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Cody8404
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
602 Posts |
 Posted - 09/05/2007 : 17:33:18
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I have had an epiphany.
I have finally realized why the Susan B. Anthony Dollar, and the Sacagawea Dollar and the Presidents’ Dollars have or will fail.
The Coins used in the United States are produced by the US Mint a branch of the US Government. The coins from cents to fifty dollar gold ounces are all produced by part of the US government.
The authority to print the paper notes we use has been surrendered by the US congress / government and given to the FED or the banks of the US.
The FED controls the printing of paper notes and the distribution of all coin and notes. The Mint has spent millions to convince people to use the dollar coins, but the banks just do not allow them out.
Yes, if you specifically ask for dollar coins the bank may have a few or they may be willing to order some, but as long as the FED controls the distribution of the coins they will not be readily accepted.
You may see a Pepsi near a Coke truck, but that isn’t by the choice of Coke.
I think this is a clear picture just who has the power. The FED has far more control over the US government than the Government has over the FED.
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pencilvanian
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
2209 Posts |
Posted - 09/05/2007 : 20:15:24
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I think you are on the right track as far as paper dollar vs coin dollar and the public's reluctance to accept coin dollars, though we must not forget the history of dollar coins of our nation's past.
Dollar coins, especially dollar coins made of gold and to a lesser degree silver, usually are found in About Uncirculated condition due to the fact that dollar coins were a hard sell for most of our nation's history. Many didn't circulate, most just spent their existance in bank vaults or in the vault of the US Mint. It wasn't the case that nobody wanted these coins, it was because of two factors:
A) Things were much cheaper a century ago and earlier. A Dollar coin would be the equivalent to a $100 dollar bill today in buying power. People didn't carry around dollar coins too much for fear of robbery and due to the weight. Imagine carrying around $20 worth of silver dollars, the weight would discourage you from doing it very often without reparing holes in your pockets quite often.
B) Paper dollars circulated more freely back then as they do today. Paper money has been issued by the government from the Civil War to today, and when the Government wasn't issuing paper money, the private banks were issuing their own currency, hence the term "banknotes". Banknotes were issued in the US as well as Great Britian and there were many banknote companies in existance before the Civil War. The reason the US Government didn't go after the banks for issung paper money was ude to the technicality that the bankers found in the Constitution. The Constitution states that the individual states may not issue paper money, but the Constitution didn't state or imply that Private Enterprises couldn't issue paper money. The banks would issue paper money which was supposed to be backed by the gold and silver in the bank's vaults. Paper circulated much more freely due to Gresham's law, given the choice of using paper dollars or dollars made of silver or gold, paper won out most of the time. Some silver and gold dollars did circulate, many bear the wear and tear of being used, though many more dollar coins just spent their existance in bank vaults, were hidden away by careful owners, etc.
While paper banknote money did circulate in our nations past, paper money was not always accepted at face value.
Before the days of the telephone or even the telegraph, it was hard to tell if the paper dollar banknote was from a bank that was still in existance or had folded months or years ago, or if it might be counterfeit. A 20%-30% discount was deducted from the face value of the banknote by other banks and merchants when the banknotes were offered for deposit or to purchase goods, or the banknote was refused outright.
In spite of this, paper banknotes still circulated more than coined dollars since it was easier to carry and hide a paper banknote on one's person than with a coined dollar.
The public's reluctance to use coined dollars sadly continues to thids day.
I should have chosen "Cut-n-Paste" as a forum name, since that is what I do, mostly. |
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Cerulean
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
993 Posts |
Posted - 09/06/2007 : 08:31:58
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This issue has nothing to do with personal or public choice. It has nothing to do with inflation, or government spending, or mining interests. It is purely a turf war between the Fed and the US guv'ment. All other concerns are insignificant.
The Fed gets to keep the seignorage from bills. The US Treasury directly receives all the seignorage from coins. The Fed thus has a strong interest to kill coins, since every coin that replaces a bill takes revenue away from Fed coffers.
