| Author |
 Topic  |
|
|
PennySaved
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1720 Posts |
 Posted - 07/31/2009 : 10:35:55
|
Just curious if you think it is smarter to invest in Canadian copper pennies vs. US copper pennies if you were given the choice.
I would assume it would be legal to melt Canadian pennies in the US? I know it is illegal to melt US pennies.
Reason I ask: If copper skyrockets in price and the US still has the melt ban in effect, I figured that might make Canadian pennies more attractive.
|
SELLING COPPER PENNIES 1.4X FACE SHIPPED......“I sincerely believe that banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies, and that the principles of spending money to be paid by posterity, under the name of funding, is but swindling futurity on a large scale” Thomas Jefferson |
|
|
barrytrot
Administrator
USA
721 Posts |
Posted - 07/31/2009 : 10:51:19
|
As most investment advisors are required by law to tell you: Diversify!
If the cost to aquire is equal regarding copper weight then get 1/2 of both.
Naturally if your cost to acquire is smaller for one vs. the other I would buy more of those.
If you are getting them direct from the bank for "face" then Canadian has a lot of benefits obviously since it is cheaper per coin and the percentage is a lot higher of "goods". |
 |
|
|
PennySaved
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1720 Posts |
Posted - 07/31/2009 : 10:56:42
|
Are Canadian pennies legal to melt though in the US?
I figure this would make them more attractive down the road.
Of course, I get my copper US cents for face value at the bank but do not get much Canadian coinage.
|
SELLING COPPER PENNIES 1.4X FACE SHIPPED......“I sincerely believe that banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies, and that the principles of spending money to be paid by posterity, under the name of funding, is but swindling futurity on a large scale” Thomas Jefferson |
|
|
|
natsb88
Administrator
USA
1850 Posts |
Posted - 07/31/2009 : 11:27:01
|
There is no law against melting Canadian coinage within the US. (but I'm not a lawyer, etc...)
Canadian cents are 98% copper, US are 95%.
In my experience, it takes an average of 164 Canadian cents to make a pound, versus 148 - 150 US cents.
Unless you live along the boarder, accumulating Canadian copper will probably require shipping.
I like them both  |
Nate
The Copper Cave
|
|
|
|
PennySaved
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1720 Posts |
Posted - 07/31/2009 : 12:08:16
|
| Do you think they will rescind the law against U.S copper penny melting anytime soon? |
SELLING COPPER PENNIES 1.4X FACE SHIPPED......“I sincerely believe that banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies, and that the principles of spending money to be paid by posterity, under the name of funding, is but swindling futurity on a large scale” Thomas Jefferson |
|
|
|
barrytrot
Administrator
USA
721 Posts |
Posted - 07/31/2009 : 12:21:49
|
It is 100% likely that the law will be removed eventually, but I wouldn't hold your breath. It will most likely be done within 1 to 2 years AFTER the cent is no longer zinc and AFTER the nickel is no longer nickel.
Prior to that there is very little chance of it being rescinded. |
|
|
|
JP_007
Penny Sorter Member
USA
58 Posts |
Posted - 07/31/2009 : 15:08:40
|
| In my opinion, as stated before, you really should look at the cost incurred to acquire the copper. Second, all things considered, U.S. cents have more promise as monetary as opposed to copper value over the long term. Again this is just my opinion so please take it with a grain of salt. Got to love that climbing copper price though!!!! Have a good weekend everyone! |
|
|
|
n/a
deleted
478 Posts |
Posted - 07/31/2009 : 15:56:29
|
| Canadian copper pennies are made in multiple weights, thickness, rim designs, queen portraits, metals etc. It's much easier to just collect the 59-81 U.S. cents. Just my opinion. |
|
|
|
Robarons
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
522 Posts |
Posted - 07/31/2009 : 15:56:38
|
I think Canadian Coppers are a better choice over US coppers. The higher weights (79 and prior) and 98% purities makes it a better copper product. As a bonus the Ban should not effect it, (but not a lawyer) so it makes it very liquid.
The bigger problem is to find a copper buyer who wants to melt coins with the queen on them. I do not think scrap yards are going to be ready for these coins when copper goes up.
P.S. Wasnt 69' or 72' (they jump out for some reason) the years when you could melt 90% coinage? |
Robber Baron= Robarons |
|
|
|
Bluegill
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1964 Posts |
Posted - 07/31/2009 : 16:42:25
|
quote:
Originally posted by Robarons
I think Canadian Coppers are a better choice over US coppers. The higher weights (79 and prior) and 98% purities makes it a better copper product.
