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slickeast
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
2533 Posts |
 Posted - 03/02/2009 : 10:33:13
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With the dow sinking faster than Obama can waste money I can't believe the gas prices are holding and sometimes creeping up.
Everyday you turn the T.V, on they talk about how many people are losing their jobs yet gas is either holding or going up. How do you buy food/ pay bills / and put gas in your car to go job hunting.
Since there are soooo many people out of a job the $13 dollar tax cut ain't gonna help those people either.
And AIG wants 30B more???? WHAT??? HUHHH?    61.7 B loss this quarter??? LET THEM FAIL !!!!!!
Haven't we already gave them 150+ BILLION.
The gov't bails out the "Little 3" and they want more...look at the topic about a picture is worth a thousand words and look at the post where the link shows 100's of thousands of cars just sitting. So we need to let them keep building cars for them to pile up?
What are we gonna do with them? Have brand new 2008, 2009 cars on the lot in 2012?
Where is the peoples bailout?
Give the people 1.5 Trillion or whatever the gov't has poured down the drain to the people. Let the people decide which companies succeed or fail.
If they get their mortage upto date then it helps the banks...if they buy a car it helps the auto workers.....if they go to the malls or wal-mart it lets the common worker keep their jobs.
Why is the gov't deciding who stays and who fails? I think that I will let my daughter (5 ) start a lemonade stand..........if it fails maybe she can get a billion/ trillion / zillion dollar bailout.
Who else is getting tired of the gov't throwing your money in the trash?
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You don't have to be the BEST you just have to be.......SLICK
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Neckro
1000+ Penny Miser Member
Saudi Arabia
2080 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2009 : 10:43:56
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| Nothing is to big to fail. Gas prices rise as the refiners cut back production to create artificial 'drought'. And your daughter might have to employ a congressmen first. I still don't see how the dollar is so strong while our economy is basically crap going down the toilet. |
Trolling is an art. |
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horgad
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1641 Posts |
 Posted - 03/02/2009 : 12:03:18
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| The worst of both worlds will be if inflation returns before the economy recovers. It can happen. Image increasing unemployment and rising prices all at the same time. If that happens, the Great Depression will look like a cake walk... |
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Cerulean
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
993 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2009 : 13:48:22
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The metaphor I've been using for the money supply is that of a kitchen sink. The banks have been losing lots of money down the drain to the tune of billions a week. The water level is receding, and people are worried the sink will run empty. All that money is disappearing into the void from which it came. So what is the government's reaction? To turn the faucet on full blast. All that new water will just flow down the drain like the water before it. The only way out is to plug the drain, not to add more water.
I've been watching the BEP and Mint production figures since 2006, and they are not "printing like mad", absolutely no evidence of it. In fact, the Mint concluded 2008 at a 35-year mintage low. All the new money is imaginary money, just like the money the banks are losing.
I'd also like to point out that capitalism without failure is no longer capitalism. |
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mingusdew
Penny Sorter Member
64 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2009 : 16:15:15
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leave it to CNBC to attempt to put a positive spin on this mess:
Why does anyone still listen to MSM financial news? Hasn't CNBC's ignorance already been proven? It's amazing people are still tuning in to their "news" and "analysis." |
If you could kick the person in the pants responsible for most of your trouble, you wouldn't sit for a month.
-Theodore Roosevelt
Fortune favors the informed. |
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mingusdew
Penny Sorter Member
64 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2009 : 17:10:26
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quote:
Originally posted by horgad
The worst of both worlds will be if inflation returns before the economy recovers. It can happen. Image increasing unemployment and rising prices all at the same time. If that happens, the Great Depression will look like a cake walk...
The threat of this happening is likely why many people (myself included) have been putting money in PMs as well as various non-perishable necessities. I have a feeling all the inflationary bailout money people are waiting for will just continue to sit on the sidelines for a while. The banks are expected to loan it to us, but no one is taking any of it thankfully. We're all borrowed out from the last round of investment frauds. The consumer has begun saving again now that many feel betrayed by the old system. My WAG is that if prices do start to rebound, it will be entirely because supplies have been scaled back to meet new (and heavily constrained) demand levels. This may end up looking like the scenario you mentioned (consumer prices going higher despite the economy not having recovered). Which is likely to hit our consumption based GDP reports fairly hard, only making everything worse. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe this is the textbook definition of stagflation.
