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starwarsgeek171
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
651 Posts |
 Posted - 02/13/2008 : 12:05:35
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I am thinking of buying the 2008 Eagle (1 ounce coin). I've heard that the mintage numbers may be lower than average, and that it could even be the end of the Golden Eagles. I'd don't mind paying a premium, or the high price of gold right now (which is not really so high when you adjust for inflation), because this coin seems to have future numismatic potential.
The other option is to save the cash for a fund to purchase the 1995 West Point Silver Eagle ($4,500+). Only around 30,000 made!
Any advice?
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ME CO
Penny Pincher Member
USA
199 Posts |
Posted - 02/13/2008 : 19:21:04
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Don't ask for advice here- you know how many boxes of pennies you can get with a grand haha just kidding. If those are your only two choices, a beautiful gold eagle or a $4500+ ounce of silver, get the gold you'll be much better off. I don't care if they had only made 1 '95W it ain't worth $4500- save that $hit for people with more money than brains.
My .02 worth, HH Mark |
"54/54/2280" |
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fiatboy
Administrator
912 Posts |
 Posted - 02/13/2008 : 20:43:42
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| I won't even pretend to know what's best, but I will tell you that there are MANY coins with mintages far less than 30,000 that also cost far less than the '95 W-SAE. 30,000 is a high mintage number for modern numismatic coins. |
"Bart, it's not about how many stocks you have, it's about how much copper wire you can get out of the building." --- Homer Simpson |
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192 Posts |
Posted - 02/13/2008 : 20:47:30
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The coin dealer that I go to also deals in stamps.
He has a great knowledge of rare coins and stamps and I am simply going to repeat here what he told me in person, without adding any of my own commentary.
He said,
"The rare coin market is created and then destroyed and then re-created by a really small number of people.
I'm not saying that they collude or conspire, but the fact is that there are not many people involved in this part of the market.
The prices swing widely. If you love to gamble or if you can remain solvent for longer than the market can remain irrational, then you've got some homework to do.
If you can't handle the wide swings and the risks of a tiny market dominated by a handful of individuals, buy common coins instead."
I may not have him down exactly word for word, but I'm not adding or subtracting anything significant from what he told me. |
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The market can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent.
John Maynard Keynes,
English economist (1883 - 1946)
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NotABigDeal
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
3890 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2008 : 07:05:29
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$4500 buys a lot of "normal" silver, or over four plus ounces of gold. That is what I would do, but if owning one $4500 coin is your thing, then more power to you.
Deal |
Live free or die.
Plain and simple.
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your council or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen."
- Samuel Adams |
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MaDeuce
Penny Pincher Member
USA
124 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2008 : 10:41:08
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It depends upon your goal in the purchase.
If you enjoy rare coins and have sufficient other rainy day funds, then there is no harm in the '95. You may or may not make money on it, but that's not critical, as you are collecting for the enjoyment.
If, like many people here, you are looking for a very strong hedge against a severe economic downturn, put your money in either US gold or silver bullion coins. Collectibles, like the '95, only have value as long as there are other people that enjoy collecting and that put a premium on rarity. Bullion, on the other hand, has intrinsic value that is not dependent upon the fickle nature of collectors. In doomsday economic scenarios, all coins are worth only their intrinsic value (i.e., an ounce of silver, an ounce of gold, etc.) and you'd find the value of the collectible '95 to be the same as that of any other silver eagle. |
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El Dee
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
547 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2008 : 11:01:40
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DON'T waste your $ on a new silver eagle just because the mintage is low. Pay bullion price for bullion coins. Period.
Pull out your Red Book and look at mintages for 1930's commemorative halves. Then notice how much they're worth. Low mintage doesn't necessarily translate to value - there must be demand as well.
