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misteroman
Administrator
USA
2565 Posts |
 Posted - 02/01/2009 : 21:46:44
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Why I ask this is Copper is worth money because it is needed and as we are seeing now when the economy is bad copper becomes very cheap because no one is buying it.If TSHTF who would need copper?Seems like it would kind of be fairly worthless .Still would be better then paper and for the price we get it for it can't be beat.
Thoughts?
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Buying CU cents!!!! Paying 1.2 unlimited amounts wanted. Can pick up if near Ohio area. |
Edited by - misteroman on 02/01/2009 23:07:42 |
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CoinHunter53562
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1805 Posts |
Posted - 02/01/2009 : 21:49:57
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| I wonder that too, but I look it like this. If there is a deflationary depression where cash becomes king, the copper cents I have hoarded will come in handy (albeit a pain in the butt to use as cash) and my investment that I paid 1 cent for is still 1 cent. I havent jumped into the copper bar investing/hoarding like some have so I dont have to worry there. |
My hobby: collecting real money 1 copper cent or nickel at a time.
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theo
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
588 Posts |
Posted - 02/02/2009 : 01:03:38
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Good question. Basically as long as there is a semblance of civilization copper will have some value. Although collecting copper pennies will probably not make you rich they can help you maintain some of your purchasing power in a hyperinflation scenario. If the dollar totally collapses (doubtful but still possible) the the copper penny would be more valuable than a dime in black market transactions where only metal value would count assuming copper holds its real (inflation-adjusted) value. However copper's real value well increase if hyperinflation is accompanied by a building boom as it as been in the past.
U.S. coins rank like this in terms of metal value:
1. Nickel 2.5 cents mv per coin
2. Quarter 2.1 cents mv per coin
3. Copper Penny .94 cents mv per coin
4. Dime .85 cents mv per coin
5. Zinc Penny .28 cents mv per coin
Source: Coinflation
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misteroman
Administrator
USA
2565 Posts |
Posted - 02/02/2009 : 01:12:47
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| wow a quarter is down to $.02? |
Buying CU cents!!!! Paying 1.2 unlimited amounts wanted. Can pick up if near Ohio area. |
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simplicitycounts
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
535 Posts |
Posted - 02/02/2009 : 03:25:12
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| I think copper is undervalued. It is needed for electrical wire, plumbing, alloyed for bullet casings, hardware, jewelry, etc etc. If it gets too expensive to mine, then the scrap value will go up. Personally I would think it would stay at $4.00 a pound. Doesn't make sense that it is down to $1.40ish. I think a person could turn a profit buying some of the paper stock and just waiting a year. |
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theo
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
588 Posts |
Posted - 02/02/2009 : 09:04:14
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| Freeport MacMoran (FCX) and Southern Copper (PCU) are two of the bigger copper plays. |
"Hobbies? I got no hobbies! Everything I do; I do for real." The Gold Coast |
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Cody8404
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
602 Posts |
Posted - 02/02/2009 : 10:11:30
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The Copper Cents will still be worth thier copper. Copper is needed for some items. Even in the Dark ages silver coins were devalued by changing their metal to copper.
If there is no other use for copper than as a cheap easily used metal then we have the coins value. Copper was one of the first matals used for axe heads.
If there is a building boom then the copper would be in demand and thus worth more.
In the end copper is worth is worth more than paper. |
Awake, O kings of the earth! Come ye, O, come ye, with your gold and your silver, to the help of my people, to the house of the daughters of Zion, to the help of the people of the God of this Land even Jesus Christ. |
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scooter
Penny Pincher Member
240 Posts |
Posted - 02/02/2009 : 10:39:14
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Why I ask this is Copper is worth money because it is needed and as we are seeing now when the economy is bad copper becomes very cheap because no one is buying it.If TSHTF who would need copper?Seems like it would kind of be fairly worthless .Still would be better then paper and for the price we get it for it can't be beat.
Thoughts?
thats the elephant in the room isnt it.
Still, i think its a great hobby and still worth it.
Copper hoarding gives me a sense of pride in some way.
It will always be longterm if your looking to score big.
