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scooter
Penny Pincher Member
240 Posts |
 Posted - 02/01/2009 : 12:01:49
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What if you arranged a friend in another state or Canada to help you melt
your copper lincolns.You have your friend list a few tons of Canadien pennies on ebay
as a buy it now auction. You then purchase them as soon as its
on the site. No money is really transfered because its your friend
so paypal gets there fee but now you have proof of a huge copper
purchase thats legal to melt. You then buy some back yard foundry kit
on ebay. Im sure you know whars next...
I in no way way endorse this scam. It wouldnt even be worth it right now, but i also
dont believe thoughts are illegal. This is just a thought. Im sure if the shtf
people will eventually not care and have to get creative. Its better than hurting a fellow human being
if things were to take a horrible down turn.
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misteroman
Administrator
USA
2565 Posts |
Posted - 02/01/2009 : 21:36:58
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| I'm wondering if TSDoesHTF will copper even be worth anything anyways?See the thread I'm going to start. |
Buying CU cents!!!! Paying 1.2 unlimited amounts wanted. Can pick up if near Ohio area. |
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CoinHunter53562
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1805 Posts |
Posted - 02/01/2009 : 21:56:00
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| The thing is if you actually melt copper cents into copper bars (or some other form of copper), who's going to know what the original copper was right? I'm not endorsing breaking the law, but it seems that one could get away with it and there would be no way to prove that the 5 pound copper bar you are holding was once all pre-82 copper cents. |
My hobby: collecting real money 1 copper cent or nickel at a time.
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Kurr
1000+ Penny Miser Member
2906 Posts |
Posted - 02/02/2009 : 07:48:37
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As far as I know, what you describe is not a scam, which includes fraud but a loophole in the law.
As far as I know as an American I can melt canadian pennies and ship not more than $100 per shipment out of the country on trade. Perhaps you arent melting for bullion. Bars are an industrial product. What if I wanted to melt canadian pennies for copper jewelry or some such? Would purity matter then? The value of the product would have gone up due to the form change and labor applied to it, thus increasing the economic factors of production.
And if you REALLY thought it a "scam" why would you both advertise it, and tell how to do it? I have a bag of CA copper I pulled from circulation and some of it was going to go for that exact purpose , one day. |
The silver [is] mine, and the gold [is] mine, saith the LORD of hosts. Hag 2:8 [/b]
He created it. He controls it. He gave it to us for His use. Why did we turn from sound scriptural currency that PROTECTS us?
KJV Bible w/ Strong's Concordance: http://www.blueletterbible.org/
The book of The Hundreds: http://www.land.netonecom.net/tlp/ref/boh/bookOfTheHundreds_v4.1.pdf
The Two Republics: http://www.whitehorsemedia.com/docs/THE_TWO_REPUBLICS.pdf
Good reading: http://ecclesia.org/truth/government.html
A number of people are educated beyond, sometimes way beyond, their intelligence. - Tenbears
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scooter
Penny Pincher Member
240 Posts |
Posted - 02/02/2009 : 10:32:52
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i dont know whats a scam anymore Kurr. Believe it or not the only thing i have ever been arrested and spent a night in Jail for is selling water during a hurricane.
They will bust you for what ever they can.
Ive read another post like this a while back about someones scam idea and this was just a quick thought and post. |
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Somnophore
Penny Pincher Member
United Kingdom
161 Posts |
Posted - 02/02/2009 : 12:26:03
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| Profiteering is illegal and isn't nice too right you spent a night in the cells |
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knibloe
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1066 Posts |
Posted - 02/02/2009 : 17:00:10
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| This gets addressed over and over on the forum. What is the value of melting pennies and turning them into copper bars? None!! In their current form, they are made by a reputable mint and their weight and purity are known. |
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Bluegill
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1964 Posts |
Posted - 02/02/2009 : 17:06:32
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quote:
Originally posted by knibloe
This gets addressed over and over on the forum. What is the value of melting pennies and turning them into copper bars? None!! In their current form, they are made by a reputable mint and their weight and purity are known.
