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fasTTcar
Penny Hoarding Member
Canada
573 Posts |
 Posted - 03/06/2009 : 17:59:29
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They are over face again!
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Copper Futures Gain 10% for the Week
By ALLEN SYKORA Copper continued its climb higher on the same factors that sent it to a four-month peak earlier in the week: encouragement about Chinese demand and London Metal Exchange inventory declines. As the market rose, large speculators bought in order to cover short positions in which they had previously sold metal. On Friday, nearby March copper rose 3.45 cents, or 2.1%, to $1.6805 a pound on the Comex division of the New York Mercantile Exchange, while most-active May rose 3.55 cents to $1.6890. For the week, March futures gained 10%. AFP/Getty Images "China is having a hand in the market," said Catherine Virga, analyst with CMP Group. "China's stockpiling has led to drawdowns in LME inventories. That has been very bullish for prices."
Analysts have been reporting that the country's State Reserve Bureau has been buying metal, following a price drop in 2008, to replenish supplies. Also, there have been hopes that stimulus efforts will help reignite demand in China, which is the world's largest copper consumer. But Chinese leaders this week at an annual legislative session were mum on any additional stimulus efforts.
Declines in LME inventories also are underpinning the market, said Dave Meger, analyst with Alaron Trading. Stocks fell for the seventh consecutive business day on Friday, by 3,175 metric tons, to 522,025 tons. Prior to recent draws, inventories mostly rose for months to their highest level in more than five years. Furthermore, while canceled warrants for copper slipped toward the end of the week on the LME, they had been rising lately and remain high, Ms. Virga said.
The market tends to view canceled warrants as an indicator of metal marked for probable shipment out of warehouses, Ms. Virga said.
"Above and beyond that, there has been short covering in the market," Mr. Meger said. Weekly data from the Commodity Futures Trading Commission show that speculators have substantial net short positions, in which they have undertaken more sales than purchases.
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www.londongoldbuyer.com |
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Market Harmony
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1274 Posts |
Posted - 03/07/2009 : 22:10:46
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In 2003 I was in China on a business trip. There were mass power shortages throughout the country and large investments were being made in that area because the shortages were being blamed for a fall in the production rate of processed metals (steel, aluminum, etc). I vividy remember reading a news article in China Daily of a Chinese metals trader that had large short positions in copper at the time. Since then, the world copper prices went on to an approx 300% gain until 2008.
Right now, I am in China again. Power shortages have vastly decreased as China, last year, was at one time starting up a new power plant a week! These are mostly coal burning power plants. Though I do not have direct statistics of the correlation of metal prices, and China's ability to process them, I can make an educated relationship between the two.
Bottom line, I do not expect a huge increase in copper prices attributable to Chinese demand anytime soon, as much of the huge metal needs of China have already been satisfied. In addition to this, domestic processing of metals should reduce the foreign imports of metals into China. Net result: price = demand/supply. So demand may be levelling off, while the supply chain has improved mine to market rates
All this being said, however, does not change the world wide demand for copper. At today's consumption rate, the world will run out of easily-mined copper by 2030. New expansion of economies in India, Russia, and Brazil can easily consume the surplusses left from a decrease of foreign metal by the Chinese.
I do not disagree with this author's claims of potential for price increases, but I do disagree with the analyst's assumptions that China will continue to be the force behind price movements |
goto the new and improved realcent: http://realcent.org |
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Copper Catcher
Administrator
USA
2092 Posts |
Posted - 03/08/2009 : 07:09:26
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| I'm sure by 2030 the US Penny will be but a historic footnote by then! |
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just carl
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
601 Posts |
Posted - 03/08/2009 : 10:53:35
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quote:
I'm sure by 2030 the US Penny will be but a historic footnote by then!
So very true. |
Carl |
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NDFARMER
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1197 Posts |
Posted - 03/08/2009 : 12:37:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Copper Catcher
I'm sure by 2030 the US Penny will be but a historic footnote by then!
You mean I have to wait another 20 years before my hoard is worth anything? I don't know if I can wait that long. But maybe my grandkids will get something out of it. |
COPPER - the "poormans" precious metal!!!
SELLING - $100.00 face copper shipped to you for $189.00 machine rolled or bagged - PM me if your interested. |
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Market Harmony
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1274 Posts |
Posted - 03/08/2009 : 21:40:35
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Here's another link that might give graphical support to the possibility of Copper price appreciation from the bottom. But, bottom pickers are usually wrong, so don't take it as gospel:
You must be logged in to see this link. |
goto the new and improved realcent: http://realcent.org |
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n/a
deleted
146 Posts |
Posted - 03/29/2009 : 10:36:07
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What price per pound for copper is required to make a 95% Cu penny be worth more than face? Anyone?
Thanks :) |
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NotABigDeal
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
3890 Posts |
Posted - 03/29/2009 : 10:43:53
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Well, it's just over face now. Copper at $1.80 or so.
Deal |
Live free or die.
Plain and simple.
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your council or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen."
- Samuel Adams |
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natsb88
Administrator
USA
1850 Posts |
Posted - 03/29/2009 : 10:46:04
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quote:
Originally posted by nomore
What price per pound for copper is required to make a 95% Cu penny be worth more than face? Anyone?
Thanks :)
Check out the forumulas on Coinflation.com.
Looks like the copper value equals 1 cent when spot is $1.54/pound. (this does not include the value of the 5% zinc)
.01 / (.00220462262 × 3.11 × .95) = $1.535
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Nate
The Copper Cave
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Edited by - natsb88 on 03/29/2009 10:47:41 |
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Market Harmony
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1274 Posts |
Posted - 03/29/2009 : 10:59:14
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quote:
Originally posted by nomore
What price per pound for copper is required to make a 95% Cu penny be worth more than face? Anyone?
Thanks :)
Do you want to take into consideration the value of the zinc content as well? Most people would just discount this, but it does have some value if you could extract it. Discounting the zinc content, at the LME spot price of $1.54, copper content in a 95% cent is worth $0.01. This considering that a 95% cent weighs exactly 3.1 grams.
given:
453.59237 grams per pound
one cent = 3.1 grams
calculate:
95% X 3.1 grams = 2.945 grams of copper per cent
453.59237 / 2.945 = 154.02117 cents to make 1 pound of pure copper
154.02117 cents = approx $1.54... so anything above $1.54 spot copper means a 95% cent is worth more than face value |
goto the new and improved realcent: http://realcent.org |
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Dr. Copper speaks
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