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JobIII
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1507 Posts |
 Posted - 07/30/2009 : 08:57:03
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Hi all,
Just cleaned a handful of ugly abes with Salt & Vinegar. The baking soda method didn't work to get the abes clean. Also the S&V method didn't remove the gunk on the penny though it did return some shine to the uncovered areas. Any ideas how to remove the grime or verdigris from a penny, and also to restore the shine or polish?
Thanks,
~ JobIII
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Selling Copper cents. $0 FV available at 1.4xFV. Also interested in trading for wheat pennies and other coins Please pm me for requests or inquiries.
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just carl
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
601 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2009 : 09:06:20
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If you look up the word Verdigris you would find out it is created by Acedic Acid and your coins. The usage of Vinegar will actually create Verdigris, not get rid of it. In reality you should really not clean coins but if you must, here is a list of some of the items people use. Lemon Juice, Tomato Juice, Baking soda and water paste, Molases, lighter fluid, spit, distilled water, Acetone, Laquer Thinner, Paint thinners, Lime Juice and almost anything else that may contain some type of Acid. Note almost all types of POP contain Acids. In the past Coke has actually been used to free truck tires from the rims. Battery Acid from a car's battery will really take off most dirts.
Just remember that a cleaned coin has lost most of it's value to a coin collector. Same as if you took a 500 year old wood table and sanded it down and painted it with paint from Walmart.
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Carl |
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oober
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1304 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2009 : 09:10:56
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If its just bullion, cleaning the gunk off is fine with me... A product called "The works" has acetic acid and thats what I use... After a few hr soak in 5:1 mix of water and the works, I will use some soap and water swirl it around a bit. then rinse. Pennies are still ugly, but you can tell they are copper now...
If its a valuable penny I would only use some acetone rinse with distilled water... Thanks it.... If stuff doesn't come off, the coin will junk be gunky then... |
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JobIII
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1507 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2009 : 09:37:11
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Where do you find acetone these days?
This is strictly bullion. non-valuable penny stock.
The vinegar method works but, How do you restore the shine to the penny? I have some copper polish i'm tempted to use, but i'm trying to clean on a large scale >$10 batches.
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Selling Copper cents. $0 FV available at 1.4xFV. Also interested in trading for wheat pennies and other coins Please pm me for requests or inquiries.
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Lemon Thrower
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1588 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2009 : 09:39:26
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quote:
Originally posted by JobIII
Where do you find acetone these days?
This is strictly bullion. non-valuable penny stock.
The vinegar method works but, How do you restore the shine to the penny? I have some copper polish i'm tempted to use, but i'm trying to clean on a large scale >$10 batches.
i think acetone is in nail polish remover. |
Buying:
Peace/Morgan G+ at $15.00
copper cents at 1.3X
wheat pennies at 3X
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Edited by - Lemon Thrower on 07/30/2009 09:39:43 |
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JobIII
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1507 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2009 : 09:47:17
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| Not all nail polish contain acetone Lemon Thrower. I also believe paint thinner may still be purely Acetone, but it's been renamed, "mineral spirits", with the ingredients not listed... |
Selling Copper cents. $0 FV available at 1.4xFV. Also interested in trading for wheat pennies and other coins Please pm me for requests or inquiries.
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just carl
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
601 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2009 : 09:56:18
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quote:
Not all nail polish contain acetone Lemon Thrower. I also believe paint thinner may still be purely Acetone, but it's been renamed, "mineral spirits", with the ingredients not listed...
Completely wrong. Paint thinners containing mineral spirits has nothing to do with Acetone. Most nail polish removers do contain Acetone but also contain many other incrediants that can and do damage metals and coins are metal.
Almost any paint department in any stores, Walmart, Kmart, Sears, Menards, Home Depot, etc all carry cans of Acetone. Usually in Quart sizes right next to Denatured Alcohol, Laquer Thinner, etc.
CAUTION. Note that the usage of Acetone should be done carefully since it is highly combustable. |
Carl |
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JobIII
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1507 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2009 : 10:01:02
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| What is denatured alcohol? BTW sounds like you know a little bit about chemistry Carl. I may need to ask your adivce about some off coin topics later. |
Selling Copper cents. $0 FV available at 1.4xFV. Also interested in trading for wheat pennies and other coins Please pm me for requests or inquiries.
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Edited by - JobIII on 07/31/2009 10:15:49 |
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oober
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1304 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2009 : 11:31:48
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quote:
Originally posted by JobIII
Where do you find acetone these days?
This is strictly bullion. non-valuable penny stock.
The vinegar method works but, How do you restore the shine to the penny? I have some copper polish i'm tempted to use, but i'm trying to clean on a large scale >$10 batches.
