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horgad
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1641 Posts |
 Posted - 05/01/2007 : 07:51:57
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I remember that article well. I think it is fairly obvious that the guy was just running off his mouth and didn't actually spend 5 minutes researching or thinking about the validity of his thoughts.
It is true that it would not be easy to get rich hoarding pennies, but his article makes it sound like you will lose money doing it..."$10,000 to store and transport" and "hard to find copper pennies"...get real.
I estimate that the copper that I can sort/hoard in an hour is worth $8.00 more than what I paid for it. This is using my homemade, inefficient, semi-automated system. $8.00 bucks an hour isn't going to make me rich, but I consider hoarding pennies a hobby and any hobby that pays you back anything is a good hobby.
Now imagine an operation with 5 Coin Artist type machines being operating by one person. Take the $8.00 I make and times it by 10 assuming that you you can solve a few scalability problems such as acquiring that many unsorted pennies and getting rid of that many zincs.
Or you could just buy nickels instead... |
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SmallCHange
Penny Sorter Member
USA
70 Posts |
Posted - 05/01/2007 : 08:03:22
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I like his statement when talking about hoarding post 82 pennies showing that the metal content in the penny is less than a penny:
"You didn’t really think the government would mint coins at a loss, did you?"
Even when this article was written the melt value of these post-82 pennies was only 15% less than Face Value. I would think costs of production and distribution would have made production of post 82 pennies at a loss. Now melt is only about 5% less than Face Value. Nickels now have melt value 85% over Face Value alone, no less costs of production and distribution.
I think he has little credibility to make that statement.
His further statement about finding pre-82 copper pennies
"If you can find a pre-1982 penny it would make a neat conversation piece"
Again totally wrong. They are still in circulation. In my area about 20% give or take and from reading this board, my area is about typical.
His arguement about the weight issue tho does have some merit tho, if the average person was out to make 10 Grand on pennies at one shot by selling to a smelter (which I doubt could be done legally anyway... I know I would not try it). My intention with saving copper pennies was not to sell to a smelter tho. Its more of an issue to have some hard cash in coinage with real value in case we get some type of WTSHTF sceniaro where the value of paper money disintegrates significantly. I think having at least some small percentage of anyones investment dollers put into coinage which can be legally obtained at FV and has melt content significantly above FV is a very reasonable thing to do. And its fun and kinda like a hobby.
"Born & Raised in the US, but wish things could be different now in the US, and I could imagine a better future ahead for our country." |
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beercritic
Penny Pincher Member
USA
112 Posts |
Posted - 05/01/2007 : 08:54:08
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"If you can find a pre-1982 penny it would make a neat conversation piece."
Gee, go thru a $25 box of pennies and you'll soon have HUNDREDS of conversation pieces.
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psi
Penny Collector Member
Canada
399 Posts |
Posted - 05/01/2007 : 11:04:00
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| Har, what a blowhard. Why not actually do a bit of field research for your article and test out the theory that coppers are so rare? All he did was spend 5 minutes on google looking up the history of the coin's composition and some recent prices. I guess the point of the article is more to provide people with a smart-ass response when hoarding comes up in discussion than to actually give a real assessment of its practicality. |
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c140cessna
Penny Collector Member
USA
419 Posts |
Posted - 05/01/2007 : 17:36:23
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quote:
Originally posted by horgad
.....Now imagine an operation with 5 Coin Artist type machines being operating by one person. Take the $8.00 I make and times it by 10 assuming that you you can solve a few scalability problems such as acquiring that many unsorted pennies and getting rid of that many zincs......
RYEDALE COIN ARTIST MATH
I've been scoring 15 - 20 boxes per week with minimal problem using 4 local banks....I order in boxes and also just trade my sorted against what the order for normal business activities. 20 boxes has 50,000 coins.
The Coin Artist can sort 18,000 coins per hour. Around here I can count on about 30% Cu / 70% Zn in a typical penny population. 18,000 x 30% = 5,400 copper pennies per hour. 5,400 / (150 pennies per lb) = 36 lbs of copper per hour. 36 lbs Cu x $3.70/lb = $133 Cu Spot Value. My net cost for the 5,400 copper pennies is $54......$133 Value - $54 Cost = $79 PROFIT.....for every hour I can keep the machine fed with pennies! In the above example, it would be 2.8 hours of sort time.....2.8 x $79 = $221 Profit per week.....$11,500/year.
You can join a credit union or bank that will take back bulk Zn for no cost/minimal cost.....that is what I do with a lot of my Zn. I joined 2 credit unions since I'm returning several boxes Zn per week....I wrap and trade the rest with other banks to get fresh boxes.
