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theo
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
588 Posts |
 Posted - 05/15/2009 : 21:36:03
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At present when sorting through pennies for coppers, I keep the shiny zincs. On average I keep one zinc for every four or five coppers. Since its very possible that the penny will pulled from circulation in the next year or so; and with inflation on the horizon, when should we stop dumping zincs altogether? Any thoughts?
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Edited by - theo on 05/15/2009 22:18:53 |
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buyingsilvers
Penny Collector Member
441 Posts |
Posted - 05/15/2009 : 21:44:29
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my opinion is that it is more cost effective to hoarde copper pennies than zinc pennies or nickels. I'd rather have $100 in copper pennies than $100 in zinc or cupro nickels.
That being said, if stashing nickels or zincs doesn't impede your ability to stash copper, then by all means, go for it.
The time remaining on copper pennies availablity should be shorter than cupro or zinc. It means that when copper pennies are gone, you should still have ample opportunity to grab zinc & cupro.
The only zincs I really keep are the uncirculated boxes.
IMO of course. |
Edited by - buyingsilvers on 05/15/2009 21:47:02 |
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NotABigDeal
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
3890 Posts |
Posted - 05/15/2009 : 21:44:56
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Depending on your scale of sorting, one zinc to every five coppers can add up.... I return all zinc. Unless the government can pull all circulating pennies overnight, I think the opportunity to find shiny zincs will remain. Although zincs tend to show wear/discoloration to a worse degree quicker than coppers.
Deal |
Live free or die.
Plain and simple.
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your council or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen."
- Samuel Adams |
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highroller4321
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
2648 Posts |
Posted - 05/15/2009 : 22:27:40
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| When zincs start to be worth 2 cents Ill keep them. With the melt ban and them being worth .0038 cents its not even close to worth it yet. In my opinion..... |
Copper Penny Investing
www.portlandmint.com |
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theo
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
588 Posts |
Posted - 05/15/2009 : 22:52:21
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quote:
Originally posted by NotABigDeal
Unless the government can pull all circulating pennies overnight, I think the opportunity to find shiny zincs will remain.
I don't know that it will happen overnight, but once the gov't stops minting pennies the FED could easily order the banks to begin sending their penny stock back. At that point pulling any pennies from banks would get increasingly difficult.
Also, if the dollar starts plummeting the government might recognize that any hard asset (even zinc) might be worth keeping.
Now I still think its prudent to dump zincs in order to finance additional sorting, but I'm not sure if that will always be the case.
[/quote]
Although zincs tend to show wear/discoloration to a worse degree quicker than coppers.
[/quote]
Good point. Now that you mention it, I have noticed that the zincs do tend to lose their definition a lot faster. |
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jadedragon
Administrator
Canada
3788 Posts |
Posted - 05/15/2009 : 23:40:31
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| If you want to keep zincs and coppers there is no reason to sort now. Just stash boxes away and sort when you are ready to sell. However, keeping all (or any) of the zinc at this point seems pointless as the Mint is still cranking out more and more zinc pennies. No scarcity = no opprotunity for value increase. |
“The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” – George Bernard Shaw.
Why Copper Bullion ~~~ Interview with Silver Bullion Producer Market Harmony
Passive Income blog |
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theo
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
588 Posts |
Posted - 05/16/2009 : 00:21:04
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Agreed. I'm still dumping zincs. In fact I dumped a bunch this afternoon. And if I ever need extra cash to buy pennies, I can always dump my shiny zincs. I'm just not sure how much longer the mints will be cranking out zincs. 2009 may be well be the last year of the U.S. penny. In fact considering how limited the initial supply of 2009 Lincolns is, I wouldn't be surprised if the number of 2009s stayed low to maintain collector interest. Its very possible that comparatively few 2009s will make it into circulation.
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HoardCopperByTheTon
Administrator
USA
6807 Posts |
Posted - 05/16/2009 : 00:37:29
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Why would you keep them when you can trade them in for fresh boxes of pennies that are 80% zinc and 20% copper? As long as copper is worth more than zinc, you would not want to hold zinc.
mixed pennies are more desireable than zinc pennies..
copper pennies are more desireable than mixed pennies..
Trade up.. every chance you get.  |
If your percentages are low.. just sort more. If your percentages are high.. just sort more.
Now selling Copper pennies. 1.6x plus shipping. Limited amounts available. |
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theo
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
588 Posts |
Posted - 05/16/2009 : 01:26:57
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quote:
Originally posted by HoardCopperByTheTon
Why would you keep them when you can trade them in for fresh boxes of pennies that are 80% zinc and 20% copper? As long as copper is worth more than zinc, you would not want to hold zinc.
mixed pennies are more desireable than zinc pennies..
copper pennies are more desireable than mixed pennies..
Trade up.. every chance you get.