I don't know of anythyung that will restore the shine. Shine comes from the flatness of a surface. Micro pits and scratches is the cause of "no shine".... |
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copperpennies
Penny Pincher Member
USA
222 Posts |
Posted - 07/31/2009 : 12:35:38
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| Denatured means they add something to the alcohol so you cant drink it, to ethnyol they add gasoline. |
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JobIII
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1507 Posts |
Posted - 07/31/2009 : 23:59:25
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| ahhh interesting. Well i'm going to try and bulk wash my bullion this weekend. I'll let you all know how it goes. The thing i'm most concerned with is making sure the acid is washed from the coins, and the cleaning process is neutralized. I guess too much time exposed to vinegar followed by oxygen will turn the coins black... |
Selling Copper cents. $0 FV available at 1.4xFV. Also interested in trading for wheat pennies and other coins Please pm me for requests or inquiries.
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jonflyfish
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
693 Posts |
Posted - 08/01/2009 : 09:50:45
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| When I see the ugliest of ugly Abe's while sorting for bullion, I'll just offer then back to the public along with the zincolns- the same way a farmer often leaves a few scraps in the field for the locals. |
The first panacea for a mismanaged nation is inflation of the currency; second is war. Both bring a temporary (and false) prosperity; both bring a permanent ruin. But both are the refuge of political and economic opportunities. |
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JobIII
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1507 Posts |
Posted - 08/01/2009 : 12:35:04
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quote:
jonflyfish Posted - 08/01/2009 : 09:50:45
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When I see the ugliest of ugly Abe's while sorting for bullion, I'll just offer then back to the public along with the zincolns- the same way a farmer often leaves a few scraps in the field for the locals.
For the moment I can see it not really making much of an impact. But think about the 40% clads that people didn't think much about, and how they are still so common today. I'll hold every copper for the pile, clean it if I must but they aren't getting back to circ on my watch |
Selling Copper cents. $0 FV available at 1.4xFV. Also interested in trading for wheat pennies and other coins Please pm me for requests or inquiries.
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just carl
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
601 Posts |
Posted - 08/03/2009 : 09:30:06
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quote:
Denatured means they add something to the alcohol so you cant drink it, to ethnyol they add gasoline.
As usual another erroneous statement. Denatured Alcohol is sold in the paint departments of most stores and used for non drinking purposes.
Methylated spirit Denatured alcohol is ethanol which is toxic or otherwise undrinkable, and in some cases dyed. It is used for purposes such as fuel for spirit burners and camping stoves, and as a solvent. Traditionally, the main additive was 10% methanol, which gave rise to methylated spirit. There are diverse industrial uses for ethanol, and therefore literally hundreds of recipes for denaturing ethanol. Typical additives are methanol, isopropyl alcohol, acetone, methyl ethyl ketone, methyl isobutyl ketone, denatonium,[1] and even (uncommonly) aviation gasoline
Also, not really a great thing for coins.
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Carl |
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just carl
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
601 Posts |
Posted - 08/03/2009 : 09:33:03
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quote:
What is denatured alcohol? BTW sounds like you know a little bit about chemistry Carl. I may need to ask your adivce about some off coin topics later.
Yes I do know a little about Chemistry. Aside from an Electrical Engineer, I also taught 3 semesters of Chemistry at a Junior College.
To continue the cleaning of coins thing. If you check Walmart you would find they now carry several types of jewlery cleaners. One of them will make most Copper coins look new. Of course remember that that will for sure distroy the coins Numismatic value. |
Carl |
Edited by - just carl on 08/03/2009 09:35:13 |
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JobIII
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1507 Posts |
Posted - 08/05/2009 : 15:59:08
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Hi Carl,
I'm not looking to purchase the small cleaning agents. I really would need something that can clean large amounts quickly. I don't care if this strips the coins of numismatic value as they are all at this point non-essential LMC dates (e.g. 1959-1981). And i think they will sell better if they looked shiny. People like pretty bullion not grudgy bullion. Though I still don't know what AU and BU look like, so they would still be in my bullion pile. I'm thinking they aren't worth the effort to keep.
I'll be washing my piles with salt & vinegar tomorrow. Should be fun hope the smell doesn't kill me.
~ JobIII |
Selling Copper cents. $0 FV available at 1.4xFV. Also interested in trading for wheat pennies and other coins Please pm me for requests or inquiries.
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Gr33nday43
New Member
Uzbekistan
10 Posts |
Posted - 08/05/2009 : 21:53:25
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| JobIII, for copper bullion strictly it may be a good idea to do the vinegar and salt wash. I wouldn't do it until close to selling time, however. As carl mentioned, over time vinegar will actually make the coins look worse. |
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JobIII
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1507 Posts |
Posted - 08/06/2009 : 11:17:52
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I just washed about 70 lbs of pennies. they were then washed with water (multiple rinses). And are currently sitting in my back yard drying in the sun. They appear to be very shiny, but definitely carry a cloudy rose color. I am doing this because it was requested by a buyer. So I'm assuming they will be happy to see the bullion cleaned.
