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Copper Catcher
Administrator
USA
2092 Posts |
 Posted - 06/08/2009 : 07:42:50
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For years now I have felt as if the US Mint was acting more like QVC and the Home Shopping Network than a place were coins are produced.
The general public is constantly being duped and coin dealers are pushing the hype just as hard as they can as well. Countless grandparents have purchased sets of golden dollars, state quarters and presidential dollars for grand kids thinking they are truly buying something of value that "one day" will be worth more.
Sadly, the push for short term profits does nothing to build the long term interest of future collectors. The SHTF when the person finds out what they have has little or no long term value.
Can you say fraud? Think about this for a moment if you or I advertised for sale a "Golden Dollar" the way the U.S. Mint did don't you think they would put you in jail?
What say you?? Are you as frustrated as I am?
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daviscfad
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1664 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2009 : 08:58:11
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I am not really frustrated with the mint b.c a lot of the proofs and silver proofs hold there value. the thing i do not like is how there making 5 or 6 different quarters and 5 diffferent dollar coins. thats a little dumb i think. I dont think the mint is as out of control as HSN and them though but i dont think they are helping the cause
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Inquiring minds want to know |
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Gr33nday43
New Member
Uzbekistan
10 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2009 : 15:47:26
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"Caveat emptor"
Honestly, I have no sympathy for uneducated sheeple. They regard me as crazy, and I do the same to them (I just don't tell them). I do have worries though that once the sheep wake up from their long nap and realize the coins they are buying have no value, they make falsely recognize that the coins that have actual value (Morgans for example) are also valueless. |
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Neckro
1000+ Penny Miser Member
Saudi Arabia
2080 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2009 : 16:22:40
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| I'd blame more of the media outlets trying to sell them off as "Collector" items. The mint just over produces pieces no one wants. |
Trolling is an art. |
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WheatieFan
Penny Pincher Member
USA
106 Posts |
Posted - 06/10/2009 : 21:22:22
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On the one hand, the mint itself is producing too much crap. The XXX Quarter program may last indefinitely. Native american dollars, presidents, four types of pennies, etc... Other countries such as Canada and France have gone off the deep end, and numismatists eventually tune them out. But the mints keep producing because just enough people keep buying. One problem for the USA is that the mint doesn't make these decisions--congresscritters do.
On the other hand, there are advertisements like you see in Parade. The US Mint has nothing to do with those operations. They all have sneaky names like "The Washington Mint" or "The New York Mint" in an attempt to deceive people. I think those companies are despicable.
-wheatiefan
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just carl
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
601 Posts |
Posted - 06/30/2009 : 08:30:09
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Your looking at possibly the end to coin collecting. Our Mint is now doing the same thing the postal idiots did with Stamp Collecting. OVERKILL. Collecting coins has been around for possibly thousands of years and now the excessive piles of STUFF the Mint is producing may well end this hobby. NO it will not completely end similar to stamps, but a real crash is possible.
Remember the Beanie Babies. Overkill finished that one. Then there was the Hot Wheel Craze and again the manufacturers did Overkill and so down with those values.
With every craze, hobby, business we all do that thing called OVERKILL. When VHS tapes first came out little stores popped up all over the place renting or selling them and now are all gone.
Of course you all remember Baseball/Football cards. I remember when my kid was able to buy them by the box of 500 for $1 as again, companies did thier OVERKILL of a hobby.
Coins are next. |
Carl |
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Ant
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
894 Posts |
Posted - 07/01/2009 : 10:23:33
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I agree.
The Statehood Quarters series, the most successful of the Mint's new coinage programs, did initially draw attention to numismatics. Unfortunately, most of the people collecting the quarters lost interest once they finished the series. The quarters happened to work well because quarters are the most used of all coins.
The nickel program flopped because the coins aren't often used. Look at nickels. I love the new designs, but most people don't use a nickel. A lot of people don't even know the reverse has changed, much less the obverse.
