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78 Posts |
 Posted - 05/17/2006 : 22:56:56
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I've been thinking of making a sorting machine, here's how I'd do it:
I'd get a "coin comparitor" sold for arcade and slot machines. It lets you insert a sample coin, and only accepts coins that match its characteristics. You can get one of these for $20 on eBay.
I'd also get one of those cheap sorting banks, which has a wheel like the one shows in the video of a sorting machine. (another $20 on eBay)
From here it's a matter of some electrical connections (to power the comparitor and motorized wheel) and some ramps (to get the coins from the wheel to the comparitor, and from the comparitor accept and reject slots to two different bins).
Sounds like something that could be hacked together in an afternoon.
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Ardent Listener
Administrator
USA
4841 Posts |
 Posted - 05/17/2006 : 23:49:58
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Welcome to the forums. Good ideas.
Bad money drives out good money. |
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14 Posts |
Posted - 05/18/2006 : 11:57:01
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I say get the stuff and have a go at it. If it works you could sell it or plans if it doesn't work at least you had fun trying.
I sort pennies by hand, but some people probably don't like to.
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Posted - 05/18/2006 : 12:09:24
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Welcome to our newest members glad you found us. I would be interested in a sorter however I would still look through them by hand. I have found a couple of errors and I also seperate out the wheats. An automated sorter would not catch these coins.
A bank is a place where they lend you an umbrella in fair weather and ask for it back when it begins to rain. --- Robert Frost |
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22 Posts |
Posted - 05/18/2006 : 18:17:32
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| That does sound interesting... do you know which types of coin comparitors sort by weight? I can't seem to find that anywhere... maybe all of them do? |
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78 Posts |
Posted - 05/18/2006 : 20:43:41
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| I think they go by electromagnetic signature rather than weight, which is probably more reliable (especially at high speeds) |
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5 Posts |
 Posted - 05/18/2006 : 22:43:25
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| what do you guys do with your wheat pennies? |
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Posted - 05/18/2006 : 23:32:14
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well, I talked to the seller of this auction
You must be logged in to see this link.
he said it sorted based on size and density. He was kind enough to test it out with pennies and he said it could not tell the difference although it's possible that with better tuning it could. I'm thinking the ones that do sort by weight, would not be sensitive enought to pickup a 1/2g difference.
If anyone could find a model that sorts by electromagnetic signature that would be ideal :) |
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realcent
Forum Admin
USA
246 Posts |
Posted - 05/19/2006 : 07:21:13
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quote:
Originally posted by t206
what do you guys do with your wheat pennies?
All my wheat pennies are taken away from me. 
My wife has been collecting/hoarding wheaties since she was a little girl. She started searching penny rolls long before me, (though only saving the wheaties)
She has a huge 8 gallon jar for her wheaties from the 40's and 50's, a small jar for the early dates, and a couple of albums that she puts the best ones in.
It works out because we can sort pennies together now. She gets the wheaties, and I get all the other coppers.
RealCent
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For more copper cent hoarding information check out:
You must be logged in to see this link. |
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ImperialFleet
Penny Pincher Member
USA
217 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2006 : 18:30:45
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| heh, you could eat your wheaties. |
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42 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2006 : 15:34:05
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The coin sorting video is how I found this place. Since that video I have taken a little time to start a sorter in cyberspace. I use SolidWorks (SW) as a hobby to put my ideas not only to paper but verify they mechanically work.
I checked out the auction and that comparator may work. An electromagnetic signature within the context of our discuss can be directly proportionate to the weights involved. There is a weight difference of almost 20% between the two coins. Simply reducing/increasing the sample size to a point where it will boot the heavier/lighter coin. Find the tolerance threshold and add that to a Cu cent for the sample and then watch it boot the zincs. A deeper look into the calibration instructions regarding dampening weights convinced me to snag one off the Bay of E and move forward. So with a little time and testing of the comparator I'll build an SW version, then a real working model when the outside temps where I live fall below a million.
If it works, I may sell it because to me it goes against the flow of being mechanical. Plus it may even fund some more early copper. If I still have the urge after that I'll design one than runs via the weight of the cents being sorted.
Here's a pic of the basic scoop wheel I clicked together after seeing the video. Should be a fun project. I'm alway looking for tinkerers to test ideas during the summer months. Just PM me.
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Ardent Listener
Administrator
USA
4841 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2006 : 18:53:29
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I was wondering if someone set up sorting machines in public places like coin dealers, would people haul their pennies there and pay to have a machine quickly sort them? 
