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Market Harmony
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1274 Posts |
 Posted - 02/13/2009 : 13:29:00
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I own and operate a small scale bullion producing business- specailizing in copper, but also have sales in silver and gold. I'm guessing that a few of you have seen my products here and on eBay. I'd like to expand my sales as well as market awareness of commodity investing. Up till now, fee-bay and a company website have been as far as I have gone to promote things.
My problem has been easy acceptance of a small scale bullion producer being trustworthy enough to make transactions of pure bullion, 925 silver, 900 silver, and 14K gold. Most investors are familiar with Johnson Matthey, Englehard, Liberty, OPM, etc. But few have heard of Market Harmony.
So, are there any ideas as to how I can expand my business and gain trust?
btw: I just joined today after speaking with Andy at Ryedale last night. He mentioned this forum to me, and I see that a dealer of our products, The Copper Cave (natsb88) is also here.
Kind Regards,
Michael
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goto the new and improved realcent: http://realcent.org |
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fasTTcar
Penny Hoarding Member
Canada
573 Posts |
Posted - 02/13/2009 : 13:50:05
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Welcome to the site MH.
Just curious, where do you procure your raw materials? |
www.londongoldbuyer.com |
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Market Harmony
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1274 Posts |
Posted - 02/13/2009 : 14:04:46
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quote:
Originally posted by fasTTcar
Welcome to the site MH.
Just curious, where do you procure your raw materials?
#1 copper from local scrap yard. 999+ fine silver from either APMEX or OPM. Scrap silver from the public (must be marked 925 or sterling. Scrap gold from the public (personally acid tested)
Thanks for the welcome |
goto the new and improved realcent: http://realcent.org |
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fb101
Administrator
USA
2856 Posts |
Posted - 02/13/2009 : 16:47:00
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| Sell some on this forum. |
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oober
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1304 Posts |
Posted - 02/13/2009 : 16:48:55
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quote:
Originally posted by fb101
Sell some on this forum.
Ditto... I like silver by the way very much!!!!! |
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NotABigDeal
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
3890 Posts |
Posted - 02/13/2009 : 18:25:09
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Michael, glad to have you. I like your products. I'd be willing to bet that you could sell a ton of it here. Post well and post often!
Deal |
Live free or die.
Plain and simple.
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your council or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen."
- Samuel Adams |
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myfundsarelow
Penny Collector Member
USA
388 Posts |
Posted - 02/13/2009 : 18:52:18
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welcome M H, you found the best information sight about silver &copper the guys&gals are well informed on a lot of good information. also great reading Material Peace!! |
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Market Harmony
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1274 Posts |
Posted - 02/13/2009 : 19:11:03
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quote:
Originally posted by fb101
Sell some on this forum.
No problem... I can put together a list of inventory and prices this weekend
quote:
Originally posted by oober
Ditto... I like silver by the way very much!!!!!
Keep your eyes open for some coming soon. I've got 4 999 10 oz bars, and 4 90% 10 oz bars ready to ship right now.
quote:
Originally posted by NotABigDeal
Michael, glad to have you. I like your products. I'd be willing to bet that you could sell a ton of it here. Post well and post often!
Deal
I like to hear that there is appeal of the products. Thanks! I'll keep posting.
quote:
Originally posted by myfundsarelow
welcome M H, you found the best information sight about silver &copper the guys&gals are well informed on a lot of good information. also great reading Material Peace!!
Yup, I've spent way too much time alreay at this site during what was supposed to be work hours. Lots of good people with great info. I'll be reading and posting more this weekend for sure.
THANKS EVERYONE! |
goto the new and improved realcent: http://realcent.org |
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Computer Jones
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1112 Posts |
Posted - 02/13/2009 : 22:54:42
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So, are there any ideas as to how I can expand my business and gain trust?
Post here what you want to buy and what you want to sell!!!
I have some Silver plated Copper starter "teeth" and contacts from when I
as an electrician/millwright.
Give me a PM if you want to separate and cast the two elements, I'd really like to negotiate a trade. |
There's profit if you melt things!!
8{> |
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Copper Catcher
Administrator
USA
2092 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2009 : 09:16:36
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Michael,
I think by the fact you are asking these questions is a good thing!