RUNNING TOTAL
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3331 zincs (1982-2007) 75.5%
1053 coppers (1959-1982) 23.9%
26 wheats (1920-1958)
6 Canadian (1968-1995)
1 dime (2004)
Wanna take money away from the Fed? Spend dollar coins! |
Edited by - Cerulean on 09/06/2007 08:40:32 |
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just carl
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
601 Posts |
Posted - 09/06/2007 : 09:44:15
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All such comments are actually funny. For one thing at every bank in my area any of the baby dollar coins are available in any quantity you want. In fact at one bank all tellers ask if you want some. They can't get rid of the things. Any of them. From 1999 to present, they just don't work. Who wants to carry around anything heavy if they don't have to. Paper money weighs less than a coin and that is the primary reason no one wants them. Imagine a choice between 100 dollar coins or 100 paper bills. Even then you can get one bill that says $100. Most cash registers have no place for the baby sized dollar coins. Same with slots in most vending machines, coin chagers that train conductors carry, etc. There is just no place for those things. That is also why the half dollar coin is fading from existance. People are just to smart to carry excessive weight.
Then there is the size factor. Oh so many people have spent them for a quarter and/or received them as a quarter. Very annoying.
Carl |
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Cerulean
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
993 Posts |
Posted - 10/01/2007 : 14:06:29
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I think people are more anti-cash than they are anti-coin. Most of the people my age (25-ish) in my Wednesday night game group hardly have paper money. They've gone almost completely to credit cards. We had a heck of a time trying the split the bill for a pizza, since I was the only one on the room with cash.
RUNNING TOTAL
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3331 zincs (1982-2007) 75.5%
1053 coppers (1959-1982) 23.9%
26 wheats (1920-1958)
6 Canadian (1968-1995)
1 dime (2004)
Wanna take money away from the Fed? Spend dollar coins! |
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just carl
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
601 Posts |
Posted - 10/02/2007 : 12:15:25
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Actually Cerulean is on the right track. Notice the latest Visa commercials where everything is running smoothly until someone attempts to use cash. It may sound dumb to many but this is the way of the future. No more cash. Also, with intercontinental trades becoming so common, the many types of different currencies and coins just don't work. Way to many fluxuations in interchanging. Europe is attempting to fix that for now with one type of monitary system but in the near future, that too will become outdated. In the future you will be able to go to any country on Earth and with a plastic card be able to do any transactions since a computer will figure out exactly what you should pay. Cash of any kind will just not be practical as almost it is becoming now. I know at almost everywhere I go credit and debit cards are used way more than cash. Lately I was supprized that every grocery store, gas station, department stores, hardward stores are preferring plastic. I really like my son just waving a card at a gas pump and driving off. We have toll roads that are now going completely electronic and if you don't comply with that system, you pay over double if cash is used and you must wait in lines to do it. Eventually there will only one type of monitary system everywhere.
I think in the not to long distant future some kid will be saying "Hey Gramps, what was that stuff you people used to use in the old days called cash?"
Carl |
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beercritic
Penny Pincher Member
USA
112 Posts |
Posted - 10/04/2007 : 19:22:24
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Dollar coin just refuses to circulate till the get rid of the pesky paper dollar. It's that simple. Folks just won't want to carry the coins.
Course I get them (from the bank) and spend them (yard sales and restaurants) and both the bank and the folks receiving the coins seem happy enough. Grab a roll and go about your business, carrying 6 or 8 doesn't weigh a lot. Spend them on small transactions. Much easier than constantly whipping out the wallet.
JMHO YMMV
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Cerulean
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
993 Posts |
Posted - 10/10/2007 : 08:44:14
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People talk about the weight and encumbrance of coins like it was some kind of big deal. Yet we are silent about the weight and encumbrance of wallets, purses, cell phones, electronics, and car keys.
Do coins damage pockets? Not as much as car keys do!