Exactly.
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scooter
Penny Pincher Member
240 Posts |
Posted - 02/02/2009 : 17:09:55
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Profiteering is illegal and isn't nice too right you spent a night in the cells.
wow
first off why the hell did make a stupid comment when you
have no details about this case. I had many people support me. I was even written by some ceo of a large water company telling me it was fine. Many blogs commented on the case since it was in the news paper and TV. Since you have no idea how to write a decent sentence i suggest you dont comment if you have no info and are un informed.
i dont want to get in a heated argument but if you dint know what your talking about keep your mouth shut
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Kurr
1000+ Penny Miser Member
2906 Posts |
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Nickelless
Administrator
USA
5580 Posts |
Posted - 02/02/2009 : 18:42:03
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quote:
Originally posted by CoinHunter53562
The thing is if you actually melt copper cents into copper bars (or some other form of copper), who's going to know what the original copper was right? I'm not endorsing breaking the law, but it seems that one could get away with it and there would be no way to prove that the 5 pound copper bar you are holding was once all pre-82 copper cents.
Exactly the point I was going to make, but you beat me to it.
quote:
Originally posted by scooter
i dont know whats a scam anymore Kurr. Believe it or not the only thing i have ever been arrested and spent a night in Jail for is selling water during a hurricane.
They will bust you for what ever they can.
Ive read another post like this a while back about someones scam idea and this was just a quick thought and post.
I'm very curious, what exactly happened that you were arrested?
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redneck
1000+ Penny Miser Member
1273 Posts |
Posted - 02/02/2009 : 19:21:28
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quote:
Originally posted by CoinHunter53562
The thing is if you actually melt copper cents into copper bars (or some other form of copper), who's going to know what the original copper was right? I'm not endorsing breaking the law, but it seems that one could get away with it and there would be no way to prove that the 5 pound copper bar you are holding was once all pre-82 copper cents.
The short answer is "yes" they can tell if it's made from pre-82 copper cents,by doing a metallurgic test on the bar.There are trace elements added to the copper in a exact percentage by the mint.
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fb101
Administrator
USA
2856 Posts |
Posted - 02/02/2009 : 19:27:28
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| If profiteering were truly illegal, the fed wouldn't exist. |
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barrytrot
Administrator
USA
721 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2009 : 16:41:23
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To the OP: Melting Canadian cents is also illegal, so that cancels that idea.
To the people saying "why melt?": Check out the prices for 1 pound bars on eBay. $10+ all day of the week. Try to get $10 for 145 to 155 CU pennies, NO WAY. That's why melting makes sense. (NOT endorsing it, just saying that there IS a profit in it.) |
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NotABigDeal
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
3890 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2009 : 17:19:00
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quote:
Originally posted by barrytrot
To the OP: Melting Canadian cents is also illegal, so that cancels that idea.
To the people saying "why melt?": Check out the prices for 1 pound bars on eBay. $10+ all day of the week. Try to get $10 for 145 to 155 CU pennies, NO WAY. That's why melting makes sense. (NOT endorsing it, just saying that there IS a profit in it.)
I believe you are incorrect.
Deal |
Live free or die.
Plain and simple.
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your council or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen."
- Samuel Adams |
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natsb88
Administrator
USA
1850 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2009 : 17:29:24
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| Melting Canadian coins in the US is NOT illegal, so far as I have been able to determine. The US laws only concern US coins. |
Nate
The Copper Cave
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barrytrot
Administrator
USA
721 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2009 : 00:38:29
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I stand corrected then. I knew it was illegal in Canada, but apparently if you can get your hoard across the boarder it's fair game.
As I was searching for a definitive answer, I came across this super-hoarding article:
You must be logged in to see this link.
It's probably made the rounds here, but I've never seen it prior to this.
