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Bootstrap
Penny Collector Member
USA
279 Posts |
 Posted - 03/15/2009 : 23:26:28
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On a couple other forums I constantly see U.S. 40% coinage (Halves, Brown, and Blue Ikes) referred to as a "loser".
I understand that one of the biggest downfalls of 40% silver is that there is less silver per coin. Therefore, a large position in 40% would require more space than 90% or .999 coins.
40% coinage is composed of the same metals as 90% coinage so in the case of legalized melting and refining should not be an issue unlike nickels which contain manganese.
I am curious what are the other reasons that cause 40% to achieve "loser" status?
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Edited by - Bootstrap on 03/15/2009 23:45:41 |
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CoinHunter53562
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1805 Posts |
Posted - 03/15/2009 : 23:33:55
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| I've never heard it called that, but you hit on a point about the bulkiness of these. You need almost 7 of them to get 1 oz of silver compared to roughly 3 of the 90% halves to get 1 oz. I only buy them if I can get them at a good deal and turn them around quickly for a profit. |
My hobby: collecting real money 1 copper cent or nickel at a time.
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jadedragon
Administrator
Canada
3788 Posts |
Posted - 03/15/2009 : 23:45:21
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There is no law prohibiting the melting of 40% or 90% silver - and it is done all the time.
While the 40% takes up more room, I would guess a 1000 of them would fit in a paint can (not a bad place to store PM too) so the bulkiness arguement is kind of weak. If you are saving copper pennies, 40% Silver carries a lot more value per sq.ft.
One of the benefits of 40% and 35% silver is that they can be bought for much closer to face then 90%. If silver were to go way down, you always have face value as a "stop loss". So using the 7 X 40% 50 cents number given - if Silver dropped to below $3.50 an ounce, you would not lose anymore below the $3.50 level because you could just spend the coins (on cheaper silver?)
Silver would have to drop to $1 for the face value of the ASE to do the same thing. This is one of the bemefits to the $5 Maple Leaf - face was pretty close to melt for a few years.
Another benefit to the 40%ers is that you get a bunch of copper for free when you buy at silver melt value. In a melt, the copper would also have some value I guess. |
“The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” – George Bernard Shaw.
Why Copper Bullion ~~~ Interview with Silver Bullion Producer Market Harmony
Passive Income blog |
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highroller4321
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
2648 Posts |
Posted - 03/15/2009 : 23:49:45
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| 40% is sometimes called the "loser" becuase it usually sells at a discount under its melt value. This is because it takes so many of them to get a decent amount of silver, and also because it costs the refiners more to get the other metals out and just get the silver |
Copper Penny Investing
www.portlandmint.com |
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Bootstrap
Penny Collector Member
USA
279 Posts |
Posted - 03/15/2009 : 23:54:07
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Jaded,
The points you've outlined are exactly why I like 40%. I feel with 40% I have less downside risk in a deflationary environment and typically I can get 40% at prices better than 90% and .999+. There reason are why my first silver purchase was 40%. I am just curious what are downsides people see associated with 40%.
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Bootstrap
Penny Collector Member
USA
279 Posts |
Posted - 03/15/2009 : 23:58:37
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quote:
Originally posted by highroller4321
40% is sometimes called the "loser" becuase it usually sells at a discount under its melt value. This is because it takes so many of them to get a decent amount of silver, and also because it costs the refiners more to get the other metals out and just get the silver
Does it really cost the refiner more? The metal composition is still only copper and silver. I suppose the melting points would be different as the percentages are different. |
Edited by - Bootstrap on 03/15/2009 23:59:45 |
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theo
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
588 Posts |
Posted - 03/16/2009 : 10:15:20
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I've also heard it argued that most people recognize the pre-1965 quarters and dimes as having silver, but far fewer know that pre-1971 Kennedy half also has some silver content. So in a SHTF scenario it would more difficult to use the Kennedys to buy goods.
I disagree in that when dollar starts crashing, it won't take long for your average person to be able to identify every coin with silver content. |
Edited by - theo on 03/16/2009 10:15:46 |
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Bootstrap
Penny Collector Member
USA
279 Posts |
Posted - 03/16/2009 : 10:36:46
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quote:
Originally posted by theo
I disagree in that when dollar starts crashing, it won't take long for your average person to be able to identify every coin with silver content.
My thoughts exactly as anyways the general populations thoughts on silver coinage is very limited to non-existent.
If one was using the rationale stated above for the SHTF scenario the probably would best off only investing in .999 rounds as .999 rounds clearly state Fine Silver .999 and the amount of silver. |
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wagsthadog
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
565 Posts |
Posted - 03/16/2009 : 16:40:40
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Hi all-
I'm guilty. I sell my 40% when I get a lot and I use it to buy 90% silver or gold. It's not that I have anything against 40% personally, but I'd rather hold 90% or higher silver than hold an amalgam of silver cladding, etc.
I got spooked a few weeks ago when I tried to sell some foreign gold coins. I found one coin shop that bought them, but I got at least 8 "no" answers on Craigslist and one other COIN DEALER refused. So, I would tread carefully on getting "deals" on gold and silver. ASE's are +$3 over spot for a reason...: P
JMO
wags |
Only when they CAN'T have it, ......THEN they'll want it.
I love Cents. If you get an UNC box, you win. If you get a regular circ. box, you win. If you get a zinc box, you don't lose....so you still win. |
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barrytrot
Administrator
USA
721 Posts |
Posted - 03/16/2009 : 16:50:53
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Wags: Why sell to coin dealers? Even ebay generally beats their price. Certainly a sale on here is INSTANTANEOUS at dealer prices! There is no limit to the market for any gold/silver on here and several other sites.
Others: 40% is great if you like to keep a running total of your total "net" silver and you like to pay little to no premium! It's not as great when you sell, of course, but getting above spot is still no problem. At least it's never been for me. I have bought under spot several times though! So, I guess it just takes a little more time.
Regarding bulk: Don't mention that on a penny hoarding board :) If you have anything near "bulk" you have 100 million dollars worth of silver any way :)
Edited to add: Oh, and anyone that doesn't like 40% silver, send me a pm and I'll take it off your hands for a reasonable rate all day! |
Edited by - barrytrot on 03/16/2009 16:52:44 |
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oober
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1304 Posts |
Posted - 03/16/2009 : 19:07:25
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| Sell your 40% here Wags, I am sure there will be buyers... |
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wagsthadog
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
565 Posts |
Posted - 03/17/2009 : 13:18:03
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Hi all-
Yes but.....the dealer gives me cash on the spot- no receipt, no record, no trace....
I don't usually sell anything, but I'll keep it in mind when I get a sizeable amount again!
wags |
Only when they CAN'T have it, ......THEN they'll want it.
I love Cents. If you get an UNC box, you win. If you get a regular circ. box, you win. If you get a zinc box, you don't lose....so you still win. |
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jadedragon
Administrator
Canada
3788 Posts |
Posted - 03/17/2009 : 13:30:22
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quote:
Originally posted by wagsthadog
Hi all-
Yes but.....the dealer gives me cash on the spot- no receipt, no record, no trace....
I don't usually sell anything, but I'll keep it in mind when I get a sizeable amount again!
wags
I will also give you cash on the spot (via paypal or check), I don't keep records of what I buy and good luck finding my stash. |
“The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” – George Bernard Shaw.
Why Copper Bullion ~~~ Interview with Silver Bullion Producer Market Harmony
Passive Income blog |
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40% U.S. Coinage
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