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If you can conceive it, you can achieve it. -Napoleon Hill |
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42 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2006 : 19:32:53
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Interesting idea. But dealers thrive on the uneducated. Anyone with enough smarts to know about the copper/zinc value related to cents would not fall for the commission a dealer may charge.
Then again,, if a dealer were to offer 1.5X for sorted Cu cents he may get a few takers. Then turn and sell the Cu cent as unsearched to collectors. He wins again. And believe me, collectors that know that they are getting truely 'unsearched' are happy to go 7X for wheaties and 2-4x for anything minted before the single squeeze method was introduced.
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42 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2006 : 10:07:39
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As promised
It was an interesting challenge to design. The one in the video did the job quite quickly. If it was a purely a mechanical sorting setup it truly was a stroke of brilliant thinking. That or something so simple it alluded my pondering. And yes I tried sliding. If I really had to make one I would get a hold of a vending machine CC16 comparator and fiddle with the sample coin signature till I found the tolerance between the two cent types. Then 'Bang' your off at 7/sec provided good feeding. Got one come BTW.
I have removed a few items like the drop tubes and the hopper guard to better show whats happening. Simple enough really.
The hopper lifts a coin to the feed hole at the top. The cent falls into the balance bar slot that has been lifted to neutral by the red cam.
Since the hooper wheel and red cam move together the centering support (red cam) for the balance bar is removed allowing the weight to lift the zinc cent enough to roll it to the left.
If it was copper it would simply tilt the balance bar down and roll to the right.
I did build a balance bar out of 2mm depron foam with a nail/wash bearing. Worked fine. Maybe it could do one coin every two seconds in a working model. Fun project and good free design practice. I'll render it into a photo realistic picture. After my eyes rest.
On a parting note it seems I can no longer stay logged into the site, and jumping through the antispam hoops to post is not my free flowing interacting style. So I will try this last post and move on. You guys have been an interest group. Keep up the passion, I know I will.
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78 Posts |
Posted - 10/02/2006 : 19:03:20
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| Has anyone tried one of these comparitors? |
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Frugi
Administrator
USA
627 Posts |
Posted - 10/02/2006 : 22:16:59
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I have found that when sorting canadian nickels it is really easy to use a magnet to seperate the nickel nickels from the cupro-nickel nickels-then you just pull out the steel w/ chrome plating nickels which are easy due to the bluish color. This way you can sort 100 rolls in a matter of minutes.
Real Eyes Realize Real Lies |
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81 Posts |
Posted - 10/02/2006 : 22:54:45
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sorting by hand is FREE. i like things that are free.
and unless im sorting pennies in the hundreds of dollars at a time i cant justify buying a mchine that sorts them out for me. |
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Tourney64
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1035 Posts |
Posted - 10/03/2006 : 18:00:01
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| I have bought several comparitors for the purpose of building a coin sorter. Some were used and junk. I burned a couple of them up due to incorrect wiring. I now have 5 new ones I bought for $12 each on Ebay. I just haven't had the time to work on it recently. I just got the wiring info from a pinball arcade forum. I already have a design for the entire machine. It should cost me less than $30 to build it. I'll provide more info later, as soon as I can get some time off from my regular job and work on it. |
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42 Posts |
Posted - 10/03/2006 : 23:16:41
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Hey Tourney64, Could you PM me that wiring info. I'm dealing with a CC16 and just haven't had the time yet. I did find it on the web once and it's on my system somewhere, but darn if I can find it. I think I got it from the manufactures site in PDF format. Mine is a 12 volt version.
So, you going up or down on the sample weight? I think I'm going to go up. depending on date of cent source. Hate to over work the redirecting relay thingy. |
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78 Posts |
Posted - 10/05/2006 : 14:24:11
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It doesn't go by weight, it uses a magnetic signature, and compares to a sample coin you insert.
If I were doing it (and I may buy one and try it out), I'd set it to "accept" the zinc ones (by putting a zinc one in the sample slot), and "reject" the copper ones. This way, you have less chance of missing copper ones. Then I'd put a copper one in the sample slot, and run the copper ones through again, so it would "accept" all of them, and any that got kicked out this time would be ambiguous (damaged, wrong kind of coin, etc) and could be hand-sorted.
It also has a pulse output for accepted coins, so you could hook up a counter and keep track of how many of each kind you get. |
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42 Posts |
Posted - 10/05/2006 : 16:44:58
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' It doesn't go by weight, it uses a magnetic signature, and compares to a sample coin you insert.'
