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billo
Penny Collector Member
293 Posts |
Posted - 11/25/2009 : 00:09:32
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| Sad but true, the government owns not only your money but also you yourself. Slick was right to make the property comparison. Take a look around. |
That's not a dollar, mate...THIS is a dollar.
http://www.sendcongressapinkslip.com/ |
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HoardCopperByTheTon
Administrator
USA
6807 Posts |
Posted - 11/25/2009 : 00:55:26
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*Doesn't own a 5 foot cube* .. yet. They don't need to bother with all that labor and effort to confiscate our stuff. So much easier to just inflate the money supply and just tax the heck out of any transactions that really just maintain value.. but call them profit and take the huge government cut. That dang government is getting almost as greedy as eBay.  |
If your percentages are low.. just sort more. If your percentages are high.. just sort more.
Now selling Copper pennies. 1.6x plus shipping. Limited amounts available. |
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HoardCopperByTheTon
Administrator
USA
6807 Posts |
Posted - 11/25/2009 : 00:56:38
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| Does the Canadian government own my copper canadian pennies? When are they going to invade to take them back, eh? |
If your percentages are low.. just sort more. If your percentages are high.. just sort more.
Now selling Copper pennies. 1.6x plus shipping. Limited amounts available. |
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Dalsuh
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
757 Posts |
Posted - 11/25/2009 : 01:26:55
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| Does anyone know the statistics on how many people actually turned in their gold when it was confiscated. |
PACK THE FORUM EVERY MONDAY NIGHT
Eastern 9 PM
Central 8 PM ( Forum Time )
Mountain 7 PM
Pacific 6 PM ( HoardCopperByTheTon Time)
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Nickelless
Administrator
USA
5580 Posts |
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2old
Penny Pincher Member
188 Posts |
Posted - 11/25/2009 : 08:53:07
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| I think that you will find that the U.S. Government owns all coins until the point they are released to the public or "monetized". At that point they belong to the legal bearer. At least that was the argument used on the 1933 gold coins. Records reflect the release or "monetization" of those coins, so they were no longer the property of the U.S. Government. |
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PreservingThePast
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1572 Posts |
 Posted - 11/25/2009 : 09:02:39
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quote:
Originally posted by daviscfad
I guess the 5th amendment would make it where they could not just take it. from wikipedia
" No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation"
Oh, the government can and does take property when they need it under eminent domain (sp?). You either go along with the price they offer you and get on with your life, or, attempt to fight/dispute the price to get a higher amount you feel you are entitled to and you will be in the legal system for years. Which is easier in the long run. The government knows this.
We lost our business in the early 1990s due to this process. We were paid for it, but a fair price according to whom??? Sometimes things work out for the best though and after months of being without work, my husband found a job working for someone else and he really loves his work now. Not that we didn't enjoy almost every minute when we had our own business. Sometimes God works in mysterious ways and things turn out better for all involved, but at the time it feels like a part of your life is being ripped from your heart. I mourned the loss of our business for years. I still feel wistful when I am driven past the beautiful retention pond that is in place of our former business.
So, who knows what is possible regarding coins? I searched for several hours yesterday afternoon and I know I am not very expert at the internet search process and am slowed and hampered with this pesky dial-up and contrary contraption called a computer, but I could not locate anything showing a law about who legally owns the coins. I could find a lot of articles that stated the government changed the law for the melting, etc. There were hints that the government, not us, owns the coins, but nothing was stated in fact to back up this claim. And, as everyone knows, just because you see it on the internet (or in today's world hear it on TV or read it in media print) does not mean it is correct information. Too many times now, people are not allowing the facts to get in the way of a good sensational article/story/news item.
Let us hope that the coins we have searched for or purchased for our collections really are ours. I would hate to think that my hundreds, maybe thousands now, of hours spent collecting the coins for my kids birth year coin projects wouldn't really belong to them in the long run. 
