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Cody8404
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
602 Posts |
 Posted - 02/18/2008 : 12:01:56
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What is your opinion on Gold, Silver, Copper, and Diamonds?
I’ve been reading Nickelless’ topic about gold grams and wondered what you think is the best for what.
I recall a scene from Shindler’s List in which a family of Jews is standing around stuffing diamonds into bread to swallow for their planed escape from the Gestapo.
I see the store of value in the following ways.
Diamonds
Most valuable would be diamonds, but with the ability to copy these and my own inability to tell the real ones from the fakes I do not see this as a good store of value to me. I also do not see were one would trade these should the need arise. You must have a jeweler that wants them to be able to turn them into a more liquid medium.
Very Precious Metals – Platinum, Palladium, etc
These are again so valuable and so rare that you must have a specialty shop to be able to trade them for a more liquid asset.
Gold
Gold is very rare and getting very pricy, but as a general rule most people have seen gold and know what it looks and feels like. Many of us wear a gold ring. It has value and could be traded easily with many people. There is the ability to make some other metals to look like gold even when they are bogus. In world history gold has been the rich man’s medium of trade and wealth preservation. Gold has both an intrinsic and a face value. The gold coins the U.S. puts out have a $5, $5, $10, $25, $50 right on them. Yes, it is meant to be confusing, and not easily converted. The $5 gold commemorative has 0.24 ounce gold. The $5 gold bullion coin has 1/10th ounce. The $10 has ¼ ounce gold. The $25 has ½ ounce gold. And the $50 has an ounce of gold.
Silver
Silver has been the average man’s money for millennium. Most people know what silver is and what it looks like, although most Americans have been fooled with nickel for the last quarter century. Silver has value and could be traded easily with many people. Silver has both an intrinsic and a face value. We have junk silver from the days when silver was used for money. In the U.S. we also have silver commemorative coins with 0.77 ounces of silver in them and the silver Eagles with 1 ounce of silver, and both show a face value of $1.
Copper
Copper has been the medium of exchange for most people for most of history. It has value, and is worth so little that copying has not been worth trying to convince people that other things are copper until the last twenty years or so. It is sad to watch my own and other governments make coins and try to convince people that they are worth their weight in copper. The reason that I have collected a few coppers is that I see this as the medium we will use to begin to make a new monetary system.
Food, Clothing, other usable and tradables
These will be needed for use as much as trade. Some are easier to store than others. These get into a barter system of trade, which by nature it very difficult to standardize.
I have put a poll question with the same topic.
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Awake, O kings of the earth! Come ye, O, come ye, with your gold and your silver, to the help of my people, to the house of the daughters of Zion, to the help of the people of the God of this Land even Jesus Christ. |
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fiatboy
Administrator
912 Posts |
 Posted - 02/18/2008 : 12:45:24
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Unless you have extremely high-end specimens, diamonds are a not a good store of value. Colored stones are better, but not as good as metals.
(As I write this, my girlfriend is telling me to invest in tanzanite. It's a 1000 times rarer than diamond. She comes from a family of gemstone afficianados and lapidaries, and they're really into tanzanite.) Colored stones like rubies, emeralds, and sapphires in HIGH GRADES maintain their value---although you may have to spend thousands of dollars to get a good stone.
Historically, diamonds have only been good for bartering, bribing, and wooing women.
When diamond rings are sold as scrap, the diamonds are usually burned up in the melt.
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"Bart, it's not about how many stocks you have, it's about how much copper wire you can get out of the building." --- Homer Simpson |
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horgad
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1641 Posts |
Posted - 02/18/2008 : 12:55:38
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I think all the important points on diamonds have been made. In summary:
Plus side:
1. If the government starts confiscating wealth and you are trying to flee a country, nothing beats diamonds.
Negative side:
1. Could possibly take years of learning the market and the product to the point where you are an investor and not a sucker. :)
A viable alternative to diamonds is a foreign account or safety deposit box. In other words, move some wealth now while the moving is good and then move yourself later if needed... |
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wolvesdad
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
2164 Posts |
Posted - 02/19/2008 : 09:51:34
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Read Ted Butler....in some ways he seems a bit out there, but I am convinced that he is working on a solid reasoning foundation.
THUS: SILVER IS THE WAY TO GO. IT is rarer than Gold in Above ground sources! IT is consumed in Industry and will always have a need/demand. Many 'new technologys' including Medical antibacterial properties and SOLAR PANELS are utilizing it!!
Plus, it is CHEAP..... IF 1980 is a reference, GOld hit $850, SILVER HIT $40!!! Gold is now $920, silver is only $17.50.
Buy and hold silver....BUt PLEASE, don't pay more than a 2% premium!! On ebay and some other places you can find it very near silver content....if you are lucky, less than silver content!! |
"May your percentages ever increase!" |
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cyberdan
Penny Collector Member
USA
289 Posts |
Posted - 02/19/2008 : 11:01:39
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Diamonds are are very overpriced and controlled by a few large corporations. You would never be able to get prices good enough on diamonds to qualify as an investment. If you see a $1000 diamond in a store you know that store probably paid around $200 - $250
I think antiques would be a better way to go. But then you really need to know that market also. Just watch antiques roadshow. |
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horgad
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1641 Posts |
Posted - 02/19/2008 : 13:25:10
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Here is some advise on gold, silver, platinum, pallidium, and copper that you would thank me for if you had a time machine. Buy it yesterday  . |
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pencilvanian
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
2209 Posts |
Posted - 02/19/2008 : 16:49:40
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Rather than buy diamonds, buy rubies.