Huge numbers throughout! |
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NiBullionCu
Penny Pincher Member
USA
168 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2009 : 09:36:10
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There are trace elements added to the copper in a exact percentage by the mint.
Do you have a link or cite for this?
Call me a Doubting Thomas on this one.
I know metallurgically you can determine what mining areas the metal may have originated from due to trace elements, but I don't believe the mint is adding trace elements. Especially since the mint does not even produce the blanks for cents any more. Even when they did they occasionally had variations in the alloy. |
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psi
Penny Collector Member
Canada
399 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2009 : 15:51:57
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quote:
Originally posted by natsb88
Melting Canadian coins in the US is NOT illegal, so far as I have been able to determine. The US laws only concern US coins.
I wonder if it could one of those situations where you're technically considered to be violating the other country's laws even though it takes place in your own country. Marc Emery sold cannabis seeds out of canada by mail order and it appears he was charged under american law for selling to americans, even though he conducted his business from canada.
You must be logged in to see this link. |
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Ardent Listener
Administrator
USA
4841 Posts |
Posted - 02/05/2009 : 11:19:50
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quote:
Originally posted by misteroman
I'm wondering if TSDoesHTF will copper even be worth anything anyways?See the thread I'm going to start.
I have to find that thread, but I'm pressed for time right now. Copper has been money though out history right along with gold and silver. I'm my opinon it would be much better in a SHTF situation to have that copper in the form of a penny then to have had melted it. Yes, industrial demand may decrease for copper but demand for copper as a money would increase. |
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Think positive. |
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redneck
1000+ Penny Miser Member
1273 Posts |
Posted - 02/06/2009 : 02:12:48
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quote:
Originally posted by NiBullionCu
There are trace elements added to the copper in a exact percentage by the mint.
Do you have a link or cite for this?
Call me a Doubting Thomas on this one.
I know metallurgically you can determine what mining areas the metal may have originated from due to trace elements, but I don't believe the mint is adding trace elements. Especially since the mint does not even produce the blanks for cents any more. Even when they did they occasionally had variations in the alloy.
You must be logged in to see this link.
Penny Composition
Composition
1864 to 1942 3.11 g 19 mm 95.0% Copper and 5.0% Zinc & Tin (bronze mix)
1943 2.70 g 19 mm Steel with Zinc coating
1944 to 1946 3.11 g 19 mm 95.0% Copper and 5.0% Zinc & Tin (bronze mix)
but made from cartridge casings and slightly off color
1947-1962 3.11 g 19 mm 95.0% Copper and 5.0% Zinc & Tin (bronze mix)
1963-1982 3.11 g 19 mm 95.0% Cu and 5.0% Zinc
1983-2002 2.50 g 19 mm 97.5% Zinc and 2.5% Copper (20% lighter)
I should have said composition instead of trace.However, like you said.
quote:
I know metallurgically you can determine what mining areas the metal may have originated from due to trace elements
I think you answered your own question.
Do any of us actually want to try and defend ourselves against the governments unlimited resources ?
I wouldn't do it.
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jadedragon
Administrator
Canada
3788 Posts |
Posted - 02/09/2009 : 08:36:01
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IMO melting US copper pennies in Canada is fair game. However exporting them in quantity is problimatic as that is illegal. I however, have plenty of US pennies collected from Canadian circulation if I wanted to make a few bars.
IMO melting Canadian coins in the US is perfectly legal and fair game, and as far as I know there is no law prohibiting exporting Canadian coin. Now I would think that it would be better for an American to melt then a Canadian.
That said, I'm not melting anything. I know exactly what I have with my pennies - bars... who knows.
As for the bars priced way over melt - they are not investment items but novalty items to me. If you want to invest in copper you can buy large blocks at spot on the market, or buy pennies as bullion. Bars just look sweet. |
“The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” – George Bernard Shaw.
Why Copper Bullion ~~~ Interview with Silver Bullion Producer Market Harmony
Passive Income blog |
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melting ban scam,..dont do it
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