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Kurr
1000+ Penny Miser Member
2906 Posts |
Posted - 11/25/2009 : 09:15:08
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quote:
Originally posted by daviscfad
I guess the 5th amendment would make it where they could not just take it. from wikipedia
" No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation"
"But, indeed, no private person has a right to complain, by suit in Court, on the ground of a breach of the Constitution. The Constitution, it is true, is a compact, but he is not a party to it. The States are the parties to it. And they may complain. ."
- - -Padelford, Fay & Co. vs. Mayor and Alderman, City of Savannah, 14 Ga. 438, 520 (1854) Supreme Court of Georgia
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The silver [is] mine, and the gold [is] mine, saith the LORD of hosts. Hag 2:8 [/b]
He created it. He controls it. He gave it to us for His use. Why did we turn from sound scriptural currency that PROTECTS us?
KJV Bible w/ Strong's Concordance: http://www.blueletterbible.org/
The book of The Hundreds: http://www.land.netonecom.net/tlp/ref/boh/bookOfTheHundreds_v4.1.pdf
The Two Republics: http://www.whitehorsemedia.com/docs/THE_TWO_REPUBLICS.pdf
Good reading: http://ecclesia.org/truth/government.html
A number of people are educated beyond, sometimes way beyond, their intelligence. - Tenbears
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Tourney64
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1035 Posts |
Posted - 11/25/2009 : 12:20:56
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In 1933 the government didn't take the gold, it made it illegal to own, which the required everyone to turn in their gold for paper currency. Your home could work the same way. The government can assess a tax on your house, which is 2
times the value and if you don't pay then it's theirs. They could say we are no longer minting copper pennies and it will be illegal to own them if they are newer than 1908. The US is less than 4 years away from total monetary collapse, and if health care, immigration amnesty, and cap and tax happen then it will be even sooner. When it happens all the rules will change. Hold on to what you have and don't let the government know about it. |
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coppernickel
Penny Pincher Member
USA
131 Posts |
Posted - 11/25/2009 : 12:37:38
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That is the key. "Hold on to what you have and don't let the government know about it."
Most times it is the movement that gets information known. When you buy, sell or transport is when things get found out. This is why most laws are aimed at transport, selling or buying. It is more of a crime to sell or transport drugs than to just possess them. |
Silver Monometalism is the most permanent and stable form of money the world has seen. Natural law and history prove silver value is best multiplied by gold and best divided by copper. It is only in this counterfeit currency time when the natural law appears suspended. |
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Ryedale
Administrator
USA
523 Posts |
Posted - 11/25/2009 : 16:44:50
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WOW
excellent posts, thanks to all and keep them coming. If I had asked the same question on the "gold" site, it would have been closed by now. darn gold snobs anyway. They need to warm up to the Ghetto Gold. |
Ryedale
GET YOUR DRI-SLIDE FROM IRONBRAID
http://www.ironbraid.com/driside.html
Used with permission from Ironbraid.
Quote
"The real art of conversation is not only to say the right thing at the right place, but to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the most tempting moment."
— Dorothy Neville-Rolfe |
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slickeast
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
2533 Posts |
Posted - 11/25/2009 : 16:52:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Ryedale
WOW
excellent posts, thanks to all and keep them coming. If I had asked the same question on the "gold" site, it would have been closed by now. darn gold snobs anyway. They need to warm up to the Ghetto Gold.
Ghetto Gold, that is funny. I try to avoid those "other" forums. They have their noses so far up in the air, that if it rained, they would drown.
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You don't have to be the BEST you just have to be.......SLICK
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PennySaved
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1720 Posts |
Posted - 11/25/2009 : 17:04:44
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| Do you think that the government would offer 2 to 3 times face value if they forced people to turn in their pennies? |
SELLING COPPER PENNIES 1.4X FACE SHIPPED......“I sincerely believe that banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies, and that the principles of spending money to be paid by posterity, under the name of funding, is but swindling futurity on a large scale” Thomas Jefferson |
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Kurr
1000+ Penny Miser Member
2906 Posts |
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slickeast
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
2533 Posts |
Posted - 11/25/2009 : 17:10:29
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quote:
Originally posted by PennySaved
Do you think that the government would offer 2 to 3 times face value if they forced people to turn in their pennies?