Presidential dollars -- meh. They aren't widely circulated to begin with, plus they aren't that striking of a coin. Same deal for the Sacagawea dollars.
Even the new Lincoln cents -- the general public isn't interested.
So it's still the same group of people collecting coins -- us. 
The Mint doesn't realize that there's more to numismatics than just the design on a coin. Putting out a bunch of coins isn't the answer. IMO, removing the presidents and reviving the "Liberty" theme would be better than umpteen new reverses. The Mint also doesn't realize that coin collectors are also interested in history and the social context in which coins were circulated -- a good coin tells a story. A good coin also knocks your socks off when you look at it -- I don't get that feeling from the new releases.
Will the recent releases be popular later on? I dunno, too soon to tell. Commemorative half dollars are pretty popular, so you never know. But right now, the Mint's new releases aren't drawing new collectors.
Good topic! |
Lovely dimes, the liveliest coin, the one that really jingles. --Truman Capote
Coins are the metallic footprints of the history of nations. --William H. Woodin |
Edited by - Ant on 07/01/2009 10:26:37 |
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Cody8404
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
602 Posts |
Posted - 07/01/2009 : 12:58:46
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From Experience the mint coins drop in value by half by the end of the first year. If you hold them for 20 years or more they might come back to the price paid for them. This is not counting for inflation, which is another thread.
I learned a lot about coin collecting from the mint in the 1980's. I bought several collectors commemorative coins. The 1982 Washington Half Dollar, 1983/84 Olympics sets, the 1986 Statue of Liberty, and the 1987 Constitution.
Then I lost interest. Several years later I fell on hard times. I took them to a coin dealer and they were worth about half what I paid for them. He offered my about 1/4 what I paid for them, about right.
I have watched the markets for these for the past few years. There are a few coins the mint makes that go up in price. These need to be coins with very important images, but few people willing or able to buy them. In the past 20 years the 2001 Buffalo Dollar has went up, and the 2001 Sacagawea dollar has went up.
Most coins if they are popular when the mint makes them too many are made and the price stays down. If they are not popular then no one wants them now or later. Prices again stay down.
Collector coins are meant for the collector, not for the trader or investor.
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Awake, O kings of the earth! Come ye, O, come ye, with your gold and your silver, to the help of my people, to the house of the daughters of Zion, to the help of the people of the God of this Land even Jesus Christ. |
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moboman
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
2555 Posts |
Posted - 07/01/2009 : 13:20:22
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| On top of that prices are getting out of hand. The average coin collector cant afford a 27 coin set, a proof gold eagle, and whatever else it is the mint puts out for collectors like they could in the old days. There are many people who have just collected everything the mint put out for years, now they have to chose what to buy. |
"99% of all lawyers give the rest of them a bad name"
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Ant
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
894 Posts |
Posted - 07/01/2009 : 13:25:30
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quote:
Originally posted by moboman
On top of that prices are getting out of hand. The average coin collector cant afford a 27 coin set, a proof gold eagle, and whatever else it is the mint puts out for collectors like they could in the old days.
Yes, exactly this! Plus, some of those bullion items, the Mint doesn't even make enough of the good stuff available.  Oh sure, you can get all the First Spouse coins you want (with a ridiculous premium), but not an eagle or buffalo. Hmph! Hmph! I say! |
Lovely dimes, the liveliest coin, the one that really jingles. --Truman Capote
Coins are the metallic footprints of the history of nations. --William H. Woodin |
Edited by - Ant on 07/01/2009 13:26:06 |
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Know Common Cents
Penny Pincher Member
195 Posts |
Posted - 07/03/2009 : 09:40:49
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Personally, I go for the castoffs that have some intrinsic value. Take the modern commem silver dollars (starting in 1986 with the SOL). The public has been dumping most everything they own of a gold or silver nature and the larger dealers have a huge surplus of these coins. Many are just shipped off to the refineries and melted. Others are wholesaled back and forth at 5-10% back of melt. I've been a buyer of these at 3% back of melt (on the silver dips). The dealer is happy because it's a better deal than he can get from his peers and no shipping is required. CIFIK (Cash in fist is king.)