I did toss a bid on eBay for your silver bar but got outbid.
I have a few suggestions/comments. Please do not take offense but know I am just being honest and very blunt! My opinion is just that, an opinion and not worth much but here it goes.
It does not look good that you have to host your website free on You must be logged in to see this link. My first reaction is if this guy can't afford to host his website does he have the money to product the product etc.
Your contact us page is a form page. You could be in Iran, India, Russia or the US? There is no name, address or phone number or email for that matter. No way of knowing really who you are or where you are! This does not instill confidence! I would not trust sending you hundreds of dollars not knowing who you are or where you are!
Also your state: "Currently, we are not offering services to balance the "work vs. play" extremes, but we will in the future." This comment makes me think bullion is a sideline and not something you are going to be committed to in the long term. People that want bullion want bullion and want to know the company is focused on producing the product and offer it at reasonable prices and will stand by what they sell forever.
Personally I would stick with just selling .999 gold and silver, period, because that is where the money and real demand is located.
When you sell 14k it is just selling scrap jewelry.
People seem to like bars that are molded with a raised logo. Your logo looks to be flat and more engraved than stamped. I would go fancy versus flat.
I like the little A-Mark bars and the sorta odd thick Suisse America Rounds. You need to find a niche. Maybe 1 gram, 5 gram bars or kilo bars silver bars?
Good Luck.....I would bid on other 3oz bars if you had them just because I like the odd stuff.
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natsb88
Administrator
USA
1850 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2009 : 10:14:10
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The 3 ounce silver bars are really nice. I bought a few for my store 
As for the free webhosting, I would tend to agree. An unlimited webhosting account only costs about $7/month. I'd be happy to provide some more information via private messages.
For contact information, it would be good to list an address (preferable to do this type of business through a PO box) and the email address. I don't feel that a phone number is necessary. Personally, if I wanted to run a mail order / phone order business I would have set it up that way. I want to run a web-based business, so I use email. |
Nate
The Copper Cave
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Edited by - natsb88 on 02/14/2009 10:15:19 |
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Market Harmony
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1274 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2009 : 10:39:59
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parsed quotes:
quote:
Originally posted by Copper Catcher
I have a few suggestions/comments. Please do not take offense but know I am just being honest and very blunt!
This is what I want, thanks for the honesty.
You must be logged in to see this link. My first reaction is if this guy can't afford to host his website does he have the money to product the product etc.
I never thought that free hosting would be a problem. I have options to have it hosted somewhere else, and may have to do just that. $7 a month doesn't seem too steep, so I'll look into it.
quote:
Your contact us page is a form page. You could be in Iran, India, Russia or the US? There is no name, address or phone number or email for that matter. No way of knowing really who you are or where you are! This does not instill confidence! I would not trust sending you hundreds of dollars not knowing who you are or where you are!
Do you think a PO Box address would be sufficient? I'm not running a store front type of business.
quote:
Also your state: "Currently, we are not offering services to balance the "work vs. play" extremes, but we will in the future." This comment makes me think bullion is a sideline and not something you are going to be committed to in the long term.
Then I'll have to clarify our mission and goal on the website... while encouraging people to continue to work, and saving a percentage of wealth in metals, I also foresee a point where work may be the focus of one's life. As well as putting a percentage of wealth to metals, my opinon is that people should also enjoy life and put a percentage of the wealth into life experiences.
quote:
Personally I would stick with just selling .999 gold and silver, period, because that is where the money and real demand is located.
Maybe in the future. For now, I've got to work with what is available. The demand is there for 90% and .925 silver. I would like to move into 99.99% gold only
quote:
People seem to like bars that are molded with a raised logo. Your logo looks to be flat and more engraved than stamped. I would go fancy versus flat.
The eye appeal of some silver bars are great. I especially like the Academy Mint silver bars as well as these rare Golden Analytical 10 oz bars that are poured. The added cost of minting pressed bars and rounds makes the payout unattractive.
Thanks again, I'll be working to improve things on a constant basis. Better luck next time on the silver ingot auction.