LOL, if they want to be nice, they might give you some FRN's for your pennies |
You don't have to be the BEST you just have to be.......SLICK
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billo
Penny Collector Member
293 Posts |
Posted - 11/25/2009 : 23:37:05
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| Right on, Preserving and Kurr. Face it, folks. Read Fred Douglass. Trusted slaves sometimes worked and lived independently and gave their owner most of the salary, keeping a portion themselves as allowed/agreed. How much different is your situation? |
That's not a dollar, mate...THIS is a dollar.
http://www.sendcongressapinkslip.com/ |
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billo
Penny Collector Member
293 Posts |
Posted - 11/25/2009 : 23:43:44
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quote:
You must be logged in to see this link.
"Despite the dire threat of ten years in prison there was only one prosecution under the order, and in that case the order was ruled invalid by federal judge John M. Woolsey, on the technical grounds that the order was signed by the President, not the Secretary of the Treasury as required."
"In actuality, despite the threat of criminal prosecution, no safe deposit boxes were forcibly searched under the order and the few prosecutions that occurred in the 1930s for gold hoarding were executed under different statutes."
If gold was outlawed again today, you can bet it would play out different along these points. |
That's not a dollar, mate...THIS is a dollar.
http://www.sendcongressapinkslip.com/ |
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Nickelless
Administrator
USA
5580 Posts |
Posted - 11/25/2009 : 23:49:20
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quote:
Originally posted by billo
quote:
You must be logged in to see this link.
"Despite the dire threat of ten years in prison there was only one prosecution under the order, and in that case the order was ruled invalid by federal judge John M. Woolsey, on the technical grounds that the order was signed by the President, not the Secretary of the Treasury as required."
"In actuality, despite the threat of criminal prosecution, no safe deposit boxes were forcibly searched under the order and the few prosecutions that occurred in the 1930s for gold hoarding were executed under different statutes."
If gold was outlawed again today, you can bet it would play out different along these points.
I'm curious to know what the differences are that you'd imagine, but as has been mentioned before in this section, it makes no sense at this point for the government to call in gold while they're still selling it to private individuals through the Mint and all of their flashy ads. |
Visit my new preparedness site: Preparedness.cc/SurvivalPrep.net
--Latest article: Stocking up on spices to keep food preps lively
---------------
Be prepared...and prepared to help: http://www.survivalblog.com/charity.html
Are you ready spiritually for hard times? http://www.jesusfreak.com/rapture.asp |
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jonflyfish
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
693 Posts |
Posted - 11/26/2009 : 00:50:36
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I find it amazing that some people would pay $1200+ for a 2009 $50 FV gold coin, knowing that is was not theirs. How about those $1 silver eagles?
Should we assume that the US mint is simply "leasing" it's coins out to the dealers, allowing them to transfer the "lease" to someone else on the retail level?
Do people really believe that coins "sold" by the mint was just a sham to keep the buyer's FRN's AND maintain ownership of the coins? I know possession is 9/10 of the law but perhaps this gives the gov't reasonable cause to kick down your doors on any night they choose in a surprise asset recovery operation. LOL
Safe to say that coins in your possession are your "property". |
The first panacea for a mismanaged nation is inflation of the currency; second is war. Both bring a temporary (and false) prosperity; both bring a permanent ruin. But both are the refuge of political and economic opportunities. |
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Tourney64
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1035 Posts |
Posted - 11/26/2009 : 06:47:51
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| The part that was scary is the one prosecution was when someone went to get their gold, which they weren't supposed to own out of a safe deposit box. Many banks failed, so people lost their safe deposit boxes. If you have illegal coin under new rules do you try to get your illegal coin, or just lose it to avoid jail time. Either way you are SOL. Safe deposit boxes in financial crisis situations are just not that safe. Is it safe to keep the valuables at home, where you could get robbed? Best alternative appears to be a hidden safe, securely fastened to the foundation. Also a good security system, like a big mean dog and a loaded gun. |
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Does the government own our pennies?
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