These actually are nice looking coins. Any that might be hazy are put aside for my own bullion pile when silver claws its way back. The best of the best are kept for the long haul.
Other than that, I have little use for the mint. Let someone else pay the high prices and I'll be there for the disappointed sellers. Cruel? Nah. All part of the food chain. |
Here in Wisconsin, we have some of the highest property and gasoline taxes in the US. We're squeezed so much, I have to make my daughter wear penny boxes for shoes. At least she has an endless supply. |
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thewalrus81
Penny Sorter Member
93 Posts |
Posted - 07/11/2009 : 16:49:54
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"The nickel program flopped because the coins aren't often used. Look at nickels. I love the new designs, but most people don't use a nickel. A lot of people don't even know the reverse has changed, much less the obverse. "
This is very true, and it boggles my mind when I see a person look at a Westward Journey nickel and say something like "when did they do this?" I just can't imagine not noticing for 5 years! |
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just carl
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
601 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2009 : 09:50:40
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quote:
"The nickel program flopped because the coins aren't often used. Look at nickels. I love the new designs, but most people don't use a nickel. A lot of people don't even know the reverse has changed, much less the obverse. "
WHAT? The Mint change the Nickel? When? Now I have to look for one to see what is different.  |
Carl |
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barrytrot
Administrator
USA
721 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2009 : 15:58:10
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I disagree with the OP.
#1 the mint doesn't make the "gold plated" or "platinum plated" stuff. That IS QVC! :)
#2 the mint products are actually a pretty viable investment in many cases. Sure some of their products aren't great, but many are pretty decent. Some examples:
- Getting dollar coins FOR FACE with free shipping. Searching for errors and such would net a 100% chance of profit!
- The Silver Mint sets are high priced silver but they tend to hold most of their value over time and the after market is definitely higher than mint prices for the most part.
- Gold eagles and the Gold "Double Eagle" hold their values well and are sold for a reasonable increase over spot.
- Silver eagles hold their value well and are sold for a reasonable increase over spot. |
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jtm3
Penny Pincher Member
USA
187 Posts |
Posted - 07/31/2009 : 09:42:00
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quote:
Originally posted by barrytrot
I disagree with the OP.
#1 the mint doesn't make the "gold plated" or "platinum plated" stuff. That IS QVC! :)
#2 the mint products are actually a pretty viable investment in many cases. Sure some of their products aren't great, but many are pretty decent. Some examples:
- Getting dollar coins FOR FACE with free shipping. Searching for errors and such would net a 100% chance of profit!
- The Silver Mint sets are high priced silver but they tend to hold most of their value over time and the after market is definitely higher than mint prices for the most part.
- Gold eagles and the Gold "Double Eagle" hold their values well and are sold for a reasonable increase over spot.
- Silver eagles hold their value well and are sold for a reasonable increase over spot.
Most modern circulation stuff doesn't hold its value though.
I prefer to buy the proof sets and uncirculated sets though because they do. |
Copper Cent Hoarding Wiki
coppercenthoarding.wikia.com
+637 posts |
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just carl
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
601 Posts |
Posted - 08/03/2009 : 09:47:53
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Discussions of coin values are really a good method to see how the general populace thinks of coins. However, if you really want to know what is what in coin collecting as an investment, there is basically only one method. ATTEMPT to sell some. If you have any coins that you suspect or know are worth a certain amount, take them to a coin store or coin show and pretend to sell them. What your offered is what they are really worth, regardless of any books, magazines, web sites, TV shows, etc.
