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Common Cents
Penny Sorter Member
82 Posts |
 Posted - 01/01/2010 : 14:07:11
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Hi Realcenters!
I've been lurking for a while, but I've been wanting to pose this question to the forum, so I decided to come out of the shadows.
So here's the thing. We've all seen the ads on TV for the clad replicas of the gold buffalo coins being offered for $19.99. My question is, how is this legal? These are being minted privately and there's no connection to the US mint. Yet the coins they offer still bear the $50 denomination. There was a highly publicized case recently where the Norfed operation was shut down by the government. Grover Norquist was selling one ounce silver coins with a $20 face value on the coin. Supposedly the government's objection was that he denominated his coins in dollars. So why are the TV ads OK in the eyes of the government, but the Norfed dollars were not? To me it's the same thing. A private minting that included dollar denominations in both cases.
Can anyone shed any light as to why Norquist was shut down, but these other operations are allowed to continue?
Thanks for any insights.
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Neckro
1000+ Penny Miser Member
Saudi Arabia
2080 Posts |
Posted - 01/01/2010 : 14:14:32
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| They're alright because they hold no face value, and don't contain the marks of the real Gold buffalo |
Trolling is an art. |
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theo
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
588 Posts |
Posted - 01/01/2010 : 14:21:10
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My guess is that these coins have "replica" or "reproduction" printed somewhere on them. That would eliminate any claim that the coins are legal currency. At least the commercial states that the coins are reproductions, which might also be enough to satisfy the courts.
I think for a Government legal action to be successful, it would have to be proven that a "reasonable person" could mistake this coin for legal tender. I doubt they could make this case. |
Edited by - theo on 01/01/2010 14:23:19 |
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PennySaved
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1720 Posts |
Posted - 01/01/2010 : 14:28:15
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I had actually picked up 2001 American buffalo set from a private mint that was an exact replica of the 2001 U.S Mint coin; it clearly had COPY marked on the front of the coin; those probably have copy also.
The sad thing is they say GOLD CLAD in those TV ads; how many people know what GOLD Clad means; a lot of people are being taken |
SELLING COPPER PENNIES 1.4X FACE SHIPPED......“I sincerely believe that banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies, and that the principles of spending money to be paid by posterity, under the name of funding, is but swindling futurity on a large scale” Thomas Jefferson |
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theo
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
588 Posts |
Posted - 01/01/2010 : 15:05:13
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quote:
Originally posted by PennySaved
I had actually picked up 2001 American buffalo set from a private mint that was an exact replica of the 2001 U.S Mint coin; it clearly had COPY marked on the front of the coin; those probably have copy also.
The sad thing is they say GOLD CLAD in those TV ads; how many people know what GOLD Clad means; a lot of people are being taken
I agree. I especially don't like the part where they say, "With gold prices on the rise, we can only guarantee this price for a limited time!" This gives the impression that the coins have significant gold value when they don't. This is a good example of something that is legal but not ethical. |
Edited by - theo on 01/01/2010 15:10:42 |
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snappy
Penny Collector Member
USA
301 Posts |
Posted - 01/01/2010 : 15:11:01
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| according to the adds they have .31mg gold humm that would take over 9000 of them to make an oz of gold. and at $20 each that is over $180,000 for an oz of gold. (if you could remove it) |
Selling Ryedale sorted USA cents
1.5 each + shipping over 500fv 1.5 each +1/2 shipping
If you pick up 1.35 each
located MT/ND boarder.
after Ryedale sorting they are hand sorted to remove canadian then rechecked with Ryedale to insure all copper and count out $50 FV then placed in cloth bags and sealed with #1 copper wire. |
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Common Cents
Penny Sorter Member
82 Posts |
Posted - 01/01/2010 : 17:46:51
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The coins don't appear to have 'copy' printed on them. And I would think that many people would mistake them for legal tender. Just because the ad refers to the coins as 'non-monetary' doesn't mean that they couldn't be passed off as legit to an unenlightened person.
I think there's a bigger issue here. I think the government singled out the Norfed operation for extra scrutiny because they were using real precious metals in their coins. And because of this, it was viewed as a threat to the legitimacy of coins from the US mint. I appreciate the responses, but I'm not yet ready to put the issue to rest. I think it's a blatant double standard. |
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fb101
Administrator
USA
2856 Posts |
Posted - 01/01/2010 : 18:35:04
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| I thought it was 31 mg. |
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Dalsuh
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
757 Posts |
Posted - 01/01/2010 : 18:39:37
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Those sneaky devils purposely use 31 mg because some might be slightly familiar with 31 grams per ounce.
Does anyone know how to research into those companies to find out who the owners are? |
PACK THE FORUM EVERY MONDAY NIGHT
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Copper Catcher
Administrator
USA
2092 Posts |
Posted - 01/01/2010 : 18:43:11
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You must be logged in to see this link.
This is what you are talking about....if you look you will see it says copy.
I agree it is sad and in my opinion it not ethical. |
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Copper Catcher
Administrator
USA
2092 Posts |
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knibloe
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1066 Posts |
Posted - 01/01/2010 : 19:11:52
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| You cannot see the word copy during the commercial. I agree, double standard. They went aftr the Liberty dollar because it was "defrauding" the public, how is this not fraud? |
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PennySaved
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1720 Posts |
Posted - 01/01/2010 : 19:19:26
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Although I don't agree with what is happening to the Liberty dollar, I think the situations are different.
