nickels and dimes.
I'm starting to wonder if the spike in half dollars reported in December 2007 were actually for coins dated 2008. Reports on TreasureNet.com forums indicate that 2008 halves do exist and have been found by coin hunters, but the Mint has not reported any halves made in the 2008 calendar year. If true, it means that the Mint's production figures for a given year might include coins dated for the previous or following years. For example, the 2007 mintage data may include 2006 and 2008 coins. This spells trouble for numismatists who rely on Mint statistics to determine a coin type's rarity.
I plan on spinning the topic of monthly mintage data into a separate blog, and I'll keep this thread posted if I do. |
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Cerulean
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
993 Posts |
Posted - 08/08/2008 : 12:55:04
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July '08 data is here.
Year-over-year info... pennies are DOWN 38.2%, and nickels are DOWN 43.2% compared to July 2007. This was the busiest month for nickels since February.
Denver is still wildly outproducing Philly in nickels and dimes. Don't know why. |
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jadedragon
Administrator
Canada
3788 Posts |
Posted - 08/08/2008 : 15:27:19
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quote:
Originally posted by swusc
[brThe banks keep telling me people usually bring in their change around christmas time. I wonder if that is why production figures drop in December. People cashing in all the change increase the supply.
If there is a drop in coin production in December I would attribute it to holidays (production in most businesses drops due to holidays and parties etc) and in the Mint's case the preperations for switching over all the dies to the new year.
I can see cutting nickel production given the rising metal costs, and declining need for coins driven by more transactions done with plastic and inflation. In fact, the places that see a lot of small cash purchases like Subway, Tim Hortons (coffee/donuts), and Starbucks have all been promoting prepaid chain specific cards. Just deduct of the card - no coins required. |
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Mint Production Figures
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