A really great example is take a completed set of those State Quarters to some place and try to sell them. Usually no dealer will even offer you a little more than face value. The Mint really flooded the market. It is fun for some to acquire all that stuff though. And kids really do learn about our ex presidents if collecting those baby sized dollars. But value? Just try selling that stuff. |
Carl |
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Ant
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
894 Posts |
Posted - 08/03/2009 : 10:15:35
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quote:
Originally posted by just carl
If you have any coins that you suspect or know are worth a certain amount, take them to a coin store or coin show and pretend to sell them. What your offered is what they are really worth, regardless of any books, magazines, web sites, TV shows, etc.
A really great example is take a completed set of those State Quarters to some place and try to sell them. Usually no dealer will even offer you a little more than face value. The Mint really flooded the market. It is fun for some to acquire all that stuff though. And kids really do learn about our ex presidents if collecting those baby sized dollars. But value? Just try selling that stuff.
Or heck, just take a few items to a coin club meeting where they have an auction. At my club, mint sets get few/low bids, a fraction of what they cost originally, so they've actually lost value over time. Even silver proof sets don't go for much over spot.
But if we collect the coins we love, we won't be disappointed if they don't increase in value. It's good to speculate on some coins, but I wouldn't make that my sole reason for collecting. I think most long-term collectors realize that -- it's the people new to the hobby who are sucked in by the Mint.
Full disclosure: I am buying the presidential dollars proof series  because my son likes history.  He writes a little report about each president -- once he's finished all four in each set, he gets the coins. |
Lovely dimes, the liveliest coin, the one that really jingles. --Truman Capote
Coins are the metallic footprints of the history of nations. --William H. Woodin |
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PennySaved
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1720 Posts |
Posted - 08/04/2009 : 13:22:12
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Have any of you seen that infommercial on TV for that $50 remake of American Gold Eagle coin?
They slip in there that its "gold clad" but how many people in the public know that means gold plated.
Now they are offering a FREE silver clad American Silver Eagle and it really looks like a real American Silver Eagle
Wonder how many people have been duped by that commercial. |
SELLING COPPER PENNIES 1.4X FACE SHIPPED......“I sincerely believe that banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies, and that the principles of spending money to be paid by posterity, under the name of funding, is but swindling futurity on a large scale” Thomas Jefferson |
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jtm3
Penny Pincher Member
USA
187 Posts |
Posted - 08/04/2009 : 21:14:36
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quote:
Originally posted by PennySaved
Have any of you seen that infommercial on TV for that $50 remake of American Gold Eagle coin?
They slip in there that its "gold clad" but how many people in the public know that means gold plated.
Now they are offering a FREE silver clad American Silver Eagle and it really looks like a real American Silver Eagle
Wonder how many people have been duped by that commercial.
Yep, those THINGS have about the same value as those Obama collectible medallions. |
Copper Cent Hoarding Wiki
coppercenthoarding.wikia.com
+637 posts |
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just carl
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
601 Posts |
Posted - 08/07/2009 : 14:59:03
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This latest Mints massive variety of different coins will probably end up like the Bicentennial Quarters. Some time back in the 70's myself and a freind got caught up in that one. We both went nuts colleting as many of those Bicentennial Quarters as possible. As close to MS grades as possilbe also. My freind ended up some time ago with a few thousand dollars worth and I too had seveal hundred dollars worth. We both took a lot of them to some coin shows and attempted to sell them. Only one dealer made an offer and it was $0.24/each as an expression of how little interest in those there is. We both ended up dumping them at a bank.
I suspect that is where the greatest amount of these latest Quarters will end up. |
Carl |
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Neckro
1000+ Penny Miser Member
Saudi Arabia
2080 Posts |
Posted - 08/07/2009 : 15:34:25
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| Some collect to invest, some do it because they enjoy a certain type of coin. Some do both. If it makes you happy, it shouldn't matter the value down the road. |
Trolling is an art. |
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An Opinion - Coin Hype
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