Well I'm going to try it. As far as I know the CC series that excepts cents, excepts them all. I figure a sample object with more mass that a copper cent, yet still excepts a CU may reject a Zinc.
Do you have a wire diagram for a CC16? That is really the only thing holding me up. Other that a cluttered mess of a shop.
How is the magnetic signature of copper and zinc defined within the sensor? And how is that definition viewed within the discriminator circuit, Then, what is the tolerance it adheres to? I believe if mass plays a part in any of that, then there is a possibility that sample size and material used can trigger the separation of copper and zinc that has a %20 weight difference between to the two. JMHO :-) |
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78 Posts |
Posted - 10/05/2006 : 20:41:46
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Well, I read all the spec sheets, and talked to a guy that works there today. Their current line is the MC, not the CC anymore. He said the ones on ebay are probably from casinos, and worn out or at least in need of calibration. There's instructions on how to calibrate it, using an oscilloscope (which I have, but need to get a set of probes for).
Anyway, there are two coils, one by the sample coin and one where the coins to be tested pass. When the correct coin is there, the inductance from the two coins cancel eachother out. It's a function of resistance and inductivity (if that's a word, magnetic coerciiveness or something).
Anyway, there is a sensitivity adjustment. If you put in a zinc cent, turn it down till it rejects everything, turn it up till it accepts everything (copper and zinc), and then put it in between those two settings, you should get the optimal seperation. The better calibrated, the farther apart these two points will be (accept/reject all) and the better seperation you'll get.
It does work on size to the extent that different sizes of the same material will have different magnetic characteristics, but if you use a different type of coin as a sample, I think you'll have all kinds of problems.
The thing is designed to reject slugs, and they're usually the same size and weight as what they're simulating. The guy I talked to at the company said it'd have no trouble accepting only one kind of penny if adjusted properly.
The various units will accept different types of coins, but you need to change the damper weight. What this weight does is to make the given kind of coin go by the sensor at the correct speed. It doesn't accept or reject based on weight, it will just work improperly if you put the wrong weight in (ie. reject coins it shouldn't)
To the person who commented on wearing out or overheating the reject solenoid, the solenoid in this type of thing is generally always on, and only pulses off to reject a coin, and thus it is designed for constant operation. This is so that if the device has no power, it will reject all coins, rather than taking all coins and ripping people off. It might use two solenoids, I don't know the details of this unit, but I don't think it would be a problem to reject lots of coins. That said, I'd suggest the sorting protocol I listed above to get best results.
A new MC-16 is $105, and I may order one, just to make sure I don't get a bad unit from ebay (after all, those were removed from service for a reason).
You must be logged in to see this link. is the unit I'm looking at. There's a phone number on the bottom of that page you can call, and they'll probly tell you what wires to hook 12V up to to operate your unit.
Computer power supplies are good for giving you nice 12V, don't like use a car battery charger or something...
It'd be funny if Ryedale's machine just has one of these things in the middle of it... :D |
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42 Posts |
Posted - 10/05/2006 : 21:26:59
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'The thing is designed to reject slugs, and they're usually the same size and weight as what they're simulating. The guy I talked to at the company said it'd have no trouble accepting only one kind of penny if adjusted properly.'
Great problem solved, thank you.
'To the person who commented on wearing out or overheating the reject solenoid,'
That was me, and more in jest than belief. :)
I'll check the link you provided and move forward. I've been to one that was for the CC16 and no pin identification was found. Maybe I'll just open it and find B+ myself. Who knows, so much to do and I still need to find a change sorter for the feeder.
I think I'll just go wall wart for my PS. This thing shouldn't use more that an amp you think? |
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78 Posts |
Posted - 10/05/2006 : 22:36:15
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Try it and check the voltage in operation, see if it's sagging.
This page has the pinout for the interface:
You must be logged in to see this link.
On pages 12 and 13, it has the CC-16 models. There are two different ones for the CC-16, it looks like one is for the 12V model and the other is for the 13V model, so see which one you have. |
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42 Posts |
Posted - 10/05/2006 : 23:00:44
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HeHe, Perfect, let the show begin. Thank you. Geeze I must of looked for ten minutes to find that info but always had dead ends. I think I kept hitting a restricted support area. Anyways, nice key word selection, what ever it was.
I have the 12v model.
Now to find a change sorter. |
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78 Posts |
Posted - 10/05/2006 : 23:05:16
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Google search I used:
site:coinmech.com cc 16 spec sheet |
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Automatic sorting machine...
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