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89gt-stanger
Penny Sorter Member
USA
59 Posts |
 Posted - 09/17/2009 : 18:21:38
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For some reason, Ive lost almost all faith in ZN/CU sorting. I ordered $175 from my bank earlier this week, and really, I just dont see the benefit anymore.
What good is... about $500 of CU going to do for me WTSHTF?
My issues with it;
1. They are not liquid.
2. Who the hell would by them except for Numi's?
3. If they are melting them, how are they going to melt them at the right price so that I will come out even barely upside?
4. Would people even accept them in trade?
Thanks.
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Neckro
1000+ Penny Miser Member
Saudi Arabia
2080 Posts |
Posted - 09/17/2009 : 18:36:36
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| Those are the same reason I stopped doing Copper. |
Trolling is an art. |
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Gr33nday43
New Member
Uzbekistan
10 Posts |
Posted - 09/17/2009 : 18:51:38
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I "lol" at the SHTF scenario...however I do think we have have modest economic growth and inflation in the mid future, which is why I hold copper. Copper will always be needed when economies are growing.
1. I am not as high volume as most, so the liquidity issue is not as big of a deal.
2. The same people that buy copper scrap. Also, the numi potential adds another market.
3. Do people mention this about copper scrap? Copper can be melted by big guys (and even some small operations such as market harmomy) cheaply enough for them to make a profit.
4. Trading? What need for trading? Trade them in for cash and do all the bartering you want...you'll get plenty of takers. |
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Country
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
3121 Posts |
 Posted - 09/17/2009 : 18:52:33
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If you enjoy searching the copper, continue doing it. However, I would suggest some diversifying of your fiat into silver or other PMs. Also, you could use the profits you make with selling coppers to buy other PMs.
barrytrot wants your copper right now (see the Trade Section of RealCent). If you've got enough coppers, trade them for some GOLD.
Remember that WTSHTF preparation is more than just having PMs. If you are young and healthy that will be one of the most valuable assets you can ever have WTSHTF. |
---> Come to the new and improved realcent: http://realcent.org
The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at-any-price, peace-at-any-price, safety-first instead of duty-first, the love of soft living, and the get-rich-quick theory of life.
Theodore Roosevelt
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Edited by - Country on 09/17/2009 19:04:20 |
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slickeast
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
2533 Posts |
Posted - 09/17/2009 : 19:04:38
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People probably thought the some thing in 1965 about the older (pre 65 ) silver coins...."they are not worth keeping", so they threw them back into circulation. Well now they are worth 12.5X face.
Don't put all your eggs in one basket. You should diversify. Silver ,Gold, other PM's. |
You don't have to be the BEST you just have to be.......SLICK
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Neckro
1000+ Penny Miser Member
Saudi Arabia
2080 Posts |
Posted - 09/17/2009 : 19:07:04
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| Silver has always been a PM, Copper has not. |
Trolling is an art. |
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Ardent Listener
Administrator
USA
4841 Posts |
Posted - 09/17/2009 : 19:07:42
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I'm not the best member to answer your request for help since I'm much more into nickels than sorting copper pennies, but here goes my two cents worth. First of all, the copper penny market is only starting to develope. Even though APMEX sells them, people like us can still go down to their local bank and buy them pre-sorted at face value. As long as they can still be obtained for face value in numbers that make them worthy of sorting out the copper ones then the real value over their face value for of a bag of sorted copper cents is in the fact that someone took the time and effort to do the sorting.
You stated that they are not liquid. True, yet members buy and sell to each other all the time on this site. When the time comes that they are liquid at your local level then the supply of copper cents in circulation will have all but dried up. Sorters are thinking and acting well ahead of the general public.
In my youth I sorted out and saved 90% silver coins out of circulation. My brothers did too but soon gave up and either spent theirs or sold them to me. Though it's hard to believe now, it got discouraging back then to hold on to silver coins that no one really wanted. I didn't have a lot of extra money since few kids do. But something told me inside that they really did have a value beyond their face value and someday people would realize it. They did.
If the SHTF what good would $500.00 of copper cents do for you? That's subject to debate but I can assure you they will do a heck of a lot more then $500 of paper money will do in a hyperinflation situation. But then so will $500 of your zinc rejects. If you find we are in a delfationary situation with perhaps the banks closed then you won't regret having had saved them too.
To each his or her own. We all have to decide if sorting is worth it or not. But even though I'm a nickel guy I have my stash of hand sorted copper cents and I'm glad I do.
I always look at coin sorting as a labor of love.
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Realcent.forumco.com disclosure. Please read.
