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deleted
19 Posts |
 Posted - 03/07/2008 : 19:37:21
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Greetings gang! It's been awhile since I 've posted. I've recently relocated from Atlanta to Detroit. Was getting tired of the nice weather and good economy. The good news is my percentages are about double! Approx 16% in Atl, Approx 30% here so far. Lots more Canadians obviously and also more wheaties. I've been sorting on and off on a small scale but now with vastly greater percentage potential am considering stepping it up. The only thing holding me back is the same question I've had from the beginning and that's where Im hoping for some opinions from you guys and gals. While I do actually like sorting as a fun hobby my main motivation is to eventually make a profit some day. Realistically I figure between 5-10 times face value within 10 years, probably sooner is possible. While that sounds good on paper my question is to the practicality of being able to sell large quantities of a small coin that must be visually confirmed(pre 82). Is this question moot and the answer that they will be confirmed by weight? If that is your opinion, how exactly will that work? Who do you think will be buying? If there still is a melting ban than we can excluded smelters. How will an individual, to use the precious metals market as an example, know that they have purchased pre 82's? My point is that even at ten times face value a penny will only be worth a dime. Now a silver dime is worth about 1.40 and would be worth the effort to visually examine. Would there be weight issues as well that would prevent the shipping of copper pennies to not be very profitable due to the shipping costs? Would the selling of copper pennies then just be done on a local basis. If so where? Coin shops, craigslist, classified? Im just really trying to think ahead to how realistic and easy or difficult it will be to eventually cash out someday. I know alot depends on copper prices but I don't feel it's very realistic to imagine 20,30 or more times face value. Silver and gold have very set options of selling and I know most are here with the thought of getting in very early on the 90% silver theory. I would just love any opinion that would make me more confident of my impending increased sorting. I am 100% positive in my beliefs of a continuing base and precious metals bull market. Im not a fan of the "well at least it will allways be worth a penny", as I also believe the dollar will continue to slide. I appreaciate any feedback. Cheers to my fellow copperheads!
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lukeownzu
Penny Collector Member
364 Posts |
Posted - 03/07/2008 : 19:53:58
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| I'm sure there are still a lot of smelters. |
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HoardCopperByTheTon
Administrator
USA
6807 Posts |
Posted - 03/07/2008 : 20:02:35
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Welcome back.. I remember your handle from a post in the past. The purity question is simple. You can check it by weight for a given quantity. Any significant impurity would be revealed by the weight. You can also do random sampling of the batch and verify it with a Ryedale machine or a scale. It would be similar to the way 90% is traded now. Nobody really has the time to visually verify each silver dime in a $1000 bag of silver. It is based somewhat on reputation and trust. Legitimate sellers are not going to try to rip off their buyers. Their reputation is important to them and they like repeat business. Actually a better anology might be the selling of bags of wheat cents. A person buys a bag of wheat cents.. it doesn't take a lot of sampling to determine if the bag is all 40's and 50's, all the S cents have been cleaned out, or if there are memorials in the mix. Because of the weight, shipping is an issue for the copper.. somebody has to pay the freight. If sold locally you might get a little better price. If shipped the cost of the shipping will most likely be factored into the deal.
The selling of the copper cents is certainly possible. I have already sold and shipped over 2 tons. Some would say I may have sold some of it too cheaply.. to wait for the price to go up. But the sale of the copper paid for all of the machines to process it as well as the raw material to replace that copper in my hoard. By cycling the capital I increase the size of my hoard.
Congratulations on relocating to a much better copper mining district.. wish my yield was 30%.
One consideration if you are going to do this on any type of a serious scale.. get a Ryedale. Automation of all the processes you can automate is key to your success as it allows you to extract significantly more copper in the same amount of time. To sort or not to sort is an individual question. I am not going to try to convince you to sort.. if you don't there will be that much more copper left for the rest of us copperheads. |
If your percentages are low.. just sort more. If your percentages are high.. just sort more.
Now selling Copper pennies. 1.6x plus shipping. Limited amounts available. |
Edited by - HoardCopperByTheTon on 03/07/2008 20:07:33 |
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misteroman
Administrator
USA
2565 Posts |
Posted - 03/07/2008 : 22:19:36
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hc,
how long ago did you sell off your stuff?What did ya get for them and how much did ya sell.Just curious?
Derek |
Buying CU cents!!!! Paying 1.2 unlimited amounts wanted. Can pick up if near Ohio area. |
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HoardCopperByTheTon
Administrator
USA
6807 Posts |
Posted - 03/07/2008 : 22:47:17
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| I sold over the course of the last year through eBay (I had at least one bag up every week) and direct sales. Prices ranged from a low of $77 per bag up to $192.50. I sold about 120 bags. I gave some folks some pretty good prices on the 15-20 bag deals, but never quite as low as your current buy price. I am a willing seller at a discount off of melt price but not that big of a discount. At some prices I am a buyer, and at some prices I am a seller. I just keep adding to the hoard. Several members of this board have bought bags from me either through my ebay auctions or direct and were very pleased with the coppers I sent. I used the proceeds to buy more machines to automate my process, more unsorted pennies to replenish the hoard, and to diversify into gold and silver. |
If your percentages are low.. just sort more. If your percentages are high.. just sort more.
Now selling Copper pennies. 1.6x plus shipping. Limited amounts available. |
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misteroman
Administrator
USA
2565 Posts |
Posted - 03/07/2008 : 23:15:13
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As long as you're making money,that is what counts.I remember you saying on here about that $192 bag.If I could get that every time,I would be a much bigger hoarder.