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Lemon Thrower
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1588 Posts |
Posted - 02/02/2009 : 12:08:01
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I visited Rome about 10 years ago. Half of the Colliseum is stil standing. the other half is in ruins. apparently it was held together in part by metal rods. The hordes plundered the colisseum for the metal. so yeah, i think metal will still have value. now, can you sell via ebay for 2x? who knows. but you won't lose much of your investment.
do a search for argentina on this site. folks there are hoarding coins for some reason. i guess they know the paper has no real value, so may as well horde fiat metal. |
Buying:
Peace/Morgan G+ at $15.00
copper cents at 1.3X
wheat pennies at 3X
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Kurr
1000+ Penny Miser Member
2906 Posts |
Posted - 02/02/2009 : 13:21:50
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Copper has health benefits as well. Last year the EPA and the FDA agreed copper could be used as a solid aniti-microbial. I believe bills have been proposed to go to all copper door handles and rails in hospitols for the reduction of the spread of infections and what-not. Then theres all the creams, soaps, and washes that could get in on the "new use" in a myriad of ways.
Copper is also a luxery metal. Copper for lamps, candlebra, bowls, etc. Price a copper sink or better yet a hand beat copper bathtub and tell me it aint a luxery metal. Theres alot of uses besides money and electrical. Copper sulhates for farms and water treatments, all kinds of compounds. And I am sure that copper is playing a part in forming the next generation of batteries for hybrids and solar. Perhaps silver is as well.
In looking at the world and ignoring the "experts" I really don't doubt my decision to hold copper. I may be wrong, but I am confident at this point. And at my economic level, copper cents is the hot money making investment for me,long and short term, and perfect because of it's liquidity, I can cash out at no real loss for a better investment at any time. Truly a poor mans silver to me. The point is copper is never worthless. 4000 years of history and more discoveries every day prove that. |
The silver [is] mine, and the gold [is] mine, saith the LORD of hosts. Hag 2:8 [/b]
He created it. He controls it. He gave it to us for His use. Why did we turn from sound scriptural currency that PROTECTS us?
KJV Bible w/ Strong's Concordance: http://www.blueletterbible.org/
The book of The Hundreds: http://www.land.netonecom.net/tlp/ref/boh/bookOfTheHundreds_v4.1.pdf
The Two Republics: http://www.whitehorsemedia.com/docs/THE_TWO_REPUBLICS.pdf
Good reading: http://ecclesia.org/truth/government.html
A number of people are educated beyond, sometimes way beyond, their intelligence. - Tenbears
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keys
Penny Collector Member
383 Posts |
Posted - 02/02/2009 : 17:16:47
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Lets say that the Supercrash hits and everything goes down with it.
Those who plan to survive and flourish are going to need metal objects to make life bearable.
Copper pennies melted down are turned into-
copper sheets for roofing
copper pots for cooking, copper ladles, copper spatuals, flatware, etc.
copper sheets to attach to the bottom of fishing boats to prevent the hulls from rotting
copper sheets turned into pipes for plumbing
Don't think of copper pennies as just measily ol' pennies, think of them as the metal of choice to be used in a post Supercrash world.
Lindsay Publications has many books on the art of smelting, a good investment for those who are handy. |
I change with the times-
but like silver coins found in your change
I stay the same.
*****************
The United States of America started out as the new Republic of Rome.
Will The United States of America end up as the New Imperial Rome? |
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Nickelless
Administrator
USA
5580 Posts |
Posted - 02/02/2009 : 18:49:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Kurr
Copper has health benefits as well. Last year the EPA and the FDA agreed copper could be used as a solid aniti-microbial. I believe bills have been proposed to go to all copper door handles and rails in hospitols for the reduction of the spread of infections and what-not. Then theres all the creams, soaps, and washes that could get in on the "new use" in a myriad of ways.
Thanks for posting this, Kurr, you've brought up a very good point: When we're talking about metals that will be "worth anything" WTSHTF, let's differentiate between melt value and usefulness. Copper has properties that will make it very useful no matter how low the spot price goes. Same thing with silver, as many here are familiar with silver's various medicinal characteristics. I think it's very easy for people like us to get so hung up on which direction the spot price will go that we totally overlook the benefit we can derive from the metals themselves.
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Visit my new preparedness site: Preparedness.cc/SurvivalPrep.net
--Latest article: Stocking up on spices to keep food preps lively
---------------
Be prepared...and prepared to help: http://www.survivalblog.com/charity.html
Are you ready spiritually for hard times? http://www.jesusfreak.com/rapture.asp |
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psi
Penny Collector Member
Canada
399 Posts |
Posted - 02/02/2009 : 23:43:40
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True, the "worth" of copper to someone you want to trade with depends a lot on the form it's in. I would prefer taking copper pipe/wiring or nice cookware etc in trade over pounds of copper pennies, because I know I will probably find something to use it for eventually, and barring that it's not going to be too hard to find someone else willing to take it in trade.