~Michael |
goto the new and improved realcent: http://realcent.org |
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Market Harmony
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1274 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2009 : 10:43:29
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quote:
Originally posted by natsb88
The 3 ounce silver bars are really nice. I bought a few for my store
As for the free webhosting, I would tend to agree. An unlimited webhosting account only costs about $7/month. I'd be happy to provide some more information via private messages.
For contact information, it would be good to list an address (preferable to do this type of business through a PO box) and the email address. I don't feel that a phone number is necessary. Personally, if I wanted to run a mail order / phone order business I would have set it up that way. I want to run a web-based business, so I use email.
Thanks, Nate. I'm glad that you like the ingots.
I agree completely with the PO Box and email address. I'll be busy this weekend. |
goto the new and improved realcent: http://realcent.org |
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rodzm
Penny Pincher Member
USA
143 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2009 : 11:24:43
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I prefer poured vs the minted type. It gives them a certain antique lok to them, sort of like the stuff from back in the days. Im mad...I bid on one of the 3 ouncers and lost. Ill take a second chance offer if you can do one for me auction #250372105150
My Ebay screename is mannyscollectibles.
Anyways I do like the bars but wish that the website was more professional and clean looking with the ability to purchase products online |
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Market Harmony
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1274 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2009 : 19:16:40
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quote:
Originally posted by rodzm
...I bid on one of the 3 ouncers and lost. Ill take a second chance offer if you can do one for me auction #250372105150
My Ebay screename is mannyscollectibles.
Anyways I do like the bars but wish that the website was more professional and clean looking with the ability to purchase products online
The winning bidder decided to buy out my complete stock of 3 oz .999 silver ingots. I've got some 10 oz'ers ready to go if you're interested.
I will be working on the website to clean it up. I need to be able to have fluctuating prices, sort of like what APMEX does... Otherwise, I can only post a price list that will need to be manually uploaded each time. |
goto the new and improved realcent: http://realcent.org |
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natsb88
Administrator
USA
1850 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2009 : 19:34:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Market Harmony
...I need to be able to have fluctuating prices, sort of like what APMEX does... Otherwise, I can only post a price list that will need to be manually uploaded each time.
I'm in the same boat. I'm going to look at having some code written for my store, as that is beyond my programming knowledge. |
Nate
The Copper Cave
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oober
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1304 Posts |
Posted - 02/15/2009 : 00:38:02
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If you ever want to get inventive... I would love some 1 oz .900 silver lincoln logs...
The .900 would hold up better when I play with em... :)
I am serious too...
I could mill them my self with the raw material, but I'm way too lazy...:) |
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Market Harmony
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1274 Posts |
Posted - 02/15/2009 : 13:17:45
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quote:
Originally posted by oober
If you ever want to get inventive... I would love some 1 oz .900 silver lincoln logs...
The .900 would hold up better when I play with em... :)
I am serious too...
I could mill them my self with the raw material, but I'm way too lazy...:)
Is this too big?
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goto the new and improved realcent: http://realcent.org |
Edited by - Market Harmony on 02/15/2009 13:19:56 |
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sumrtym
Penny Sorter Member
36 Posts |
Posted - 02/15/2009 : 15:39:59
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| No offense, but the problem is a one man small scale operation just isn't going to be accepted by many on precious metals bars of silver or gold because of the question of purity and recognizability. In order to make it in that market, you have to produce something the others don't. Think 5 ounce bars, or 1/2 ounce, etc. Odd fractional weights the others don't and then you at least appeal to the set that collects odd size bars. |
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rodzm
Penny Pincher Member
USA
143 Posts |
Posted - 02/15/2009 : 16:24:17
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quote:
Originally posted by sumrtym
No offense, but the problem is a one man small scale operation just isn't going to be accepted by many on precious metals bars of silver or gold because of the question of purity and recognizability. In order to make it in that market, you have to produce something the others don't. Think 5 ounce bars, or 1/2 ounce, etc. Odd fractional weights the others don't and then you at least appeal to the set that collects odd size bars.
He has already offered 3 ouncers which look way awesome. For being a small time operation I think the bars look superb...and I think he is off to a great start by offering an appealing product at good prices
Big names started out as small time ventures |
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oober
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1304 Posts |
Posted - 02/15/2009 : 16:28:22
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Ya too big...