I also feel as though social forces render it more or less inevitable. Give people money now and many more than before will save it or pay down their credit. People need to consider what this means for our GDP going forward, as compared to the last decade. With the consumer representing 70% of the GDP, it's going to contract no matter what.
It's really anybody's guess though where this economy is heading exactly. And with the mess of deception the media has built, it's no wonder no one has any idea. Days like today seem to really drive that point home, at least from where I sit.
On the subject of oil, watch production levels. If OPEC wants to drive up prices despite the low demand, they may drastically cut production. I'd imagine this could make things look an awful lot like the 70s. |
If you could kick the person in the pants responsible for most of your trouble, you wouldn't sit for a month.
-Theodore Roosevelt
Fortune favors the informed. |
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fb101
Administrator
USA
2856 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2009 : 18:02:45
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quote:
On the subject of oil, watch production levels. If OPEC wants to drive up prices despite the low demand, they may drastically cut production. I'd imagine this could make things look an awful lot like the 70s.
Not going to happen this time. (IMO)
Critical mass was achieved and at this point, higher oil prices mean declining demand in a greater than acceptable ratio. -
If they do, they'll find oil trading at $8 a barrel again. When that happens, they can all but give up on exporting oil (their only source of income) or open the floodgates and allow cheap energy to get the world moving again.
That, however will also be a waste because of the new taxes Obummer is proposing. - As it is, gas will be almost $3.25 a gallon before the end of the year, and that will already cause a drop in demand.
OPEC is done for. They've killed the goose that laid the golden egg. |
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mingusdew
Penny Sorter Member
64 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2009 : 21:12:36
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fb - good point, in a stagflationary economy high oil prices would be a huge motivation for carpooling or public transit (or just not going anywhere to begin with) potentially lowering the bar even further. Practically speaking, production cuts are really only one way for the price of oil to increase as a result of "bailout economics" though. We still have the specters of war, and the Iranian oil bourse gaining a foothold. With these regular bailouts threatening to devalue the bonds and eurodollars held globally, I can't imagine our creditors are too happy. It could get real messy.
With respect to OPEC, I can't even imagine the changes we'd see in global geopolitics if it were to collapse. Without OPEC the major exporters could start their own systems from scratch, pricing oil in any currency of their choosing, including their own. Globally, demand for oil is alive and well - just so long as it's not priced in artificially strong US dollars. The potential implications here are huge.
Interesting times indeed. As much as it upsets me, I can't help but follow the news anymore. This stuff is too important to ignore. Our world is facing the potential for major change as a result of this financial disaster, and the more we ignore it (or worse - we focus on misinformation and/or manipulative party rhetoric) the more likely we are to be left behind. Innovate or die, meanwhile here comes our hopelessly inept government trying to lend us our tax money (at interest, mind you) to fix the economy their greedy and incredulous policy making broke, by... creating more growth through excess debt-backed consumption? These people hold masters degrees, sometimes in economics. How could they possibly not see the fallacy behind these bailouts? The dangers of this are elementary - it's sophomore Econ 101 - and our so called leaders are trying to pretend they know better.
It almost seems like they know it can't work, and are just trying to maintain the status-quo. "We The People" are allowing it to happen by continuing to cling to "Change We Can Believe In!" partisan blankies - simply because it's easier than taking responsibility for the disaster our apathy and naivety helped enable. You should hear the people I work with whenever I talk about these bailouts, or the economy in general. Only in a few cases does it matter that I've been right about everything this past year and a half. To most, I'm still "paranoid" and a "conspiracy theorist." As you may already be aware, the worst are the Obama apologists who make excuses for the fact that SURPRISE!!! now that he's in the White House, it's business as usual throwing porked-up bailouts into the Wall Street fire pit.
BLECH! |
If you could kick the person in the pants responsible for most of your trouble, you wouldn't sit for a month.
-Theodore Roosevelt
Fortune favors the informed. |
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Nickelless
Administrator
USA
5580 Posts |
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Dow is under 6900. Gas needs to follow
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