I don't think pennies are destined to become a common medium of exchange in a shtf scenario or otherwise, because they are such a small denomination and because there is no easy way to tell how many zincs might be mixed in when you're dealing with large quantities. If there were a lot of larger copper coins around it might be a different story, but I don't think too many "average" people would be very happy to get paid for a day/week's work in pennies. |
Edited by - psi on 02/03/2009 00:08:59 |
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HoardCopperByTheTon
Administrator
USA
6807 Posts |
Posted - 02/02/2009 : 23:54:22
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I like those larger copper coins too.. but the Australian pennies can't even be found down under anymore. I would love to get paid for a day's work in pennies. I won the office football pool this week.. I told them they can pay me off in pennies.  |
If your percentages are low.. just sort more. If your percentages are high.. just sort more.
Now selling Copper pennies. 1.6x plus shipping. Limited amounts available. |
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HoardCopperByTheTon
Administrator
USA
6807 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2009 : 00:20:09
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I convert my weekly paycheck into pennies all the time.. lol
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If your percentages are low.. just sort more. If your percentages are high.. just sort more.
Now selling Copper pennies. 1.6x plus shipping. Limited amounts available. |
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moboman
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
2555 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2009 : 08:49:16
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Copper is getting used for less and less everyday. Plumbers can now use flexi pipe instead of copper pipe. It's like what they use for gas pipe now or ectrician's flex.
Maybe in the future there will be less need for copper. Voice/data cable seems to be the only wire that they havent made out of Aluminum. CCA voice/data cable doesnt hold up well, so maybe that's why? At 24ga, I guess they have a hard time getting something as strong as copper.
One bad thing with the price being down so low for scrap copper is that on job sites the electricians/alarm/tv guys just throw the wire away instead of recycling it. The same goes for the stainless in restaurants! In the past all this stuff was recycled because of the value to the plumber or to the electrician. On "Old work" construction the handy man used to recycle all the old wire and pipe, now they throw it away too.
What a shame for all this valuable metal to end up in the landfill. |
"99% of all lawyers give the rest of them a bad name" 
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Ardent Listener
Administrator
USA
4841 Posts |
Posted - 02/05/2009 : 11:24:20
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| Copper has been money though out history right along with gold and silver. I'm my opinon it would be much better in a SHTF situation to have that copper in the form of a penny then to have had melted it. Yes, industrial demand may decrease for copper but demand for copper as a money would increase. |
Realcent.forumco.com disclosure. Please read.
All posts either by the members, moderators, and the administration of http://realcent.forumco.com are for your edification and amusement only. It is not the intent of realcent.forumco.com or its host to provide investment, medical, matrimonial, legal, security or tax advice and nothing posted here should be considered to be so. All rights reserved.
Think positive. |
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Cody8404
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
602 Posts |
Posted - 02/05/2009 : 14:00:00
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With a copper cent in hand you know exactly what you have. 3.1 grams of 90% copper. If I have a bit of copper wire I do not know its weight or fineness until I weigh and smelt it.
I have a few dollars that I can save. I have chosen to save them as copper cents.
When the world is in turmoil like we are entering you never know what will be valuable and what won't.
If the price of copper drops I still have the face value of the coins.
If the price goes up I could sell them for more than face value, or even for collector premiums.
If other things happen I have the copper and other choices.
The biggest winners, or sometimes those who simply survive upheavals, are those who see problems coming, and prepare their minds and their supplies. Those who do the best are willing to be creative and think outside the box.
The next best thing is indifference. Be everyone’s friend, and don’t cause any ripples. Be the little house down the road that everyone drives past, but never looks at, neat, tidy, small, nondescript and safe.
Cents are boring, tell people you are collecting cents and they blow you off, and that is just fine.