Derek |
Buying CU cents!!!! Paying 1.2 unlimited amounts wanted. Can pick up if near Ohio area. |
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HoardCopperByTheTon
Administrator
USA
6807 Posts |
Posted - 03/08/2008 : 00:17:58
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Maybe you will be able to get that in a few years.. who knows? Of course by then it will be too late to become a big hoarder. If I could get that every time I would be a much bigger seller right now.. LOL.
As Ryedale says "Hoard copper pennies.. the market will develop" |
If your percentages are low.. just sort more. If your percentages are high.. just sort more.
Now selling Copper pennies. 1.6x plus shipping. Limited amounts available. |
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c140cessna
Penny Collector Member
USA
419 Posts |
Posted - 03/08/2008 : 07:52:46
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I'm still of the opinion that this is a 5 - 10 yr play....by then the penny will be eliminated.....once we start to see published inflation of over 10%/yr (which means real inflation will be about 15%...you will know this when mortgage rate head north of 10%...the FED rate means nothing...).
I expect copper the be $6 - $10/lb...perhaps even $15/lb sometime between 5 - 10 years. That will make the cu penny 4X to 6X...possibly 10X....this alone will drive a market like the 40% and 90% silver.
Once the penny is eliminated as a circulating coin (again, speculate 5 to 10 yrs). We will be able to easily scrap them for a profit....this market will also evolve. Perhaps there are large scale commercial hoarders right now...that are speculating or "know" through powerful connections that the penny will soon be dead...
For us small guys...you just have to be willing to make the bet...and be able to set aside a bunch of money to hoard on a large sacle. Trust me - we are not rich...we live like frugal freaks to allow us to hoard like we do...we have even turned off the 401K to divert all possible savings into the hoard. I have even sold some machine tools/other hobby items to fund the hoard. Our hoard is our entire savings capacity.....so, we are betting big on the copper penny...I hope we are right...
I'm surprised that after 1 year of power hoarding - I have not seen my impact on S.E. Michigan copper. I've been dumping $500 - $700 in pure zinc back into the system every week. The pool of pennies must be very large.
Bottom line - there is a chance we may never see a profit....but at least - I'm not holding FIAT in my "savings". |
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HoardCopperByTheTon
Administrator
USA
6807 Posts |
Posted - 03/08/2008 : 09:43:14
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I believe in the long term price of copper just as c140cessna does. As he says, none of us are rich. My strategy was simply to take some small profits now to fund the purchase of better processing equipment, to diversify into PM and to increase the size of my hoard capital so that I could purchase more unsorted pennies and build my copper hoard even bigger with increased capital. I thought as long as I can keep replacing the copper in the hoard by grabbing a few more pennnies in the bank it wouldn't hurt to let some my efforts fund a bigger pile of copper. I even cranked up production for a short time.. but at 100 boxes a week zinc dispoal became a real problem. I guess you could say I am betting on the copper penny as well.. I just hedge my bets a little.
Thank you Ryedale for making such a great machine that makes it all possible. |
If your percentages are low.. just sort more. If your percentages are high.. just sort more.
Now selling Copper pennies. 1.6x plus shipping. Limited amounts available. |
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Ardent Listener
Administrator
USA
4841 Posts |
Posted - 03/08/2008 : 10:15:20
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IMO, it's great if you can make a smaller profit off off copper pennies now. I don't think selling them for less now will in any way hold down the price of copper pennies long term. The people who are buying for less now are doing so with the intent to get more for them later.
The supply of unsorted copper pennies remains strong in general. Though some areas appear to hold higher percentages. Once the supply gets tight then it will be up to current sellers to decide if he or she wants to hold out for higer prices since it will become hard to replace one's stock.
Even if the melt ban remains in effect for a few more years, I think we will start to see coin shops or PM metal dealers starting to deal in copper coins. That may be even more true if gold and silver prices remain high or higher. It will be a lower cost product in which to deal in.
A word of caution though. Don't be shocked if we see a big 'correction' in the price of copper and other base metals. If it happens then you will once again read that the copper bull market is over. If we are not seeing a slow down of the world economy and a strong dollar then I will have serious doubts that it really is over. But many fast buck copper speculators will get pushed out.
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Think positive. |
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NotABigDeal
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
3890 Posts |
Posted - 03/08/2008 : 11:11:27
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I have never sold any copper pennies. As long as I have space, can get boxes/bags of mixed pennies, and my trusty Ryedale keeps running, I'll keep hoarding....I too see a correction coming in copper.
Deal |
Live free or die.
Plain and simple.
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your council or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen."
- Samuel Adams |
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c140cessna
Penny Collector Member
USA
419 Posts |
Posted - 03/08/2008 : 12:53:54
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quote:
Originally posted by NotABigDeal
I have never sold any copper pennies. As long as I have space, can get boxes/bags of mixed pennies, and my trusty Ryedale keeps running, I'll keep hoarding....I too see a correction coming in copper.
Deal
I asked this question of Jim Pupla (You must be logged in to see this link.)- he has a fantastic weekly economic/investment program that all should listen to...best information on the web....anyway, I called in and asked his thought on copper going forward....it even made his question/answer session and he put it on his broadcast! If you want to listen, it is on 2-23-08, part 3 "The Q Line" at 4:20.....I asked his thoughts on Copper in light of a possible global economic downturn....Puplava was very bullish on copper....stated there are over $2T Dollars of Infrastructural Investment/Building going on in China and the Middle East....says the price of copper will only be heading up...way up....
I agree.....if it is electric....it demands copper. I do not see copper heading down anytime soon ...esp with the dollar falling apart... |
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2 year sorter..same question..
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