Those pre-80 coins contain a tenth of a troy ounce by weight of Cu. The U.S. pennies total weight is a tenth of a troy ounce at 95% pure... If I had easy access to them, I would absolutely hoard them. I dig Canadian coins, so maybe I am a little biased... 
As far as the melt ban, maybe I'm looking at things all wrong.
But why is everybody in a hurry to melt down their Cu pennies, or sell to a melter? To what end? Now you have a fist full of worthless, depreciating FRN's.
I thought the whole idea was preservation of ones buying power. If the melt value of a Cu penny gets as high as some think, Au and Ag have probably also skyrocketed, which means the dollar has collapsed or is imminent of doing so.
I plan on saving my "junk" Cu just like I save "junk" Ag. To preserve my wealth. I would only convert to FRN's enough to pay whatever expenses that occur that day. Unless I could use it directly in the transaction instead of using FRN's, along with Au and Ag...
|
|
|
|
PennySaved
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1720 Posts |
Posted - 07/31/2009 : 16:53:05
|
| If copper pennies did become legal to melt, you wouldn't take a big chunk of them and melt/sell them so you could buy silver or gold? Silver and Gold are just so much easier to store and transport. Parts of my house are being overtaken by copper pennies; I wouldn't mind downsizing every once and a while to convert it to silver or gold :) |
SELLING COPPER PENNIES 1.4X FACE SHIPPED......“I sincerely believe that banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies, and that the principles of spending money to be paid by posterity, under the name of funding, is but swindling futurity on a large scale” Thomas Jefferson |
|
|
|
Bluegill
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1964 Posts |
Posted - 07/31/2009 : 20:18:50
|
quote:
Originally posted by PennySaved
If copper pennies did become legal to melt, you wouldn't take a big chunk of them and melt/sell them so you could buy silver or gold? Silver and Gold are just so much easier to store and transport. Parts of my house are being overtaken by copper pennies; I wouldn't mind downsizing every once and a while to convert it to silver or gold :)
I would have to see what the circumstances are when that time comes. I would definitely do it if it was in my favor. I'm still favoring the fact that no matter what happens to the price of metals, my penny hoard will always be worth what I paid for it. Plus I like to be diversified.
|
|
|
|
n/a
deleted
478 Posts |
Posted - 07/31/2009 : 20:52:35
|
[/quote]
I would have to see what the circumstances are when that time comes. I would definitely do it if it was in my favor. I'm still favoring the fact that no matter what happens to the price of metals, my penny hoard will always be worth what I paid for it. Plus I like to be diversified.[/quote]
Government action in a commonwealth country like Canada could make these coins worth only face value regardless of thier metal content. Any country that has the Queen on the coins is part of the Commonwealth. In New Zealand, they had HUGE cuproNI coins that almost pulled your pants down due to the size/weight. Of course the metal was worth more than the face value so the government did this in 2006, they made them ILLEGAL TO USE for normal business transactions. Never underestimate what the "G" can/will do with the stroke of a pen. The FUTURE IS NOW!:
New Zealand's old 50, 20, 10 and 5 cent coins are no longer legal tender. This means that retailers do not have to accept them as payment for goods or services. The coins will always be redeemable for face value at the Reserve Bank, No 2 The Terrace, Wellington.
On 31 July 2006, smaller and lighter 10, 20, and 50 cent coins were introduced into circulation. The new coins have retained the same designs, but the new 10 cent coin is copper-coloured, and the 20 cent coin has a distinctive edging. The $1 and $2 coins are unchanged.
You must be logged in to see this link. |
Edited by - n/a on 07/31/2009 21:02:45 |
|
|
|
HoardCopperByTheTon
Administrator
USA
6807 Posts |
Posted - 07/31/2009 : 21:10:32
|
As stated earlier by other members.. it is good to diversify. I have already sold some of my copper hoard and converted it to gold and silver.
My understanding is that it is legal to melt Canadian or other Commonwelth coins in the US and legal to melt US coins in Canada. But why would you want to melt when you have a government issued round of known weight and fineness?
I have both US and Canadian copper pennies in my hoard. I like them both. But I actually prefer British pennies.. they are BIGGER! |
If your percentages are low.. just sort more. If your percentages are high.. just sort more.
Now selling Copper pennies. 1.6x plus shipping. Limited amounts available. |
|
|
|
highroller4321
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
2648 Posts |
Posted - 07/31/2009 : 21:36:30
|
I prefer PRE 1980 Canadain copper. Anything newer than that than you might as well just have U.S copper.
