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JerrySpringer
Penny Hoarding Member
669 Posts |
 Posted - 12/16/2008 : 10:16:04
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These type of auctions have probably been talked about here before but here is another one. I am pretty sure that if prosper.com gets hammered for selling unregistered securities, this guy is doing the same:
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n/a
deleted
42 Posts |
Posted - 12/16/2008 : 14:39:56
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| This guy has no physical silver to sell |
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barrytrot
Administrator
USA
721 Posts |
Posted - 12/16/2008 : 22:04:25
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This isn't the first of these to hit eBay. I actually bought 35 "ounces" from You must be logged in to see this link.
I put in a lowball bid on every one of the auctions at that time that was BELOW SPOT including their transaction fees. I made 15% in under one month as they didn't have a rule that "you can't sell back for at least 30 days".
The "must hold for 30 days" is sort of weird, but they have 100% feedback. Only 62 total points though (Hopkins had over 4,000 points so I figured they weren't going to risk that stellar repuation). With only 62 I can see risking it I suppose. Hm, and looking at their feedback the last 30 of them are all these "certificates of holding".
It sounds like a bit of a ponzi scheme so if anyone bids get out after 30 days unless Silver dives or something. |
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JerrySpringer
Penny Hoarding Member
669 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2008 : 08:10:50
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I e-mailed him and asked if he has selling securities. Here is his answer:
quote:
These aren't securities.
They are "certificates", like gift certificates, you can redeem for physical delivery after the waiting period.
If you are uncomfortable with the terminology/terms or think my auction may violate your state laws or mine, please don't bid.
Thanks,
Michael
Uhhh, aren't these certificates actually securities if they can fluctuate in value like a stock or bond?
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pencilvanian
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
2209 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2008 : 09:33:50
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These silver certificates are not so much securities as they are IOUs, instead of an IOU for so many dollars they are an IOU for so many ounces of silver.
see:
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Certificates
"A certificate of ownership can be held by silver investors instead of storing the actual silver bullion. Silver certificates allow investors to buy and sell the security without the difficulties associated with the transfer of actual physical silver."
Since the silver certificate is an IOU with a definite value (metal or money refunded if silver delivery is unavailable) rather than a share in a company (company may or may not be profitable or even exist) then these certificates don't fall under the rules of securities.
On the other hand, if these certificates/IOUs are for silver (which is in tight supply) why are they for sale on eBay? Why not sell the physical silver instead of IOUs?
As has been stated before-If you don't hold it you don't own it.
**************************************
Investment advice-
Whenever an investment is presented to you and it is the kind of investment "the big boys" invest in, ask yourself-
"If it is such a great investment, why didn't 'the big boys' buy it all up for themselves?"
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Edited by - pencilvanian on 12/17/2008 09:35:40 |
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snappy
Penny Collector Member
USA
301 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2008 : 10:05:55
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and after the 90 days 60 day wait to get silver and 30 days to process it (paypal will not give back money to much time)... It could be that he is going to sell a bunch take the money then fall off the earth That auction he sold 21/29 of his 10oz contracts.
And he has 21 other auctions for contracts.
edit: some of them are not small in one he sold 20 50oz contracts. |
Selling Ryedale sorted USA cents
1.5 each + shipping over 500fv 1.5 each +1/2 shipping
If you pick up 1.35 each
located MT/ND boarder.
after Ryedale sorting they are hand sorted to remove canadian then rechecked with Ryedale to insure all copper and count out $50 FV then placed in cloth bags and sealed with #1 copper wire. |
Edited by - snappy on 12/17/2008 10:11:39 |
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JerrySpringer
Penny Hoarding Member
669 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2008 : 13:46:43
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quote:
These silver certificates are not so much securities as they are IOUs, instead of an IOU for so many dollars they are an IOU for so many ounces of silver.
You are probably right. The seller can run his auctions without intervention based upon technicalities I guess. I won't be buying from him though. I'll just keep searching for coins on my own.
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Neckro
1000+ Penny Miser Member
Saudi Arabia
2080 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2008 : 14:36:28
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| If it was me, and he failed to deliver. I'd do a charge back if I could. |
Trolling is an art. |
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JerrySpringer
Penny Hoarding Member
669 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2008 : 14:43:36
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After 60 days, you are out of luck with charge backs on credit cards. If people can not go direct to APMEX or some local coin shop that has a reputation to maintain to find silver or are in desperation such that they will accept IOUs from joe blow, we may be at some kind of blow off top for silver.
I am getting somewhat disenchanted on this whole metals/precious metals scene. It may just take TSHTF for some clarity on what people consider real anymore. |
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barrytrot
Administrator
USA
721 Posts |
Posted - 12/18/2008 : 11:52:19
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Just to add clarity. These absolutely ARE securities. Any time there is an "investor" by definition the thing "invested in" is a security unless it is a government exempted item such as government backed bonds.
As such, they would need to be registered in order to sell them to unqualified investors like you would commonly find on eBay.
Just the fact that they have the 60 and 90 day "windows" indicates to me this is something to stay away from. |
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rodzm
Penny Pincher Member
USA
143 Posts |
Posted - 12/18/2008 : 12:23:52
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Here is the timeline when you would get your "silver". 60 days from your purchase to be eligible for delivery + 30 Business days which in reality would be more like 6 weeks or a total 42 days.
So 60 Days plus 42 days would be 102 days to receive physical. Almost 3 1/2 months for delivery. At that rate I might as well buy from Northwest Territorial Mint which is known to deliver in about 3 months time and you are guaranteed to receive a specific product.
Oh and to top it off after you request delivery you mus pay shipping of: ACTUAL SHIPPING COST + ACTUAL INSURANCE (REQUIRED) + 50 cents / Troy oz
So if you have 100 oz you would pay 100 x .50= $50 plus insurance on 100 ounces plus actual shipping
This is a total scam and I cant believe so many people are falling for it |
Edited by - rodzm on 12/18/2008 12:29:18 |
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Wild west type silver shares
Forum Locked