If you're going to drop $4500 on numismatic silver, buy a BUNC Standing Liberty or something with a 70 year track record. Then, like Ma said, you have to consider that the collector market waxes and wanes. |
Trust the government? Ask an Indian. |
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7 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2008 : 11:47:11
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| Strong agreement with ElDee here. That much would get me over 12 tubes of bullion eagles to throw on the pile... When and if our house of cards tumbles you've got yourself a 1 ounce Eagle, regardless! But if that makes you happy and fits the budget, save up and grab it! |
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starwarsgeek171
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
651 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2008 : 19:44:41
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I have my fair share of PMs and continue to make purchases as often as possible, so I was actually looking for a numismatic hedge. Remember, there can only truly be around 30,000 complete Silver Eagle sets put together, and since there is a possibility that "things" could remain "normal," it couldn't hurt to make a higher-end play. I really feel that there will be future demand for this coin; especially by the time my son would receive it.
El Dee, what is the BUNC Standing Liberty? Is it the bare breasted quarter? If so, I've always had my eye on that one, yet I thought that that coin would be financially prohibitive.
The best purchase, in terms of this forum, would probably be the 1909 VDB-S! My wife would certainly call me the "Penny Man" then.
Welcome, SilverSlugger. |
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El Dee
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
547 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2008 : 20:22:57
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BUNC is just coin collector lingo for bright uncirculated. UNC is uncirculated.
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Trust the government? Ask an Indian. |
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HoardCopperByTheTon
Administrator
USA
6807 Posts |
 Posted - 02/14/2008 : 21:23:29
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quote:
Originally posted by starwarsgeek171
I have my fair share of PMs and continue to make purchases as often as possible, so I was actually looking for a numismatic hedge. Remember, there can only truly be around 30,000 complete Silver Eagle sets put together, and since there is a possibility that "things" could remain "normal," it couldn't hurt to make a higher-end play.
And if everybody in China wanted one..  Truth is, everybody in the US doesn't want one. The high price for a "created rarity" caused a lot of folks to decide not to collect Silver Eagles. I know it got me to stop collecting them. Now I just hoard them for bullion.
In reality, 30,000 is not exactly rare.. not even scarce. There are plenty of other "real" collector coins that would be a much better value.
If you want a "numismatic hedge" save up your money and buy as many boxes of new pennies as you can next year at face value. |
If your percentages are low.. just sort more. If your percentages are high.. just sort more.
Now selling Copper pennies. 1.6x plus shipping. Limited amounts available. |
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7 Posts |
Posted - 02/15/2008 : 06:41:04
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Thanks, Starwars. Thinking about this further I think if I had the spare $ to throw at a FULL, COMPLETE set of silver Eagles I probably would for the kids sake...I mean real spare $, the kind I wouldn't miss in the family budget or that wouldnt interfere with my other recreational activities (making my glittering shiny stash bigger). The upside seems possibly very big if we are still a functioning economy in 20 years (and I certainly hope we are).
But HoardCopper has a huuuuuge point on the numismatic hedge side!
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TenBears
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1021 Posts |
Posted - 02/15/2008 : 13:23:49
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| You might consider buying graded Gold Buffalos, either 69 or 70. Gold Buffalos started in 2006, and you could still get the entire collection (06, 07 and 08) for about $3,000. That's much better than plunking down $4,500 for an ounce of silver. If SHTF, you didn't pay much of a premium to get graded coins, and you would still have several ounces of gold. At the same time, you can make a numismatic play for one or more of your children by having the whole set. |
"Rich," the Old Man said dreamily, "is not baying after what you can't have. Rich is having the time to do what you want to do. Rich is a little whiskey to drink and some food to eat and a roof over your head and a fish pole and a boat and a gun and a dollar for a box of shells. Rich is not owing any money to anybody, and not spending what you haven't got." Robert Ruark
there are too wild Indians...
there are too wild Indians...
there are too wild Indians...-----still taunted
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Cerulean
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
993 Posts |
Posted - 02/15/2008 : 13:39:16
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Another thought about the 2008 coins, precious metals or otherwise...
If you're counting on an '08 coin having low mintages, all bets are off until about December. We're still only 15% through the year so far. The guv'ment has reserved the right to radically change their mintage plans before the year is out. |
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2010 First Finds Contest
Are you a Buffalo Hunter?