RUNNING TOTAL
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3501 zincs (1982-2007) 75.4%
1106 coppers (1959-1982) 23.8%
31 wheats (1920-1958)
7 Canadian (1968-1995)
1 dime (2004)
Wanna take money away from the Fed? Spend dollar coins! |
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Metalophile
Penny Collector Member
USA
320 Posts |
Posted - 10/10/2007 : 22:20:54
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I don't think they're all that heavy. I used to carry a cloth pouch with a draw string for my coins. Lately I've started using a small, tough zip-lock bag. Now I can see what coins I have without pouring them out of the bag.
I cashed a $100 check the other day and got 4 rolls of dollars - carried them all in one hand out the door. And if someone tries to rob me, one roll in each fist makes a good weapon!
Metalophile |
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just carl
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
601 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2007 : 15:39:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Cerulean
People talk about the weight and encumbrance of coins like it was some kind of big deal. Yet we are silent about the weight and encumbrance of wallets, purses, cell phones, electronics, and car keys.
Do coins damage pockets? Not as much as car keys do!
Wanna take money away from the Fed? Spend dollar coins!
Obviously you haven't been checking out the newest cars. Some are and soon will be via either finger prints or a code such as with combination locks. A few buildings I have worked in also have abandoned key locks in favor of combination locks. And most cars now only have one key for all locks. Note many GM products only have one door for a key out of the 4 possibles. Not much damage to a pocket with so few keys required lately. I can enter my car, start my car, open the trunk and never use a key, only that funny little black thing.
Cell phones are now being advertised that are slim enough to fit in a shirt pocket. Less people carry photos since they can download a photo from a place like photobucket any time they want since you can now utilize the internet via a cell phone. Some watches have computers for math problems so why carry a calculator.
And to purses. If your married, dating, etc. check out the size of the purses if any at all. Getting really small since so much is just not required and if it is, that's your job to supply.
No keys, no cash, no problems.
Carl |
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fiatboy
Administrator
912 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2007 : 18:42:50
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I like carrying around a roll of the new dollars. Yes, they're ugly, but they limit how much I spend. If I carried cash, I'd end up carrying a lot more money, and therefore wasting it on junk I don't need. For younger people like me who have been reared in a debt-based consumer culture---and that's all we've ever known, these little coins help us save. I ought to have more discipline, but sometimes I don't.
They do get a little bulky sometimes, but that just means I should carry less and save more. My girlfriend just throws a roll or two in her purse.
I have never had anyone refuse them, and some people get excited when they see them.
And as regards keys, my 2007 Toyota uses a traditional key. No power locks. No power windows. No key fob clicker or anything like that. Simple---the way I like it. |
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n/a
deleted
192 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2007 : 23:58:28
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So here we are, in two camps;
1. optimistic.
the future will be a glory of technology that always works, people on the moon, peace and love and genetically modified food facsimilies.
2. pessimistic.
the future will be full of peak oil, technology that crashes, and people who can't do anything for themselves.
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Don't believe everything you think. |
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just carl
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
601 Posts |
Posted - 10/14/2007 : 17:28:51
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Me2: Statement No.2 Alreay happening. I was in a Walmart store not long ago. While checking out the computers went down. Poof. End of everything. No one could check out. People were told to either wait or just go home. I looked at the lady behind me with Milk, Orange Juice, etc in her cart. Now what?
Went to a bank, waited in line, Poof. Computers down. Go home.
Carl |
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fiatboy
Administrator
912 Posts |
Posted - 10/15/2007 : 14:44:42
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I don't consider myself a "doom and gloomer" but I guess I fall into the pessimistic camp. I don't believe necessarily that things are getting worse, but rather, that they never were that great to begin with. In other words, the modern idea of "progress" seems ridiculous to me. I'd rather ride a horse and use silver coins than drive a car and use cash or credit cards (even though I like cars and cash). Although I have nothing to base this on, I have a gut feeling that our current technological developments are an unsustainable aberration. Truth be told, I probably hold a bleaker view of the future than almost everyone, but I don't really worry about it.