All posts either by the members, moderators, and the administration of http://realcent.forumco.com are for your edification and amusement only. It is not the intent of realcent.forumco.com or its host to provide investment, medical, matrimonial, legal, security or tax advice and nothing posted here should be considered to be so. All rights reserved.
Think positive. |
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Ardent Listener
Administrator
USA
4841 Posts |
Posted - 09/17/2009 : 19:09:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Neckro
Silver has always been a PM, Copper has not.
True, as we define precious metals. But copper has always been money as long or maybe longer than gold or silver. |
Realcent.forumco.com disclosure. Please read.
All posts either by the members, moderators, and the administration of http://realcent.forumco.com are for your edification and amusement only. It is not the intent of realcent.forumco.com or its host to provide investment, medical, matrimonial, legal, security or tax advice and nothing posted here should be considered to be so. All rights reserved.
Think positive. |
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fb101
Administrator
USA
2856 Posts |
Posted - 09/17/2009 : 19:22:32
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I cut back on my copper hoarding, but copper is heading back to the $3.00 range for now, and the dollar is destined to drop much further. I consider that inevitable. Think about what they'll be worth with copper at $8 or $9 a pound.
We're ahead of the curve, but you have to have a long range view. One thing I take as a guarantee is that you'll never lose a cent on all you save. |
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Market Harmony
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1274 Posts |
Posted - 09/17/2009 : 19:23:28
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Copper cents are quite liquid. Just look at eBay and the market area here for just the beginning of the liquid market. Maybe it takes some work to ship them, but they are as liquid as a rack of suits.
People with some degree of knowledge regarding commodities and that can do a little math will buy them. The key is awareness. If there is awareness of the copper cent as bullion, then the people will come.
95% 5% zinc is an alloy more commonly called Brass. With the known properties of a copper cent, more specific variations of the brass alloys can be made using the copper cent (in the future, maybe). So, if the melt ban is lifted, there will be large industrial buyers willing to take in the cents for their metal content. The uses of brass stretch across a broad spectrum of products. Producers will pay the lowest possible prices for any raw material, whether they are making steel sheets or mattresses.
Trade offers have to first be made and then agreed upon. You'd be surprised what you might get for what you have.
Your concerns are legitimate, and your pessimism is warranted, but the opportunity to sort is today... before they are all gone from circulation. |
goto the new and improved realcent: http://realcent.org |
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dakota1955
1000+ Penny Miser Member
2212 Posts |
Posted - 09/17/2009 : 21:14:06
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| I think at times we all wonder if we should still be looking for copper cents. I been there myself. I took some time off rested and then when back to saving copper. |
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jonflyfish
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
693 Posts |
Posted - 09/17/2009 : 21:17:13
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quote:
Originally posted by 89gt-stanger
For some reason, Ive lost almost all faith in ZN/CU sorting. I ordered $175 from my bank earlier this week, and really, I just dont see the benefit anymore.
What good is... about $500 of CU going to do for me WTSHTF?
My issues with it;
1. They are not liquid.
2. Who the hell would by them except for Numi's?
3. If they are melting them, how are they going to melt them at the right price so that I will come out even barely upside?
4. Would people even accept them in trade?
Thanks.
To be brief and to the point. I believe we are neighbors and am always willing to help. So, to address your points-
1. I'll make it liquid for you.
2. Me.
3. No need to melt them. The source and purity are well known.
4. Yes. Your metal chips for my paper.
Please let me know if I can help.
Cheers |
The first panacea for a mismanaged nation is inflation of the currency; second is war. Both bring a temporary (and false) prosperity; both bring a permanent ruin. But both are the refuge of political and economic opportunities. |
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wagsthadog
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
565 Posts |
Posted - 09/17/2009 : 23:09:07
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Hi there-
It's more therapeutic for me than anything. I'll be honest, I really sort just for the wheats, but the copper DOES have value, and I look at it two ways-
1) If I'm going to watch TV, I'm going to sort while doing it and make money in the process.
2) No offense to other members, I can't let you guys make ALL the money.. ; D
I have never had much luck selling coppers outright, but they are a great "sweetener" for trade deals. Get out there. Interact with the market. Copper is starting to heat up.
JMO
wags |
Only when they CAN'T have it, ......THEN they'll want it.