Very true. But my limitations are not financial. I am limited by:
1. The time I have to hand sort.
2. The amount of pennies I can pull from the banks
When I tried to get more than one box of pennies from my best source bank, I got the old "we only give out those amounts to businesses." line. They seem to be willing to give me one box a week without too much of a ruckus and I would rather not jeopardize that since their copper % is about 30%.
The shiny zinc pennies that I hold do not keep me from obtaining more copper. I view them as a quasi hard asset cash reserve that I will happily dump when I need the storage space and/or money to obtain more copper.
The upshot is that when balloon goes up (hyper-inflation), I would rather have 100 rolls of copper and 20 rolls of zinc than merely 100 rolls of copper and $10 in cash. |
Edited by - theo on 05/16/2009 01:29:06 |
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buyingsilvers
Penny Collector Member
441 Posts |
Posted - 05/16/2009 : 02:22:20
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| If the limitation is not financial, then just keep all the zincs. |
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jadedragon
Administrator
Canada
3788 Posts |
Posted - 05/16/2009 : 04:42:04
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| A Ryedale is a much better hard money investment then boxes of zincs are. I'd tie my money up in a Ryedale rather then zincs. |
“The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” – George Bernard Shaw.
Why Copper Bullion ~~~ Interview with Silver Bullion Producer Market Harmony
Passive Income blog |
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jadedragon
Administrator
Canada
3788 Posts |
Posted - 05/16/2009 : 04:44:35
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quote:
Originally posted by HoardCopperByTheTon
mixed pennies are more desireable than zinc pennies..
copper pennies are more desireable than mixed pennies..
Trade up.. every chance you get.
And...
Canadian 98% Cu pennies are more desireable than US 95% Cu pennies...
Trade up.. every chance you get. |
“The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” – George Bernard Shaw.
Why Copper Bullion ~~~ Interview with Silver Bullion Producer Market Harmony
Passive Income blog |
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buyingsilvers
Penny Collector Member
441 Posts |
Posted - 05/16/2009 : 04:58:09
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| Not really if youre talkinga bout the ones after the weight change. Actually has less metal value than US pennies. |
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theo
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
588 Posts |
Posted - 05/16/2009 : 10:17:21
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quote:
Originally posted by buyingsilvers
If the limitation is not financial, then just keep all the zincs.
Because before long I would begin to have storage issues. Honestly I keep the shiny zincs because they are. . .well, shiny and I can't bring myself to throw them back. There; I admitted it.  That being said; now that I have a number of zinc rolls, I try to limit the zincs that I keep.
Also while I agree that a Rydale would be a good investment. However, I have read enough accounts of the machine jamming and malfunctioning to concern me as I'm not mechanically inclined. Besides I enjoy my current system of hand sorting. Its relaxing and I can do it while watching T.V. |
Edited by - theo on 05/16/2009 10:27:12 |
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theo
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
588 Posts |
Posted - 05/16/2009 : 10:25:13
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quote:
Originally posted by buyingsilvers
Not really if youre talkinga bout the ones after the weight change. Actually has less metal value than US pennies.
Actually according to coinflation, the pre-1980 Canadian pennies are worth about 6% more than the U.S. copper pennies. The Canadian coppers minted from 1980 to 1996 are worth 10% to 20% less.
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highroller4321
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
2648 Posts |
Posted - 05/16/2009 : 10:38:39
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quote:
Originally posted by theo
quote:
Originally posted by buyingsilvers
If the limitation is not financial, then just keep all the zincs.
Also while I agree that a Rydale would be a good investment. However, I have read enough accounts of the machine jamming and malfunctioning to concern me as I'm not mechanically inclined. Besides I enjoy my current system of hand sorting. Its relaxing and I can do it while watching T.V.
You do NOT have to be mechanically inclined to run a ryedale!!!! If it happends to jam all you do is pull the coin out. Theres no taking it apart or anything like that. The machine is set up very nice and is very very very easy to use!
The machine runs EXCELENT if you use dri-slide every 75,000-100,000 coins. People dont do this, and thats what causes a major majority of the problems. |
Copper Penny Investing
www.portlandmint.com |
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jadedragon
Administrator
Canada
3788 Posts |
Posted - 05/16/2009 : 18:21:12
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quote:
Originally posted by buyingsilvers
Not really if youre talkinga bout the ones after the weight change. Actually has less metal value than US pennies.
But the Canadians are so much purer. 98% pure Cu vs 95% seems like only a little but it is less then 1/2 the impurities.
I am not mechanically inclined and I love my Ryedale. I get the idea of hand sorting too though - still do that for relaxation sometimes. |
“The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” – George Bernard Shaw.