As im told it is legal to melt Canadain coins in the U.S so when copper gets high and if there is still a melt ban on U.S pennies than you might have an easy out. However, you are going to have to educate the person on Canadain coins because most Americans don't know the composition of the coins.
If I could get Canadain copper easier I would be about 75% Canadain and 25% U.S.
They are talking about changing the composition of the U.S penny and nickel in 2010 so maybe by 2012-2015 we will be able to smelt the pennies.
When I sell and/or smelt I will be putting the proceds into silver and gold! |
Copper Penny Investing
www.portlandmint.com |
|
|
|
jonflyfish
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
693 Posts |
Posted - 07/31/2009 : 21:41:35
|
| To me there are pros of owning each that balance each other out. .03 difference in purity isn't a game stopper one way or the other. However, if melting is your idea then yes Canadian coppers may be melted in the US. If using coins to exchange and trade similar to old silver coins, bullion etc then NOT melting is the preference. You would want a known coin with a known source and trusted purity. In that case, US coins will be more easily recognized and traded. Diversity is the only free lunch... |
The first panacea for a mismanaged nation is inflation of the currency; second is war. Both bring a temporary (and false) prosperity; both bring a permanent ruin. But both are the refuge of political and economic opportunities. |
|
|
|
jadedragon
Administrator
Canada
3788 Posts |
Posted - 08/02/2009 : 00:54:29
|
| it might be a .03 difference but when you look at Canadian Cu pennies as having less then 50% of the impurities contained in a US Cu penny, I like Canadian Cu better. Plus our Cu percentages are better and we can export our coins if we want to. |
“The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” – George Bernard Shaw.
Why Copper Bullion ~~~ Interview with Silver Bullion Producer Market Harmony
Passive Income blog |
|
|
|
dakota1955
1000+ Penny Miser Member
2212 Posts |
Posted - 08/02/2009 : 07:53:34
|
| I am going for both as I get them I give them a place to rest in the pile with are the other ones I have. |
|
|
|
barrytrot
Administrator
USA
721 Posts |
Posted - 08/02/2009 : 08:25:29
|
quote:
Originally posted by PennySaved
If copper pennies did become legal to melt, you wouldn't take a big chunk of them and melt/sell them so you could buy silver or gold? Silver and Gold are just so much easier to store and transport. Parts of my house are being overtaken by copper pennies; I wouldn't mind downsizing every once and a while to convert it to silver or gold :)
Pennysaved, melting copper or any other metal to turn it into a refined bar isn't as easy as just lighting a fire. It takes time (i.e. money) some materials (i.e. money) and some learned skills (i.e. money). |
|
|
|
PennySaved
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1720 Posts |
Posted - 08/03/2009 : 10:26:11
|
Oh I wasn't talking about taking copper pennies and melting them and making a bar out of it.
I am just talking about taking some of the penny hoard and selling them and taking that money and buying gold or silver. You have to admit over time hoarding copper takes up quite a bit of room. |
SELLING COPPER PENNIES 1.4X FACE SHIPPED......“I sincerely believe that banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies, and that the principles of spending money to be paid by posterity, under the name of funding, is but swindling futurity on a large scale” Thomas Jefferson |
|
|
|
Cody8404
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
602 Posts |
Posted - 08/03/2009 : 14:27:56
|
When I sort they both coppers get saved. Zincoln and steel canadians are sent back.
I almost have a full roll of Canadian coppers. To me they are more appealing because I don't find as many. |
Awake, O kings of the earth! Come ye, O, come ye, with your gold and your silver, to the help of my people, to the house of the daughters of Zion, to the help of the people of the God of this Land even Jesus Christ. |
|
|
|
c140cessna
Penny Collector Member
USA
419 Posts |
Posted - 08/03/2009 : 18:12:52
|
As others have pointed out....takes about $1.64 mixed population of canadian to make a lb....vs. US at $1.50/lb....thus you need a 10% US advantage in exchange rate to hoard at parity.
About 40% of my hoard is Canadian...but I'm only 1 hr from Canada. I am mostly only hoarding Canadian these days - as my hoarding is fairly casual now.....2 years ago I was putting in 15 - 20 hr/wk in hoarding US.....so, that made a big US stash...and US bias.
Over time I'd like to be Canadian biased due to the ability to get around the ban. |
Edited by - c140cessna on 08/03/2009 18:14:05 |
|
|
| |
Topic |
|
Investing in Copper Pennies - Canadian or US?
Forum Locked