I love Cents. If you get an UNC box, you win. If you get a regular circ. box, you win. If you get a zinc box, you don't lose....so you still win. |
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biglouddrunk
Penny Pincher Member
138 Posts |
Posted - 09/17/2009 : 23:44:05
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| I don't hoard for WTSHTF. I am of the opinion that in the next 10 years the world is going to have to rebuild there entire electric grid. This will cause a decade for copper like gold has seen over the last 10 years. I'm thinking well see 10 dollar per pound by 2015 maybe earlier. |
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jadedragon
Administrator
Canada
3788 Posts |
Posted - 09/18/2009 : 00:30:10
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Copper pennies sell at You must be logged in to see this link. ebay, realcent, and APMEX. That is a pretty good market for something worth up to 2X face. When they are worth 10X face (pennies for a dime) then all the coin dealers will be on them. Of course then you will not be able to find them in circulation.
I can tell you there is a BIG market for pure Ni. The Royal Canadian Mint pulls nickels, dimes and quarters made from pure Ni and sells them to industrial users by the drum. |
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man. George Bernard Shaw.
Why Copper Bullion ~~~ Interview with Silver Bullion Producer Market Harmony
Passive Income blog |
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HoardCopperByTheTon
Administrator
USA
6807 Posts |
Posted - 09/18/2009 : 01:48:02
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1. They are very liquid. I have converted tons of them into the noble metals.
2. What's wrong with Numis?.. they often have ready cash. They are also not the only market.
3. No reason to melt.. and share your potential upside, plus possibly require assaying. You have a government issued round of known weight and fineness.. why would you want to change that?
4. Folks trade for them every day.. maybe just not at the ratios you might prefer. Barrytrot is offering to trade gold for them in the trade section right now.
If they were worth too much.. everybody and their brother would be sorting, and the supply of copper, or the willingness of the banks to provide you pennies to sort, would be adversely effected.
If the meltban were lifted.. the commercial interests would clean out the supply in a hurry. Even at todays low prices, the margins are substantial enough for a commercial operation.
Maybe you are just a little burned out and need a break. Go ahead and take a break. The beauty of this hobby is you can sort as slow, and maybe almost as fast as you want to.
Now is the time to sort and hoard. Tomorrow is the time to sell.  |
If your percentages are low.. just sort more. If your percentages are high.. just sort more.
Now selling Copper pennies. 1.6x plus shipping. Limited amounts available. |
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barrytrot
Administrator
USA
721 Posts |
Posted - 09/18/2009 : 07:19:50
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quote:
Originally posted by HoardCopperByTheTon
If the meltban were lifted.. the commercial interests would clean out the supply in a hurry. Even at todays low prices, the margins are substantial enough for a commercial operation.
This is cent hoarding in a nutshell. And it is not "if", it is "when". Within 2 years after a change to the composition of the cent (or elimination) the melt band will be lifted and cents to copper will be doable and the price will climb at least to the value of copper which is almost 2x now!
The problem is when this will happen is anyone's guess. But if you are in for the long term you will definitely make a nice profit. |
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JobIII
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1507 Posts |
Posted - 09/18/2009 : 07:22:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Neckro
Those are the same reason I stopped doing Copper.
Mind telling me what you mainly work with now? |
Selling Copper cents. $0 FV available at 1.4xFV. Also interested in trading for wheat pennies and other coins Please pm me for requests or inquiries.
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JobIII
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1507 Posts |
Posted - 09/18/2009 : 07:28:23
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quote:
Originally posted by barrytrot
quote:
Originally posted by HoardCopperByTheTon
If the meltban were lifted.. the commercial interests would clean out the supply in a hurry. Even at todays low prices, the margins are substantial enough for a commercial operation.
This is cent hoarding in a nutshell. And it is not "if", it is "when". Within 2 years after a change to the composition of the cent (or elimination) the melt band will be lifted and cents to copper will be doable and the price will climb at least to the value of copper which is almost 2x now!
The problem is when this will happen is anyone's guess. But if you are in for the long term you will definitely make a nice profit.
Hi 89gt,
Though it is true that the melt value on pennies will make them valuable. I would like to add there are other ways that require much less work to make a profit of 200%. Since we don't have a clue when the ban will occur. It may be wise to invest in a Commodity ETF, if you like the idea of PM's but don't want to spend time physically collecting the metals.
Just a thought!
~JobIII |
Selling Copper cents. $0 FV available at 1.4xFV. Also interested in trading for wheat pennies and other coins Please pm me for requests or inquiries.
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NotABigDeal
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
3890 Posts |
Posted - 09/18/2009 : 08:43:50
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quote:
Originally posted by JobIII
Hi 89gt,
Though it is true that the melt value on pennies will make them valuable. I would like to add there are other ways that require much less work to make a profit of 200%. Since we don't have a clue when the ban will occur. It may be wise to invest in a Commodity ETF, if you like the idea of PM's but don't want to spend time physically collecting the metals.