I guess it's the little things that keep my happy. For example, I went to a little bakery a few weeks ago and got back in change a 1963 Canadian dime. My girlfriend and I shared freshly made croissants those the last few days of summer. Silver in my pocket. A peaceful moment. Put a smile on my face, despite my TEOTWAWKI mindset.
And Cody, I think you're spot on about the Fed. The U.S. government is no doubt beholden to the Fed. Has been since Jekyll Island. fwiw, I'd wager that the U.S. Mint will eventually outlast the Fed. Interesting times we're in. |
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n/a
deleted
38 Posts |
Posted - 11/17/2007 : 20:24:55
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| The reason I do not use the coin is because it is ugly (they should stick with the side profiles), the metal composition (stick to copper clad or put silver back in it), they are too small ( I like the weight of a Morgan dollar) that sums up why I do not like the dollar coins ( the Eisenhower's were the ok, but after that, forget it) |
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n/a
deleted
11 Posts |
Posted - 11/26/2007 : 11:12:34
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| The dollar coins will never circulate like the government wants them to because they are too heavy for people to carry around all day. A $20 dollar bill or 20 #1 dollar bills are alot lighter than 20 dollar coins. Get rid of the dollar and people will be forced to use the coins. |
Edited by - n/a on 11/26/2007 11:15:15 |
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fiatboy
Administrator
912 Posts |
Posted - 11/27/2007 : 01:18:55
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I had a dream that I should set aside an unopened roll of presidential dollar coins. So I did. Of course, I also had a dream that I found a pot of gold at the end of a rainbow.
Seriously, though, I can't quite put my finger on it, but I think there must be a reason why the Mint keeps pushing the dollar coins, despite their assured failure. And it's more than just greed. Perhaps that bogeyman of a currency, the Amero, has something to do with it. Or not.
Oh well, I still use 'em. They've really helped me cut back on my spending, since I don't leave the house with more than a roll. |
"Bart, it's not about how many stocks you have, it's about how much copper wire you can get out of the building." --- Homer Simpson |
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Cody8404
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
602 Posts |
Posted - 11/29/2007 : 18:52:40
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| This reminds me of the reason I tell my bankers when I get a box of cents. I tell them they are pretty well robber proof. I would like to see a thief trying to run away from my house carrying more than one box of cents. They are just too much. |
Awake, O kings of the earth! Come ye, O, come ye, with your gold and your silver, to the help of my people, to the house of the daughters of Zion, to the help of the people of the God of this Land even Jesus Christ. |
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Art Tatum
Penny Collector Member
USA
400 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2008 : 23:37:57
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quote:
Originally posted by beercritic
Dollar coin just refuses to circulate till the get rid of the pesky paper dollar. It's that simple. Folks just won't want to carry the coins.
Course I get them (from the bank) and spend them (yard sales and restaurants) and both the bank and the folks receiving the coins seem happy enough. Grab a roll and go about your business, carrying 6 or 8 doesn't weigh a lot. Spend them on small transactions. Much easier than constantly whipping out the wallet.
JMHO YMMV
it is fun to hand them out isn't it? :)
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my machine is running! |
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just carl
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
601 Posts |
Posted - 02/18/2008 : 07:55:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Cody8404
This reminds me of the reason I tell my bankers when I get a box of cents. I tell them they are pretty well robber proof. I would like to see a thief trying to run away from my house carrying more than one box of cents. They are just too much.
I hope your kidding. Example: A neighbor went on vacation. While gone a moving van pulled up and began unloading everything in thier house. A few nosey neighbors asked the movers what was going on. They said the people that lived there liked it so much where they were, they decided to move there. Naturally when the people came home from thier vacation, they found an empty house. Oh, they had a safe bolted to the wall and an security alarm system. The so called movers took those also.
And you think a few rolls of coins are to heavy? |
Carl |
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It's not about the coins
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