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Shattered
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
523 Posts |
 Posted - 01/01/2010 : 19:42:54
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Does anyone buy copper bars? They have and extremely high premium but I have read that "investment grade" copper is actually worth more. I'm new to keeping metals as investment so I don't really know much about the subject. I Had some Christmas money from grandparents and bought a few bars but are they really good as an investment or are they not worth it? Either way I like them for the novelty, but if there is anyone who is more experienced on the subject I would love some insight and information.
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"I need metal in my life, just like an eagle needs to fly."
-Joseph DeMaio : Die For Metal |
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jadedragon
Administrator
Canada
3788 Posts |
Posted - 01/01/2010 : 19:55:57
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Welcome to realcent Shattered. Yes many of us buy copper bars. Some, like Market Harmony, make copper bars. I wrote a You must be logged in to see this link. you might find interesting.
Yes, investment grade copper bars have a high premium over spot since it takes time and money to fabricate the bars and make them all pretty and shiny. (Paper money carries a premium over its ingredients too). You can recover (or better) the premium when you sell them later - here or on eBay. If you are getting into copper bars think of them like collecting rare stamps or coins rather then as just junk bullion. We have copper pennies that sell as junk bullion here and at places like You must be logged in to see this link.
Nate at You must be logged in to see this link. and Market Harmony are our resident experts on copper bars and I'm sure they will chime in soon.
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“The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” – George Bernard Shaw.
Why Copper Bullion ~~~ Interview with Silver Bullion Producer Market Harmony
Passive Income blog |
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Shattered
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
523 Posts |
Posted - 01/01/2010 : 20:01:11
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Thanks jadedragon. I actually bought my bars from the Copper Cave. I have seen MH's bars and really like them but they were sold out when I made my purchase.
If I continue to buy more I will definitely purchase from the Copper Cave again but I am also interested to see where others buy their copper bars from. |
"I need metal in my life, just like an eagle needs to fly."
-Joseph DeMaio : Die For Metal |
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jadedragon
Administrator
Canada
3788 Posts |
Posted - 01/01/2010 : 20:08:28
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Market Harmony's bars seem to sell pretty fast. You can also order direct at You must be logged in to see this link. but then you can't combine shipping on other manufacturer's products like you can with Copper Cave. I've got a bunch of MH silver. Real nice stuff.
The Market Area (for members only) here at realcent is another good place to watch for copper bars. The members of realcent are responsible for the creation of the Copper Bullion eBay category as well. |
“The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” – George Bernard Shaw.
Why Copper Bullion ~~~ Interview with Silver Bullion Producer Market Harmony
Passive Income blog |
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HoardCopperByTheTon
Administrator
USA
6807 Posts |
Posted - 01/01/2010 : 20:19:43
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I get my copper bars from the Copper Cave also. The Copper Cave also carries MH bars as part of its inventory.. so you can have the best of both worlds. I look at them more as a novelty. For serious copper hoarding it is hard to beat copper cents.. which can still be obtained below melt.  |
If your percentages are low.. just sort more. If your percentages are high.. just sort more.
Now selling Copper pennies. 1.6x plus shipping. Limited amounts available. |
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Market Harmony
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1274 Posts |
Posted - 01/01/2010 : 20:34:04
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Welcome Shattered!
It sounds like you've already figured out most of the market dynamics of copper bullion. The premium above spot is significant, but those premiums are on all copper products. The only copper that you can get for spot or less is junk, LME futures contracts (you have to buy tons at a time), or sort your change for copper pennies.
As a novelty item, the premium continues to get carried over from seller to buyer throughout the life of the product. There are advantages to this, such as that if the premium stays the same, then the only changing factor is the spot price.
Some other things to consider:
- Spot price of copper could eventually exceed the initial price paid.
- Interest and rarity increase selling price.
- No matter what, the bullion is always worth at least spot.
- This is a relatively new market. As it expands, liquidity increases.
- Various products are currently available. Shop around to see what you like best, and enjoy your purchases.
Hopefully, you'll be the proud owner of some of the products that are made by my company. |
goto the new and improved realcent: http://realcent.org |
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jadedragon
Administrator
Canada
3788 Posts |
Posted - 01/01/2010 : 20:53:28
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| You must be logged in to see this link. Here is a copper bar auction that ended yesterday. They bars made in 2008 being resold at a premium. Lots of interest here. |
“The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” – George Bernard Shaw.