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Awake, O kings of the earth! Come ye, O, come ye, with your gold and your silver, to the help of my people, to the house of the daughters of Zion, to the help of the people of the God of this Land even Jesus Christ. |
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psi
Penny Collector Member
Canada
399 Posts |
Posted - 02/05/2009 : 18:19:27
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I'm still trying to imagine how deals would play out using copper pennies as money in a post-fiat situation. Assuming the seller needs no convincing of the value of copper pennies in general, how do you persuade them that you are not trying to cheat them by passing brown zincs/steels in with the coppers? Weighing some rolls and opening some to check dates would be one way. I guess this might not be as much of an issue in a small community where use of "real money" was common, because people will know that if you were a cheat word would get around pretty quick.
One thing I like about the canadian copper pennies is that it's pretty easy to identify them at a glance. The most common ones these days (1982-1996) can be identified by the sided edges and the newer round pennies are all zincs and steels. The pre-82 round coppers have a different portrait of the queen so a zinc or steel stands out no matter which way it's facing (even aside from the date the leaf side looks different because of the higher relief design on earlier coins).
Common wheats might work well in trade as well, easily identifiable and worth more than melt because of their age. My feeling though is that silver is inherently more practical as post-fiat money, both for verifiability (very different looking and sounding, and less coins to check through) and portability. I also like the canadian .999 nickels for easy distiguishability (the metal looks very different and the coins also have a distinctive sound). |
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keys
Penny Collector Member
383 Posts |
Posted - 02/05/2009 : 18:56:08
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Perhaps, just perhaps, the copper pennies in question will be treated as follows-
50 or 100 will be put in a tube or copper pipe and sealed up.
A trusted trader would stamp his seal on the outside of the pipe indicating that it contained real copper cents.
Brasher, the man responsible for the Brasher Dubloon, would punch his initials into gold and silver coins to verify they were not counterfeit, sort of like a hallmark for coins.
Chinese traders would stamp chopmarks into silver coins they recieved in trade to gaurantee the coin's silver purity.
As recently as the 1930's, traders in Africa and the Middle East, especially in what is now Saudi Arabia, traders would stamp purity marks on silver coins.
Considering how silver coins were stamped for purity, why wouldn't pennies get the same treatment?
If worse came to worse, pennies could be cut in half to reveal they are real copper.
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Copper was used by the Ancient Romans as their first form of money but was eventually replaced with silver due to the increase in the copper supply.
While copper lost its significance as the main form of Roman Money, copper coins still circulated for centuries until the Roman Empire collapsed-
and then the copper coins were collected by the rich and by royalty due to their antiquity.
(I guess you can't keep a good coin down.)
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I change with the times-
but like silver coins found in your change
I stay the same.
*****************
The United States of America started out as the new Republic of Rome.
Will The United States of America end up as the New Imperial Rome? |
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keys
Penny Collector Member
383 Posts |
Posted - 02/05/2009 : 19:18:30
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| Whether or not you choose to hold pennies during or after WTSHTF/Supercrash, it is better to hold onto something with some kind of useful value or trade value than mere scrap paper(FRNs). |
I change with the times-
but like silver coins found in your change
I stay the same.
*****************
The United States of America started out as the new Republic of Rome.
Will The United States of America end up as the New Imperial Rome? |
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AGgressive Metal
Administrator
USA
1937 Posts |
Posted - 02/05/2009 : 22:58:10
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| I am no fan of FRNs in general, but bear in mind that when there is a deep recession, you may need large amounts of cash lying around to take advantage of opportunities in the secondary market - like flea markets, yard sales, people strapped for cash in general - in order to meet your needs. Remember that not everyone will be able to adapt to the barter economy quickly because paper money is so engrained in their mind. |
And he that hath lyberte ought to kepe hit wel / For nothyng is better than lyberte / For lyberte shold not be wel sold for alle the gold and syluer of all the world.
-Caxton's edition of Aesop's Fables, 1484 |
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CoinHunter53562
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1805 Posts |
Posted - 02/05/2009 : 23:14:47
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| I plan to hoard enough copper to fill up a few hundred sandbags of them, and then place them around my house for defense in a SHTF scenario. Who says they arent useful? |
My hobby: collecting real money 1 copper cent or nickel at a time.
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redneck
1000+ Penny Miser Member
1273 Posts |
Posted - 02/06/2009 : 01:44:08
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quote:
Originally posted by CoinHunter53562
I plan to hoard enough copper to fill up a few hundred sandbags of them, and then place them around my house for defense in a SHTF scenario. Who says they arent useful?
Best idea yet...!
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If the SdoesHTF will copper ever be worth anything
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