Why Copper Bullion ~~~ Interview with Silver Bullion Producer Market Harmony
Passive Income blog |
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oober
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1304 Posts |
Posted - 05/16/2009 : 18:49:20
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| Keeping a few BU zincs is not a big deal, I wouldn't keep any large qty of them though... |
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buyingsilvers
Penny Collector Member
441 Posts |
Posted - 05/16/2009 : 18:50:28
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quote:
Originally posted by theo
quote:
Originally posted by buyingsilvers
If the limitation is not financial, then just keep all the zincs.
Because before long I would begin to have storage issues. Honestly I keep the shiny zincs because they are. . .well, shiny and I can't bring myself to throw them back. There; I admitted it. That being said; now that I have a number of zinc rolls, I try to limit the zincs that I keep.
Also while I agree that a Rydale would be a good investment. However, I have read enough accounts of the machine jamming and malfunctioning to concern me as I'm not mechanically inclined. Besides I enjoy my current system of hand sorting. Its relaxing and I can do it while watching T.V.
the ryedale does not jam/malfunction that much given the amount of coins it processes. You tend to only hear about the complaints when something goes wrong 1% of the time, and not so much the praise when it goes right the other 99%.
usually the jams occur because it's being fed crap. - bent pennies, rubbish, pennies stuck together, foreign coins that are to big. If you eliminate these things, I'd say the ryedale would probably almost never jam.
Bank rolled pennies almost never jam. |
Edited by - buyingsilvers on 05/16/2009 18:55:18 |
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Ardent Listener
Administrator
USA
4841 Posts |
Posted - 05/16/2009 : 19:13:06
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| The zinc cent did go over 100% of its melt value when zinc prices peaked. If someone plans to hold cash around the house anyway then holding a hoard of zinc cents as a by product of copper cent hoarding might not be the worse thing a guy could do. |
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Think positive. |
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slickeast
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
2533 Posts |
Posted - 05/16/2009 : 19:47:01
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If you have the money and the space. Hoard the top 3 coins. Copper pennies, zinc pennies and nickels. If you really don't mind having your money tied up in coins then just buy Massive amounts of pennies in boxes. Sort later when they are either eliminated or CU % is very low.
As far as the ryedale goes. It makes things fast. Jams are usually from user error. If you feed it clean coins it runs like a champ. I have ran it for an hour or more with no jams. That is $200.00 in pennies, Can anyone sort 8 Boxes in one hour by hand?
I myself do not like sorting pennies by hand. I am WAY behind in pulling the wheats. I figure they ain't going anywhere so why the rush.
I would rather spend my time sorting halves by hand. I can run through the pennies quick with the Ryedale and use my time sorting halves. Maybe I can look through the halves while the ryedale is running. |
You don't have to be the BEST you just have to be.......SLICK
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buyingsilvers
Penny Collector Member
441 Posts |
Posted - 05/16/2009 : 19:52:04
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^
The ryedale takes care of itself. If it jams, you can hear it. I go around the house doing misc. other things including sorting halves, pulling wheats, etc etc.
What I do now is cover my zinc accept penny container with a lid that has a small hole that the zinc pennies go into. So in the event of jam, the pennies wont go into the zinc accept container erroneously. |
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HoardCopperByTheTon
Administrator
USA
6807 Posts |
Posted - 05/16/2009 : 23:29:49
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Well, the Ryedale would solve the time to sort issue, but if you are not able to source many pennies it might not be for you. Maybe you just need more or bigger banks. I just added another bank this week that orders 24 boxes for me at a time.
Of course if limitations are not financial, but time and available sources of pennies, you would be best served by just buying all your copper presorted from other members at very reasonable prices. This way you have almost no time invested, you can build your hoard to whatever tonnage you desire at a very small premium, and you don't have to play those games at the banks to get pennies or dispose of pennies. Storage shouldn't really be much of an issue.. a ton of copper pennies actually has a very small footprint. |
If your percentages are low.. just sort more. If your percentages are high.. just sort more.
Now selling Copper pennies. 1.6x plus shipping. Limited amounts available. |
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sheba
Penny Pincher Member
USA
191 Posts |
Posted - 05/17/2009 : 16:31:40
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I am a "small (make that "very small"  'hoarder of copper pennies. I have at least one 2009 coin value book that suggests some of the 'zinkers' if in really gem BU condition might bring a premium over metal content or face value. For example: 1994P in MS 65 seems to be have a fairly high value over other 'zinkers'. A few other dates you might consider 'hoarding' for numismatic value in GEM BU condition would be 1988P, 1987P, 1986D. And of course, keep if numismatically inclined, the 1982 complete series (in Gem BU) as well as the 1983 P Double Die Reverse and the 1984 P Double Lincoln Ear lobe (DD obverse), the 1995 DD obverse and a few others might be worth throwing into a seperate 'jar' IF the coin is blemish free and truly an MS 65/Gem BU. IMHO only .... which is probably worth about 1 and 1/2 'zinkers' 
sheba |
woof ... wag ... whine |
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When do we start keeping zincolns?
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