Why Copper Bullion ~~~ Interview with Silver Bullion Producer Market Harmony
Passive Income blog |
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natsb88
Administrator
USA
1850 Posts |
Posted - 01/01/2010 : 21:08:43
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Looks like the initial questions were pretty well covered.  Thanks for the business Shattered! |
Nate
The Copper Cave
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Shattered
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
523 Posts |
Posted - 01/01/2010 : 22:27:09
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Thanks for all the great info guys!
Another question I forgot about; my bars are sealed in plastic. Is it better to leave them sealed or is it safe to take them out?
I couldn't resist and went ahead and opened one of my 1 pound bars. |
"I need metal in my life, just like an eagle needs to fly."
-Joseph DeMaio : Die For Metal |
Edited by - Shattered on 01/01/2010 22:28:21 |
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Market Harmony
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1274 Posts |
Posted - 01/01/2010 : 22:32:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Shattered
Thanks for all the great info guys!
Another question I forgot about; my bars are sealed in plastic. Is it better to leave them sealed or is it safe to take them out?
I couldn't resist and went ahead and opened one of my 1 pound bars.
Copper loves oxygen... loves it. This means that an cupric oxide layer will form on exposed copper. This is also known as patina. The first stage is a brownish tone, but eventually, and over a long period of time, it will turn green. I like to ship my copper fresh, so the customer receives shiny bars.
It won't work for irregular surfaces, but a thin wax layering will thwart the oxide from forming. |
goto the new and improved realcent: http://realcent.org |
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n/a
deleted
5 Posts |
Posted - 01/01/2010 : 23:18:06
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Copper isnt a good investment in small qtys, try to sell it to you local pawn shop or coin dealer and they will tell you to take it to a scrap yard. And the scrap yard will pay you probably $2.00 a pound if you are lucky.
Its plain old copper, they done even pay a premium for oxygen free copper which is the best copper on earth.
The company I work for buys over a 10 million a year in copper.
Some people have been buying bars of melted pennys thinking that if copper goes up the scarp yard will pay them, aint gonna happen chumps.
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Gr33nday43
New Member
Uzbekistan
10 Posts |
Posted - 01/01/2010 : 23:28:25
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| Why won't the scrap yard buy those melted bars? |
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jadedragon
Administrator
Canada
3788 Posts |
Posted - 01/01/2010 : 23:44:50
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| Melting pennies is silly. I know what is in a copper penny - but I can't verify what is in a blob of melted pennies. Collectable stamps don't scrap well either. |
“The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” – George Bernard Shaw.
Why Copper Bullion ~~~ Interview with Silver Bullion Producer Market Harmony
Passive Income blog |
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Gr33nday43
New Member
Uzbekistan
10 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2010 : 00:29:55
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| Tell that to the eBay bidders. If it was legal and I had the capabilities without a doubt I would be melting my pennies down and reselling them for the prices people are paying these days. |
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natsb88
Administrator
USA
1850 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2010 : 07:49:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Gr33nday43
Tell that to the eBay bidders. If it was legal and I had the capabilities without a doubt I would be melting my pennies down and reselling them for the prices people are paying these days.
I don't foresee anybody standing in line to buy 95% pure copper bars. Everything I sell is .999 fine, as are the bars on eBay. Copper pennies are a great way to accumulate bulk copper at a low cost, but there are limitations on what you can do with them. They are best left intact and traded as coin bullion, much like 90% silver coins. 90% silver coins are bought and sold everyday without the blink of an eye, but how often do you see 90% silver bars? |
Nate
The Copper Cave
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dakota1955
1000+ Penny Miser Member
2212 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2010 : 10:09:50
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| good question and glad to have you on the fourm |
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n/a
deleted
5 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2010 : 14:09:49
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the bars are not .999 fine, they are .990 fine
only oxygen free copper is .999 fine and It would cost you $8.00 a pound to buy in tonage
.995 copper is the same copper in your home plumbing CDA-110 or CDA-122 for tube/pipe
its just copper.
copper.org
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Corsair
Penny Hoarding Member
811 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2010 : 14:18:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Oxygenfreecopper
the bars are not .999 fine, they are .990 fine
only oxygen free copper is .999 fine and It would cost you $8.00 a pound to buy in tonage
.995 copper is the same copper in your home plumbing CDA-110 or CDA-122 for tube/pipe
its just copper.
copper.org
If Market Harmony and Natsb88 say that their products are 99.9% copper, then I am going to believe that their products are 99.9% copper. |
So long, Realcent 1. Come visit us at Realcent.org! |
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giddyup99
Penny Pincher Member
USA
154 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2010 : 14:53:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Oxygenfreecopper
Copper isnt a good investment in small qtys, try to sell it to you local pawn shop or coin dealer and they will tell you to take it to a scrap yard. And the scrap yard will pay you probably $2.00 a pound if you are lucky.