Diamonds are losing their mystique with competitors forcing up the supply and DeBeers losing its monopoly. Chattam Rubies are man made, but have an additive in them that causes them to glow under an ultra violet light.
The older rubies from Southeast Asia (Burma or Thailand, I can't recall which) fetch higher prices due to their color of pigeon blood red, the highest quality color of ruby.
Before buying any gemstone, make sure you are buying from a AGI jeweler (American Gemologist Institute) someone whose reputation is more valuable to them than the stones they sell.
Be honest with the AGI jeweler, tell him or her why you want the stone and you would prefer the stone unmounted, not in a ring or necklace.
Ask the jeweler to show you (through a loupe or microscope) why the stone is so valuable, the cut, clarity, color, the carat and the few if any flaws in the stone.
Gemstones ARE NOT indestructable. Diamonds Do get chipped if handled improperly. It isn't like a gold ring where a jeweler can repair the damage, once a gemstone is chipped or cracked, it either loses most of its value or is cut down to a smaller carat, but this is done only with the most valuable of stones.
Don't be afraid to talk to the AGI jeweler and ask questions.
Remember, when you ask someone for their advice and their wisdom you are flattering them without them knowing it. They say flattery will get you no where, but in real life that is rarely the case.
Though diversifying into gemstones is one idea to preserve your wealth, but like every other investment, you must proceed cautiously or pay with your hard earned money for your mistakes.
Sorry for the long post but I thought you should know a little about gemstone buying. |
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fiatboy
Administrator
912 Posts |
Posted - 02/19/2008 : 19:19:32
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| I'd take a nice Burmese ruby over gold any day. |
"Bart, it's not about how many stocks you have, it's about how much copper wire you can get out of the building." --- Homer Simpson |
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TenBears
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1021 Posts |
Posted - 02/20/2008 : 09:47:43
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"Historically, diamonds have only been good for bartering, bribing, and wooing women."
Isn't that the damn truth. |
"Rich," the Old Man said dreamily, "is not baying after what you can't have. Rich is having the time to do what you want to do. Rich is a little whiskey to drink and some food to eat and a roof over your head and a fish pole and a boat and a gun and a dollar for a box of shells. Rich is not owing any money to anybody, and not spending what you haven't got." Robert Ruark
there are too wild Indians...
there are too wild Indians...
there are too wild Indians...-----still taunted
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Ardent Listener
Administrator
USA
4841 Posts |
Posted - 02/20/2008 : 18:00:42
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You must be logged in to see this link.
Lab grown or natural? You decide. |
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Think positive. |
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jondude
New Member
5 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2008 : 19:36:12
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| wow guys i never would have thought like that. |
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mickeyman
Penny Pincher Member
Canada
243 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2008 : 21:11:03
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The main problem with diamonds is their divisibility (or rather lack of same). Gold has been used as money, often (especially) as small necklaces, where you can snap off a link or two if you need to buy some food. What do you do if you want a loaf of bread and all you have is a big honking diamond?
Recognition of diamonds is also a problem. The new lab-grown diamonds can be superior to those found in nature--it is only a trick of marketing that convinces us otherwise. Debeers and other companies mark their diamonds with microscopic sigils to signify that they are "genuine and natural". As soon as some clever company starts marketing lab-grown diamonds with forged symbols to first the Chinese market, then the rest of the world, diamonds will be finished as a store of wealth, unless it is at a much lower level.
On the surface, silver would seem to be as good a bet as gold, but historically it has not done well in times of turmoil. There was an article on gold-eagle about two years ago (I can't find it just now) which pointed out that during the great hyperinflation in Germany, the gold-silver ratio stayed more or less constant (i.e. both provided equivalent protection of wealth) until a Communist putsch attempt through the population into a panic. People really thought Soviet-style revolution was at hand, and the price of gold relative to silver suddenly skyrocketed. The reasoning here was that if you had to leave your home and flee for your lives, it was easier to carry your wealth in the form of gold than silver. |
Not all who wander are lost. |
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wolvesdad
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
2164 Posts |
Posted - 02/27/2008 : 00:18:35
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Mickey: You are right about the the weight thing, but the thing is, Gold is not 'that' rare, silver is actually in less supply than Gold.... Plus, unless we are taken over by a dictator, a smaller denomination for barter is needed...IE Silver, (copper too of course, but a couple Cu cents buy a couple slices of bread, a silver dime buys two loaves, two or three gold eagles buy a months supply)
And plus, Historically silver to gold was set at about 22 to 1, in the silver spike in 1980 I think it went to about the same... and just today it dropped two poins, from 52 to 1 down to 50 to 1.
I tell you, unless nuclear holocost hits, Silver is going to pay out huge in the next 3, 5 and 40 years! (But in consolation prize, copper may have the most growth potential...ie greatest % growth in value) |
"May your percentages ever increase!" |
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Your opinion on Gold, Silver, Copper, and
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