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topeka
Penny Pincher Member
160 Posts |
 Posted - 05/08/2008 : 20:47:24
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When the bill (or one similar) finally passes the house/senate and get signed by the president how many months would you guess before the first steel nickel/penny gets struck?
Do you think steel pennies AND nickels will start being minted at the same time or will they pick one and ease us into the idea?
Which coin goes steel first?
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Silver..poor mans gold
Copper..peasant silver |
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swusc
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
553 Posts |
Posted - 05/08/2008 : 21:03:59
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quote:
Originally posted by topeka
When the bill (or one similar) finally passes the house/senate and get signed by the president how many months would you guess before the first steel nickel/penny gets struck?
Do you think steel pennies AND nickels will start being minted at the same time or will they pick one and ease us into the idea?
Which coin goes steel first?
The nickel goes first or they go at the same time. The nickel is just an awful deal for the government. A lot of the money loss on the cent is accounting treatment.
-SWUSC |
`Everybody is ignorant. Only on different subjects.' Will Rogers
"This is the shabby secret of the welfare statists' tirades against gold. Deficit spending is simply a scheme for the "hidden" confiscation of wealth. Gold stands in the way of this insidious process. It stands as a protector of property rights. If one grasps this, one has no difficulty in understanding the statists' antagonism toward the gold standard." Alan Greenspan, 1966. |
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JSutter
Penny Pincher Member
214 Posts |
Posted - 05/08/2008 : 21:04:06
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| I wouldn't look for them to stamp pennies in steel before 2010. By law the 2009 commemoratives have to be copper/zinc. I think there have to be numismatic pennies in the commemorative designs issued in 95% too next year because the bill mandates that 2009 pennies be issued in the same metallic ratio as the 1909's I think I read something to that effect in a recent copy of Numismatic News. |
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JSutter
Penny Pincher Member
214 Posts |
Posted - 05/08/2008 : 21:43:00
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Here is the legislation regarding the 2009 Lincoln Commemorative pennies. Interestingly the same act brought us the Presidential Dollar Coin series, the First Spouse gold bullion series, and the Buffalo Head .9999 one ounce gold coins.
You must be logged in to see this link. |
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El Dee
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
547 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2008 : 09:17:50
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quote:
Originally posted by JSutter
I wouldn't look for them to stamp pennies in steel before 2010. By law the 2009 commemoratives have to be copper/zinc. I think there have to be numismatic pennies in the commemorative designs issued in 95% too next year because the bill mandates that 2009 pennies be issued in the same metallic ratio as the 1909's I think I read something to that effect in a recent copy of Numismatic News.
The bill proposes that numismatic coins shall be made from the same content as 1909.
Look for circulating coins to be made from steel almost immediately after the law is passed.
Similarly, bicentennial coinage was available in numismatic coins made from 40% silver, but the circulating coins were clad as usual. |
Trust the government? Ask an Indian. |
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Ardent Listener
Administrator
USA
4841 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2008 : 09:52:30
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My guess is that we will see both the nickel and penny go steel in 09. 08 may be a transition year for the nickel much like 82 was for the penny but I doubt it.
If you don't want to have to sort I would buy nickels now. |
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Think positive. |
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JSutter
Penny Pincher Member
214 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2008 : 10:09:15
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Look for circulating coins to be made from steel almost immediately after the law is passed.
In 2009 the pennies will more than likely be copper if for nothing other than traditions sake. I don't see them issuing all the commemorative coins in steel unless it's copper coated steel.
Likewise I'm sure that the Mint has contracts on how much copper they figure they'll need at least going out a year to keep prices down. Almost all corporations handle production issues that way. They're likely to have copper supply well into 2009 locled in at todays or recent prices. I don't see them changing mid-2009 since the commemoratives are involved.
They'll probably figure how much copper they need to get through 2009 then switch to steel in 2010. Also there may be retooling issues involved because it will probably take a lot more pressure to stamp steel than it does the softer copper/zinc. We'd have to ask TMaring about that. |
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Ardent Listener
Administrator
USA
4841 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2008 : 10:21:00
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| Retooling is the reson I don't expect a quick change.........at least as far as the penny goes. There is more dollar motivation to push for a steel nickel though. |
Realcent.forumco.com disclosure. Please read.
All posts either by the members, moderators, and the administration of http://realcent.forumco.com are for your edification and amusement only. It is not the intent of realcent.forumco.com or its host to provide investment, medical, matrimonial, legal, security or tax advice and nothing posted here should be considered to be so. All rights reserved.
Think positive. |
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El Dee
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
547 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2008 : 10:40:17
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quote:
Originally posted by JSutter
Look for circulating coins to be made from steel almost immediately after the law is passed.
In 2009 the pennies will more than likely be copper if for nothing other than traditions sake. I don't see them issuing all the commemorative coins in steel unless it's copper coated steel.
Likewise I'm sure that the Mint has contracts on how much copper they figure they'll need at least going out a year to keep prices down. Almost all corporations handle production issues that way. They're likely to have copper supply well into 2009 locled in at todays or recent prices. I don't see them changing mid-2009 since the commemoratives are involved.
They'll probably figure how much copper they need to get through 2009 then switch to steel in 2010. Also there may be retooling issues involved because it will probably take a lot more pressure to stamp steel than it does the softer copper/zinc. We'd have to ask TMaring about that.
Are you saying they are going to switch from zinc back to copper for circulating pennies?