Overall, my 20 box per week activity takes about 6 - 8 hours of total activity (buy/trade/return coins + sort time + wrap time). Still, $221 / 8 hours = $28/hour.....
I'm obviously a big fan of the Ryedale Coin Artist.....how can one not be......just look at the numbers.....it is a great "Part-Time-Job".....I'm the boss and I set the schedule.
It's been just 6 weeks and I'm over 35% of they way to my first ton....
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horgad
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1641 Posts |
Posted - 05/02/2007 : 07:57:17
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Thanks, that is all great information. I just have one question. You said, "You can join a credit union or bank that will take back bulk Zn for no cost/minimal cost.....that is what I do with a lot of my Zn. I joined 2 credit unions since I'm returning several boxes Zn per week...." When you return bulk zinc, how do you count and package them or are the credit unions counting them for you?
Returning zincs is a major barrier for me at as I have yet to find a bank that offers free counting and I am too lazy to hand roll a ton of zincs. Maybe I need to go in and set up a business account telling them I clean fountains or operate penny gumball machines or do a penny charity collections or something. But I am still guessing that I would need some kind of coin counter for making up the bulk packages or maybe I could do it by weight. |
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c140cessna
Penny Collector Member
USA
419 Posts |
Posted - 05/02/2007 : 19:12:07
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| My two credit unions have automated coin accepting/counting machines....just dump in the coins and it bulk counts them....the bank girls have to change the bags in the machine if I dump too many coins at one time....I try to find the friendly girls to help change the bags and I become friendly with them. Even if there is a small fee...say 2%....that is pretty cheap and a lot easier than rolling. Most credit unions around here have these coin machines/counters....you should be able to find the same. |
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Ryedale
Administrator
USA
523 Posts |
Posted - 05/02/2007 : 22:06:02
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I remember reading Mr VanEeden's post last year.
I would lay money on the fact that he is actively hoarding pre 82 pennies.
Has anybody ever heard the rumor that Alan Greenspan was actively hoarding drums of pennies in 1981 for the copper content and long term numismatic play? I searched it and found only articles about him "saving" his pennies. But no reference to the volume I heard rumor of. They were talking drums, warehouses, climate control etc.
I will continue to search.
Ryedale
Hoard Copper Pennies,
The market will develop |
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Canadian_Nickle
Penny Hoarding Member
Canada
938 Posts |
Posted - 05/03/2007 : 00:19:47
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"I would lay money on the fact that he is actively hoarding pre 82 pennies. "
I second that.
________________________
"A nickel's nothing to scoff at."
C. Montgomery Burns
HoardCode0.1: M28/5CAON:CA5Ni35000:CA1Cu1200:CA100Ag345:
CA10Ag250:CA50Ag100:CA25Ag30:CA500Ag48:US100Ag20:CA1000Ag16
How to read a HoardCode:
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HoardCopperByTheTon
Administrator
USA
6807 Posts |
Posted - 05/03/2007 : 01:52:16
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quote:
Originally posted by horgad
Thanks, that is all great information. I just have one question. You said, "You can join a credit union or bank that will take back bulk Zn for no cost/minimal cost.....that is what I do with a lot of my Zn. I joined 2 credit unions since I'm returning several boxes Zn per week...." When you return bulk zinc, how do you count and package them or are the credit unions counting them for you?
Returning zincs is a major barrier for me at as I have yet to find a bank that offers free counting and I am too lazy to hand roll a ton of zincs. Maybe I need to go in and set up a business account telling them I clean fountains or operate penny gumball machines or do a penny charity collections or something. But I am still guessing that I would need some kind of coin counter for making up the bulk packages or maybe I could do it by weight.
Getting rid of the zinc slag from our copper mining venture is a problem we all face. The best solution is if you can find a credit union that takes them in bulk. I haven't found one in my area yet, but I am still looking. Hand rolling can certainly be tedious. You could get yourself an autmatic wrapping machine, but they are kinda expensive. I have a couple of Glory wrapping machines, and I love them! Each one wraps 10 rolls a minute. If you want to do it by weight on a small digital scale just find a little container to hold the pennies, tare the container, then add pennies until you get to 126 grams and roll them up. Another budget solution is to get one of those little Royal Soveriegn machines they sell about a million of on eBay. You can either have it count the pennies directly into the preformed rolls or just count out 50 and stop, then you roll them up.
"Preserving coinage.. 2 tons at a time"
HoardCode0.1:M48/14USCA:US1Cu639700:US5Ni2400:CA5Ni46 |
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any1 see this commentary
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