Looking for these, made of silver...
In 1/2 or 1 toz weight. I would prefer them to be 1-3" long, 1/8-5/16" in diam. to get to 1/2, 1 toz in weight each.
I don't know what exact dimensions would give a decent look, but 1/2, 1 toz would need to be a fixed variable, what ever gives the most appealing visual...
I bet there would be a market for those, so many of use silver bugs like to play with some of our silver..
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Market Harmony
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1274 Posts |
Posted - 02/15/2009 : 16:35:59
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quote:
Originally posted by sumrtym
No offense, but the problem is a one man small scale operation just isn't going to be accepted by many on precious metals bars of silver or gold because of the question of purity and recognizability. In order to make it in that market, you have to produce something the others don't. Think 5 ounce bars, or 1/2 ounce, etc. Odd fractional weights the others don't and then you at least appeal to the set that collects odd size bars.
Unique? How 'bout these: You must be logged in to see this link.
or these: You must be logged in to see this link.
I haven't seen anyone else make something like the MH large ingots, either
I think you're right about purity and recognizability as well. But those will have to come with time, just like everything else that has ever come to market... That's why I started a serial number system and acquired a stamp with the Market Harmony logo... A log is kept of production dates, sale date, weight, and purity so that anyone that has our products can come back and learn more about their own bullion. Collectors may want the early production dates; as I plan to be operating this company successfully for as many years that God allows me. |
goto the new and improved realcent: http://realcent.org |
Edited by - Market Harmony on 02/15/2009 16:37:51 |
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n/a
deleted
84 Posts |
Posted - 02/16/2009 : 23:02:43
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| ok I have a question about the copper bullion, I understand some manufacturer and dealer premium on metals but the premium on copper bullion just seems asinine. what gives and why would anyone consider investing in it? |
I currently have no signature. |
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Market Harmony
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1274 Posts |
Posted - 02/17/2009 : 08:50:25
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quote:
Originally posted by CopperSnake
ok I have a question about the copper bullion, I understand some manufacturer and dealer premium on metals but the premium on copper bullion just seems asinine. what gives and why would anyone consider investing in it?
Well, your choice of words lets me know that you like to get straight to the point. So, let's look at what you get, and what it takes to produce it and get it in your hands...
If you want to get copper for copper's sake, then there are 2 options: penny sorting or scrapping (buying scrap from a scrap yard)
If you want collectible copper, then there are also 2 options: buy numismatic copper coins or buy produced bullion.
Whether you choose any of the above options, there are costs involved that are much higher than simply looking at the LME price of copper and using that as a reference. Time, travel, and capital tie-up is involved with penny sorting. Scrap yards WILL charge a premium for #1 copper plus there are transportation and storage issues. Numismatic copper carries scarcity as well as grading premiums which make it one of the lowest copper value per dollar. Bullion has the simple cost of buying and shipping.
What makes bullion different from all else is that it is in a condensed form, 99.95% pure, easily divisible, easily transportable, easily stored, easily recognizable, and visually appealing IMO.
Costs involved with producing 99.95% bullion include: #1 scrap acquisition and storage, scrap processing to fit in a furnace, casting, preparation, packaging, storage of finished product, time, equipment costs, and capital tie-up.
Copper bullion is very rare, as well. It is a fledgling industry and will grow as more interest is developed. This will bring in more competition, and may eventually reduce premiums. The supply and demand relationship in this small market is hard at work.
I think bullion investors are some of the brightest individuals out there- able to foresee a flower where others just see dirt. |
goto the new and improved realcent: http://realcent.org |
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Kurr
1000+ Penny Miser Member
2906 Posts |
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TenBears
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1021 Posts |
Posted - 02/17/2009 : 09:14:52
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| The pyramid ingots are interesting. |
"Rich," the Old Man said dreamily, "is not baying after what you can't have. Rich is having the time to do what you want to do. Rich is a little whiskey to drink and some food to eat and a roof over your head and a fish pole and a boat and a gun and a dollar for a box of shells. Rich is not owing any money to anybody, and not spending what you haven't got." Robert Ruark
there are too wild Indians...
there are too wild Indians...
there are too wild Indians...-----still taunted
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small scale bullion producer questions
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