They changed over to steel pretty easily in 1943. |
Trust the government? Ask an Indian. |
Edited by - El Dee on 05/09/2008 10:53:13 |
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cyberdan
Penny Collector Member
USA
289 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2008 : 13:59:48
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quote:
Originally posted by JSutter
...designs issued in 95% too next year because the bill mandates that 2009 pennies be issued in the same metallic ratio as the 1909's
and just watch the mint try to push them off as the last of a dieing breed on an unsuspecting public and get $1 each. |
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Metalophile
Penny Collector Member
USA
320 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2008 : 15:18:20
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| I'd rather see them discontinue production of pennies and nickels altogether rather than switch to steel. Some fiber in my core cringes at the thought of magentic coinage (1943 pennies aside). One could take a string and a strong magnet, and steal from public water fountains UGH!. Do they have that problem in Canada?? |
Metalophile |
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JSutter
Penny Pincher Member
214 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2008 : 15:29:34
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ok, I saw an article today regarding this. The new penny will be "copper colored" steel. Once Congress gives the go ahead the mint has to wait 270 days to start production of steel pennies UNLESS they can come up with a cheaper alternative to steel within 90 days.
As far as the nickel it said not to expect them anytime soon because there are a number of hurdles in the legislation that the mint must jump through before producing those. Article said the #1 obstacle is that the mint must consult with the vending industry on a replacement. Seems as though most commercial vending discriminators reject magnetic coins and since steel is magnetic that's a huge obstacle to making a steel nuckel, not so much with pennies since vending machines don't take pennies.
The 95% copper pennies will be offered in all 4 reverse designs next year as numismatic items so they'll only be available through the Mint and dealers. |
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JSutter
Penny Pincher Member
214 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2008 : 15:44:08
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Her's a link. Note the Mint opposed the legislation because they want to be given full control of determining coin composition and don't believe Congress needs a say. They also call the 270 day window for going to a steel penny "unrealistically short". Which means we could see copper/zinc through 2009.
You must be logged in to see this link. |
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Metalophile
Penny Collector Member
USA
320 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2008 : 15:47:06
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IMHO the vending machine business doesn't need nickels. They just need to price items in 10 cent increments. I'm sorry, when a pack of gum is 35 cents in a vending machine, they could either price it at 30 or 40, and it wouldn't cause a stir. Quarters might cause a small problem. However, they could still be used in pairs in vending machines. They could just slap a warning sticker on vending machines and say that change is dispensed to the nearest 10 cents.
Anyone ever seen the old 1/10th cent tax tokens? My mom grew up in Mississippi, and had a few left over. Some of those were made from dense cardboard. Maybe they could mint cent tax tokens? Please, just don't call them pennies, though! |
Metalophile |
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JSutter
Penny Pincher Member
214 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2008 : 16:47:36
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| The vendng industry will still fight it though because they will say the stand to lose business by raising prices and that their machines are already configured to accept nickels. It's not just vending machines either, city buses wouldn't recognize the new nickel nor would any kind of machine set up for nickels. |
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WilliamC
Penny Collector Member
USA
471 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2008 : 17:01:41
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I know I've caught a few 2 cent Euro coins on my magnet while sorting, and I caught a 1981 German cent (at least I think it was German, it had the word Deutchland on it) and if I recall I caught an Ecuador penny too.
I think if Congress changes the law steel pennies will be done within a year. Nickels I agree pose more problems.
All I know is I need to get the copper while the getting is good. There is still no one in my vicinity that I'm aware of sorting, at least none of the banks I've been to in Northwest Mississippi are familiar with the idea.
But it won't stay this way for long... |
Sorting In Northwest Mississippi |
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misteroman
Administrator
USA
2565 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2008 : 00:19:08
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Ardent,
You think we should start putting away a few rolls of Nickels when we pick up our pennies?
Derek |
Buying CU cents!!!! Paying 1.2 unlimited amounts wanted. Can pick up if near Ohio area. |
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Cerulean
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
993 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2008 : 07:58:08
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| How do Canadian vending machines handle magnetic and non-magnetic 5 cent coins? I think the US vending industry is worrying about re-inventing the wheel. |
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penny4mythoughts
Penny Sorter Member
USA
82 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2008 : 11:18:56
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The vending industry is like any other group represented by lobbyists...they are looking out for $$ and nothing else. Of course they can change comparators and reconfigure machines to either eliminate the nickel (round to .10) or modify to accept the steel... but that would cost money and no business likes to spend money. The battle becomes a classic one, government savings versus business savings. Insert "cost" for "savings" and you have essentially the same thing on reverse. It's really like any other business up for regulation or change (highway contractors etc)/ Pretty hum-drum stuff IMO, at least the "fight" between the two.
What i do find fascinating is how this will affect all of us and the other more clandestine metal speculators out there, as well as the collecting community. I am still expecting a huge amount of collecting by more "lay" people for the 2009 penny. I think it will be like the State Quarter series and every grandma and child will want them.
Regarding nickels... If I had a bunch of money to just 'park' this is where I would do it. No sorting at all! Just put the box in a corner and you are done. Shaweet!
And one last thought.... It is not just vending machines that will have to be modified... Coinstar as well as most bank coin sorters have magnets on them. Thats where i usually find foreign coins. Could you imagine when someone dumps a bunch of steel pennies in and the shole thing stops :) |
Los Angeles is the place I call home... |
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misteroman
Administrator
USA
2565 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2008 : 12:18:37
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You wouldn't have to round up to anything.If the item was .35 just use a dime and a quarter and so on..55c is 1 quarter and 3 dimes.Might have to put up a sign saying no change smaller then .10 though.
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Buying CU cents!!!! Paying 1.2 unlimited amounts wanted. Can pick up if near Ohio area. |
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Steel coinage (How much lead time?)
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