Just a thought!
~JobIII
You realize that most people here WANT physical right? Very liquid and a lot of guys want them. Why melt them? They would be readily accepted, as they alread are, in trade.
Deal |
Live free or die.
Plain and simple.
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your council or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen."
- Samuel Adams |
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HoardCopperByTheTon
Administrator
USA
6807 Posts |
Posted - 09/18/2009 : 09:07:22
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| barrytrot is right. I should have said "when" instead of "if." I am hoping that "when" is still a ways off.. I don't have enough copper yet. We are really in a sweet spot for sorting and hoarding right now. |
If your percentages are low.. just sort more. If your percentages are high.. just sort more.
Now selling Copper pennies. 1.6x plus shipping. Limited amounts available. |
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highroller4321
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
2648 Posts |
Posted - 09/18/2009 : 09:28:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Ardent Listener
In my youth I sorted out and saved 90% silver coins out of circulation. My brothers did too but soon gave up and either spent theirs or sold them to me. Though it's hard to believe now, it got discouraging back then to hold on to silver coins that no one really wanted. I didn't have a lot of extra money since few kids do.
We are in a transitional stage of copper becoming seen as a legitimant investment to the main stream media and everyone. I think this is exactly just like what happened after and slightly before they stopped making silver coinage. Its not if but when they either stop making the penny or change the composition when the prices will start to really jump.
#1 Yes, pennies are very liquid. I could make a phone call and sell $8,000 face value for $10,000 in an instant.
#2 People who look at the fundamentals of copper and see that the copper penny is already giving you a 180% return on your money. If I could not get as many as I can at face value, I would be buying as many as I can.
#3 Melting them is a ways off. The coppy penny is the cheapest way to invest in copper. Theres no need to melt them right now. Maybe when they are worth 5-10 cents than people will start to melt them.
#4 Yes, people accept them in a trade. I have seen people trade gold, silver, wheats, numis, ect for copper.
Don't give up on copper my friend. I belive you will regret it later on. Maybe just take a break for a week? Maybe your just burnt out on sorting? If your burnt out on sorting and still belive in copper than maybe start buying from fellow realcenters. Copper is not a "quick play". I belive a little patience will really pay off. |
Copper Penny Investing
www.portlandmint.com |
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theo
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
588 Posts |
Posted - 09/18/2009 : 09:46:17
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I'm a hand sorter and my progress is slow, but one thing that keeps me going is all the interesting (and sometimes valuable) coins you find in the penny rolls. Last night I found two very old wheats (1914 & 1917). It astounds me that nearly 100 year old coins are still in circulation. However, I would sort even without those types of finds.
Although it requires a little work, this is the absolute cheapest way to hedge against inflation. Remember, the best way to build wealth is to recognize value before others do.
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coinwolf
Penny Collector Member
USA
277 Posts |
Posted - 09/18/2009 : 10:56:54
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| Don't give up don't ever give up! (Jimmy Valvano famous quote) If you are getting burnt out slow down or maybe divert to searching for silver but don't give up! As others have stated look at the potential for copper pennies and for copper even in the near future! |
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barrytrot
Administrator
USA
721 Posts |
Posted - 09/18/2009 : 20:01:31
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quote:
Originally posted by JobIII
[quote]Though it is true that the melt value on pennies will make them valuable. I would like to add there are other ways that require much less work to make a profit of 200%.
Name 1 please. And don't tell me, "this stock will likely rise" as it is not anywhere near guaranteed. I mean give me one where you have a 100% guarantee of NOT losing money and another 100% guarantee within a few years of doubling.
Name any investment EVER that is like that. |
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Ardent Listener
Administrator
USA
4841 Posts |
Posted - 09/18/2009 : 20:27:47
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quote:
Originally posted by barrytrot
quote:
Originally posted by JobIII
[quote]Though it is true that the melt value on pennies will make them valuable. I would like to add there are other ways that require much less work to make a profit of 200%.
Name 1 please. And don't tell me, "this stock will likely rise" as it is not anywhere near guaranteed. I mean give me one where you have a 100% guarantee of NOT losing money and another 100% guarantee within a few years of doubling.
Name any investment EVER that is like that.
How about hoarding nickels?   |
Realcent.forumco.com disclosure. Please read.
All posts either by the members, moderators, and the administration of http://realcent.forumco.com are for your edification and amusement only. It is not the intent of realcent.forumco.com or its host to provide investment, medical, matrimonial, legal, security or tax advice and nothing posted here should be considered to be so. All rights reserved.
Think positive. |
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Topic |
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I think I've lost faith in sorting.... HELP ME
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