Wanna take seignorage away from the Fed? Spend *any* coins!
We cannot afford this government.
Cerulean's Standing Offer: $3/lb shipped for foreign coins |
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horgad
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1641 Posts |
Posted - 02/15/2008 : 14:00:05
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I am not a numismatic kind of guy, but if I was I would look for something that has a strong worldwide demand. A coin with only US collector appeal could easily get the tar beaten out of it if the US slides into a stagflation and/or a depression.
The first thing that pops into my head that likely has a broader market would be ancient Roman coins...though I have heard they are risky because of new finds popping up. In any case, I really don't have a handle on which coins have international appeal and which ones don't. So I can't really say anything about particular coins.
Also, my feelings really apply to just about everything collectible where the premium is based primarily on US collector demand. Given the current economy, I'm wary of all of it... |
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TenBears
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1021 Posts |
Posted - 02/15/2008 : 14:55:22
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| A complete set of non-graded Silver Eagles would also be nice. Mintproducts has the complete set for less than $500. That set would satisfy both a bullion and numismatic collector. |
"Rich," the Old Man said dreamily, "is not baying after what you can't have. Rich is having the time to do what you want to do. Rich is a little whiskey to drink and some food to eat and a roof over your head and a fish pole and a boat and a gun and a dollar for a box of shells. Rich is not owing any money to anybody, and not spending what you haven't got." Robert Ruark
there are too wild Indians...
there are too wild Indians...
there are too wild Indians...-----still taunted
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pencilvanian
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
2209 Posts |
Posted - 02/15/2008 : 21:35:36
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I myself would also say steer clear of the newer bullion coins since they were really meant to be just that-bullion.
How many Krugerrands were minted in 2007? How many Mexican Libertads were really minted in 1947 and how can you tell the difference from the restrikes? (The Mexican mint has been producing restrikes with the 1947 date for many years.)
Low mintages do not always mean high demand, especially for newer coins, that goes double for coins being pushed as a future collectable.
US Bullion coins were produced to compete against the Krugerrand during the days of Apartheid and were never touted as anything other than a bullion coin until recently.
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The following might be off topic but worth considering for future coin purchases...
During the 1960's during the silver/gold/monetary crisis rocking the financial world, the list of coins that the high end coin dealers wanted to buy were the following-
US Gold Dollar Coins
US Three Dollar Gold Coins
US Quarter Eagle Gold coins
US Half Eagle Coins
US Eagle Coins
US Double Eagle Coins
US Pioneer and Territorial Gold Coins
Foreign Gold coins
Ancient gold and silver Coins
US Half Cents, Cents, Half dimes, dimes Quarters, Half Dollars Silver Dollars But only if they were Uncirculated or Proof
This was a wish list for dealers who had ready customers for such coins.
A US Gold Coin, pre 1933, is still widely accepted around the world as a recognized and accepted form of gold. It was once said that during the 1930's until 1974 a gold buyer could go to Switzerland and buy any US Gold coin they wanted since many of the US Gold coins flowed out of the US.
I would go with a rare or semi rare gold coin for the price range of $4,500, better yet, buy several pre 1933 gold coins.
For the numismatic angle, consider a Three dollar gold coin or two. These seem to hold their numismatic value fairly well and these coins definitely had low mintages (most years the mintage was under 30,000) unlike the 2008 Eagle where there is supposedly going to be low mintages. The three dollar coins were meant for spending, not collecting, but the odd denomination made them unpopular with the public.
I have nothing against the Roman or Greek Coins, but the market and the buyers for Roman/Greco coins is limited, and there are counterfiets around, both recent restrikes and fakes made when the Roman and Greek Coins were coins of the realm. It takes a sharp eye to detect some of the better fakes, even some experts can be tricked.