BTW the vinegar smell is pretty brutal, but placing a lid on the wash container reduces the smell dramatically. Also I didn't have to use much vinegar, it seems that the salt was what sparked the "cleaning" catalyst. |
Selling Copper cents. $0 FV available at 1.4xFV. Also interested in trading for wheat pennies and other coins Please pm me for requests or inquiries.
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just carl
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
601 Posts |
Posted - 08/07/2009 : 14:49:57
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Just remember that the Vinegar will make the coins smell like a salad so don't eat them.   |
Carl |
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JobIII
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1507 Posts |
Posted - 08/08/2009 : 11:58:05
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| I'm not a big vinegrette fan, so no worries. The vinegar and salt method works, though they don't look AU or BU by any means. But they are definitely a lot cleaner. |
Selling Copper cents. $0 FV available at 1.4xFV. Also interested in trading for wheat pennies and other coins Please pm me for requests or inquiries.
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Neckro
1000+ Penny Miser Member
Saudi Arabia
2080 Posts |
Posted - 08/08/2009 : 12:01:15
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quote:
Originally posted by JobIII
I'm not a big vinegrette fan, so no worries. The vinegar and salt method works, though they don't look AU or BU by any means. But they are definitely a lot cleaner.
Try giving it a couple goes through the process. Might have become too deluded by all the filth |
Trolling is an art. |
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JobIII
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1507 Posts |
Posted - 08/11/2009 : 15:43:28
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It could have been the issue. I used less than a quarter of a gallon for 100 dollars in pennies. THough i went through a large amount of salt...
The coins looked great when they were rinsing in the water, then dried a little pink, but they looked good. None turned black which is something i was afraid might happen.
My spin on solvents is that these chemicals are so powerful a small amount goes a long way, and it takes a lot to over saturate such a solution.
~ JobIII |
Selling Copper cents. $0 FV available at 1.4xFV. Also interested in trading for wheat pennies and other coins Please pm me for requests or inquiries.
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just carl
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
601 Posts |
Posted - 08/13/2009 : 07:58:08
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Note that most solutions that contain any type of Acid will basically do the same as what you have done. For example most soft drinks contain an Acid. Tomato Juice, Lemon Juice, Lime Juice too contain Acids. It is usually the Acid in Vinegar that does the cleaning so you may want to try any solutions around the house that contain an Acid.
Baking Soda is just the opposite. However, with baking Soda and water solution it becomes a mild abbrasive which would create the necessity to rub each coin with that solution. This may work a little but would really take an excessive amount of time and labor and end up with some sore fingers if used on 70 pounds of coins. |
Carl |
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JobIII
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1507 Posts |
Posted - 08/13/2009 : 08:22:27
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I was given a poor report from my buyer. The coins he wants need to be near or at BU quality. Salt & vinegar is a decent cleaner improves the overall appearance, but doesn't restore the shiny BU look.
So i'm back to the chalk board for ideas. If anyone knows a method to restore a UNC appearance for pennies post it. I'm not worried about ruining the numismatic value here so anything that works will be great to read.
~ JobIII
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Selling Copper cents. $0 FV available at 1.4xFV. Also interested in trading for wheat pennies and other coins Please pm me for requests or inquiries.
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just carl
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
601 Posts |
Posted - 08/22/2009 : 12:40:11
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quote:
Originally posted by JobIII
I was given a poor report from my buyer. The coins he wants need to be near or at BU quality. Salt & vinegar is a decent cleaner improves the overall appearance, but doesn't restore the shiny BU look.
So i'm back to the chalk board for ideas. If anyone knows a method to restore a UNC appearance for pennies post it. I'm not worried about ruining the numismatic value here so anything that works will be great to read.
~ JobIII
Exactly what you should have expected. Try to remember that anything once new, then used, becomes difficult to return to it's original state. Take a pair of shoes for example. Buy them new, wear them a few times, now look at the bottom and the crease behind the toe areas. Unless you tore appart the shoe, put new soles on, new tops on, they would always look used. And if you did do that you would have recreated the entire shoe, not fixed the old one. Might be a poor similarity but once a new coin has something done to it, wear, scratches, dents, etc. the only way to return it to new is to remake it from the beginning.
Yes you can make old coins shine and some better than new but they will still show signs of being old and used. Many have actually taken Chrome or other metal polishes to coins. They will shine but still are not new. |
Carl |
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JobIII
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1507 Posts |
Posted - 08/24/2009 : 07:51:23
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These coins would be ideal if they would only be returned to very shiny. I believe the problem was that the vinegar and salt didn't clean the coins enough. I don't think scratches to the coins were a problem, because the buyer wanted to flatten the coins out for his business. I think i just didn't use strong enough chemicals or at least a strong enough concentration. I do agree that the idea of going back to BU is not an easy one, making the agreed price unfeasible.
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Selling Copper cents. $0 FV available at 1.4xFV. Also interested in trading for wheat pennies and other coins Please pm me for requests or inquiries.
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Topic |
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cleaning a penny with house hold items
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