The liberty dollar was real silver and being used as real money.
The copy American Eagle Gold dollar coin is meant as a collectible not to be used in monetary transactions. However, it is the true fraud since you are getting a Gold CLAD coin and a lot of people are going to think they are investing in a genuine gold coin.
Funny the government allows these unethical coins but would go after the Liberty dollar when it was the real deal. |
SELLING COPPER PENNIES 1.4X FACE SHIPPED......“I sincerely believe that banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies, and that the principles of spending money to be paid by posterity, under the name of funding, is but swindling futurity on a large scale” Thomas Jefferson |
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dakota1955
1000+ Penny Miser Member
2212 Posts |
Posted - 01/01/2010 : 19:35:29
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| those coins IMO are a racket to take people who don't know better |
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Shattered
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
523 Posts |
Posted - 01/01/2010 : 20:49:35
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| If you look closely in the commercial you can see "copy" in the Indians hair. |
"I need metal in my life, just like an eagle needs to fly."
-Joseph DeMaio : Die For Metal |
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wolvesdad
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
2164 Posts |
Posted - 01/01/2010 : 21:16:00
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ditto sad, but slightly different than Norfed.
Definitely taking advantage of the uninformed and easily fooled. |
"May your percentages ever increase!" |
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bman
Penny Collector Member
USA
425 Posts |
Posted - 01/01/2010 : 21:32:01
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you can see the word COPY in the commercial if you look carefully, it's hidden in the braid of the indians hair.
I wouldn't give 2 zinc cents for one!  |
check out my coins for sale on ecrater : http://bmanscoinsforsale.ecrater.com/ |
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theo
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
588 Posts |
Posted - 01/01/2010 : 22:43:14
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quote:
Originally posted by bman
you can see the word COPY in the commercial if you look carefully, it's hidden in the braid of the indians hair.
I wouldn't give 2 zinc cents for one!
Actually, I would since the base coin is probably made of copper. But I understand the sentiment given that they are charging $20 for a coin with a melt value of maybe 40 cents. |
Edited by - theo on 01/01/2010 22:44:05 |
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Computer Jones
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1112 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2010 : 01:57:46
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I'm pretty sure P.T. Barnum has a somewhat famous quote that would apply to this "deal".
Other than that:
Caveat emptor, maxime caveat emptor! |
There's profit if you melt things!!
8{> |
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Common Cents
Penny Sorter Member
82 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2010 : 15:24:43
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I'll look more closely for the word 'copy' in the ad.
Thanks for everyone's participation in the thread. |
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AGgressive Metal
Administrator
USA
1937 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2010 : 17:26:46
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| So apparently this scam is perfectly legal, but the Liberty Dollar, which is not a scam and is 100% upfront about what they sell, is a felony. I get it now. Wait, no I don't. |
And he that hath lyberte ought to kepe hit wel / For nothyng is better than lyberte / For lyberte shold not be wel sold for alle the gold and syluer of all the world.
-Caxton's edition of Aesop's Fables, 1484 |
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Cupronickel
Penny Pincher Member
USA
110 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2010 : 15:29:09
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| I don't think that there is an exact analogy to the Liberty Dollar. That said, I do believe that the ads for these coins skirt the very edge of the law. People should be able to do as they please with their money, but the verbiage of the TV ads take it right to the edge of fraud, IMO. The 31 milligrams of Au plating is not accidental, as someone else pointed out, taking advantage of those ignorant of the metric system (most Americans). |
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Common Cents
Penny Sorter Member
82 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2010 : 15:52:43
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You guys were absolutely correct. The word 'copy' was very well disguised, but it is visible in the Indian's braid. All I know is that these guys must be making money hand over fist, because the ad is playing constantly. And their marketing strategy is very clever. That bit about the "strict limit of 5 per customer" makes it sound like the opportunity of a lifetime to the unenlightened.
Kind of makes me want to get into the gold plating business! |
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cesario
Penny Pincher Member
129 Posts |
Posted - 01/04/2010 : 17:42:50
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NCM has had a shady reputation.
You must be logged in to see this link.
Oh, and this is rich:
quote:
National Collector's Mint's latest offering is a Liberian $20 pressed with .999 grade silver for 20 USD (US dollars), claiming its supposed original price at $39. As their ad proclaims, the $20 piece is redeemable in the "coin of the realm" [Liberia], although fails to mention that 1 USD is 64 LRD (Liberian dollars). They will sell customers up to a maximum of 5 of these pieces worth a total of $1.56 (USD) for $20 each + shipping and handling, yielding a markup of approximately 6400%.
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Mikep2020
Penny Collector Member
USA
402 Posts |
Posted - 01/04/2010 : 18:47:57
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| Would a couple of these work as a good diversion is a home break in? Throw a couple of these in the sock drawer or jewelry case or someplace were a theif would find it and not look very closely at it. So he would take off thinking he got something of real value leaving your real stash better secured. |
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Topic |
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$50 Gold Buffalo Replicas
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