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Tourney64
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1035 Posts |
Posted - 02/16/2008 : 07:51:49
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| You have a much smaller number of buyers for the $4,500 Silver. Take the gold. WTSHTF the $4,500 will only be worth the silver content. |
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starwarsgeek171
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
651 Posts |
Posted - 02/16/2008 : 09:16:28
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| The Gold Buffalos are certainly a tempting thought. |
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fiatboy
Administrator
912 Posts |
Posted - 02/16/2008 : 15:25:24
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| For what it's worth, I just sold several 2006 gold buffalos, and neither of the three dealers I sold them to paid any kind of premium for them---just spot. That one of buffies was slabbed MS-70 didn't make a differece. I shopped it around to five different dealers, and none were willing to pay a premium. |
"Bart, it's not about how many stocks you have, it's about how much copper wire you can get out of the building." --- Homer Simpson |
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starwarsgeek171
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
651 Posts |
Posted - 02/17/2008 : 08:35:03
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| fiatboy, that doesn't sound promising at all. What's a guy to do with his fiat currency these days? Nobody has commented on the 2008 Eagle yet... |
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NotABigDeal
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
3890 Posts |
Posted - 02/17/2008 : 10:31:05
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I spent some currency on some gold this weekend. Felt fine about it, although I buy ONLY for bullion value. Actually one of my pick-ups was my first Krug. Didn't have one....now I do. I wonder if your dealers, (fiatboy) or all dealers are not paying premiums due to the relation of the high price of gold, and the crappyness of the economy? Maybe they figure that people need money and gold is high, so the people will take what seems like a good amount of money....dunno. Haven't sold any gold for a while.
As far as playing the mintage numbers with the '08 Eagle, I would take Cerulean's advice and wait until you know the mintage numbers for sure.
Deal |
Live free or die.
Plain and simple.
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your council or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen."
- Samuel Adams |
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7 Posts |
Posted - 02/18/2008 : 19:31:22
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Deal, Those krugs are a great purchase, at least here in my neck of the woods. My 2 dealers save the ones they get under an ounce and give me first crack at them..sometimes I pick them up and sometimes I pass cause I'm in a silver mood. They are always less than AE's and have been around since the 70's, so their content and purity is never questioned, and for pure gold bullion buys, they are dollar for dollar the best deal out there. Keep picking them up when you can! I have them all the way down to 1/10 ounce! |
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Know Common Cents
Penny Pincher Member
195 Posts |
Posted - 02/18/2008 : 22:22:21
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| I guess that if I had the money for the 1995 W (proof) Silver Eagle, I'd be looking at options other than that. Must have been around the year 2000, but I had a chance to buy 3 of those for $600 each and turned them down. Do I regret that now? Sure I do. The market and the economy was different then. Today is an entirely different ball game. You need to be forward thinking and determine what will hold its value during uncertain times like these. I'd go for the gold. Some should be of the one-tenth and quarter-ounce variety coins, but I don't see anything special about a 2008 Gold Eagle compared to any other date. Someone else mentioned that when they're being sold back to a dealer, it becomes irrelevant whether they're graded MS 70 or raw. You betcha. It becomes a bullion buy for the dealer. I've seen TV gold coin shoppers come into a couple of local coin dealers with their MS 70 multi-holder sets trying to cash out. It's a pretty painful transaction for them to learn that the grading and the holders are meaningless. Find a dealer who you trust and buy the gold. You'll pay a modest premium over that day's spot price, but if you believe that the the yellow metal is going to continue to increase in value, that extra $30-50 will be chewed up fast. Just one hoarders opinion, but I do practice what I preach. |
Here in Wisconsin, we have some of the highest property and gasoline taxes in the US. We're squeezed so much, I have to make my daughter wear penny boxes for shoes. At least she has an endless supply. |
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starwarsgeek171
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
651 Posts |
Posted - 02/19/2008 : 08:43:44
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| The 1/2 price sale on copper pennies just keeps looking better and better. |
Edited by - starwarsgeek171 on 02/19/2008 14:02:32 |
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86 Posts |
Posted - 02/19/2008 : 13:42:11
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quote:
Originally posted by starwarsgeek171
The 1/2 price sale on copper pennies just keep looking better and better.
Buy nickels. With a 7 to 5 ratio to it's face value, you cannot go wrong. |
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2008 Gold Eagle
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