Its plain old copper, they done even pay a premium for oxygen free copper which is the best copper on earth.
The company I work for buys over a 10 million a year in copper.
Some people have been buying bars of melted pennys thinking that if copper goes up the scarp yard will pay them, aint gonna happen chumps.
I've never heard of anyone buying bars in hopes of sending them to the scrap yard. No one in their right mind would pay the premium charged for bars and then scrap them. |
Experience is what you get when you don't get what you want. |
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giddyup99
Penny Pincher Member
USA
154 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2010 : 14:56:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Oxygenfreecopper
the bars are not .999 fine, they are .990 fine
only oxygen free copper is .999 fine and It would cost you $8.00 a pound to buy in tonage
.995 copper is the same copper in your home plumbing CDA-110 or CDA-122 for tube/pipe
its just copper.
copper.org
I've never seen this "oxygen free" distinction before. What applications would benefit from this extra refining? What does the extra .09 in purity do for them? |
Experience is what you get when you don't get what you want. |
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Bluegill
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1964 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2010 : 15:00:13
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quote:
Originally posted by giddyup99
I've never seen this "oxygen free" distinction before. What applications would benefit from this extra refining? What does the extra .09 in purity do for them?
It has been posted on this forum before not too long ago... If I can find the thread I will copy & paste the link.
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natsb88
Administrator
USA
1850 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2010 : 16:34:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Oxygenfreecopper
the bars are not .999 fine, they are .990 fine
only oxygen free copper is .999 fine and It would cost you $8.00 a pound to buy in tonage
.995 copper is the same copper in your home plumbing CDA-110 or CDA-122 for tube/pipe
its just copper.
copper.org
Wrong. Alloy 110 (C11000) is 99.9% pure copper (.999), and readily available in bar and sheet form. "Oxygen free copper" typically refers to oxygen free electronic (OFE) or oxygen free high conductivity (OFHC) copper, alloy 101 (C10100), which is 99.99% pure (.9999). Although OFE may be necessary in very sensitive and specialized electronic applications, there is no need or reason to pay the extra money for OFE for bullion purposes, as three 9's is standard for almost all bullion metals. Fabricated C11000 copper is plenty expensive already.
quote:
...oxygen free copper which is the best copper on earth...
...The company I work for buys over a 10 million a year in copper...
...the bars are not .999 fine, they are .990 fine
only oxygen free copper is .999 fine...
Your user name coupled with these quotes and your inaccurate data almost make it sound like you are here to promote OFE copper and bash everything else. I hope that's not the case, as I and others would love to learn more about OFE and it's applications, but spreading false claims about the legitimacy of other copper products is not a good way to introduce yourself to this very diligent group of copper enthusiasts |
Nate
The Copper Cave
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AGgressive Metal
Administrator
USA
1937 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2010 : 17:25:22
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| Melted bars of pennies? Wut? |
And he that hath lyberte ought to kepe hit wel / For nothyng is better than lyberte / For lyberte shold not be wel sold for alle the gold and syluer of all the world.
-Caxton's edition of Aesop's Fables, 1484 |
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jadedragon
Administrator
Canada
3788 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2010 : 17:35:55
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I've never heard of or seen anyone talking about bars of melted pennies before except in jest. All copper bars I've seen are .999 fine.
And in case someone thought there was no market - You must be logged in to see this link. Started at SPOT |
“The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” – George Bernard Shaw.
Why Copper Bullion ~~~ Interview with Silver Bullion Producer Market Harmony
Passive Income blog |
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Market Harmony
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1274 Posts |
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Cupronickel
Penny Pincher Member
USA
110 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2010 : 15:07:30
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| I'm quite hard-nosed with regard to relative value of these fabricated copper items being sold today. Yet I've bought a few. Why? I think copper is beautiful and the copper ingots that MH and others make have artistic value, IMO. I don't really believe that Cu will reach $10/lb, although it might. I do believe that these products do have some value above and beyond their metal content. |
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What about copper bars?
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