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deleted
479 Posts |
 Posted - 02/11/2007 : 09:44:32
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On a different part of this site, the qwestion was asked?
"what about the liquidity of copper bullion bars?"
I don't know, but they may wind up being more liquid than pennies if a melt ban continues.
However, they are not as cheap to buy.
The whole point about hoarding pennies is that we can buy them for face value, which is less than melt value.
That cannot be said for copper bullion in bars or rods.
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"Financially, the US economy has degenerated into a sort of cargo cult, where people feel that they can continue to attract recycled petrodollars by dancing around piles of internet servers with their cell phones and their laptops."
-Dmitry Orlov
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tmaring
Penny Collector Member
USA
302 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2007 : 11:34:53
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Agreed! Copper "bullion" in the form of smelter ingots tends to run three to ten times the copper spot price because collectors enjoy the ingots and the markings. I have created bullion coins and bars of copper, but the retail price is admittedly many times the price of the metal. For instance... I did a run of one kilogram bars. I bought C-110 mill stock (.997 pure) that was 2 inches wide and 1/2 inch thick. A seven inch long piece of that weighs just a bit over one kilogram. But you cannot buy mill stock at spot! I had to pay ten dollars a pound for the stock. So there was about $22 in the metal. Then there was shipping to get it. Then the sawing of the bars, sanding the rough corners, and pressing the design into them. By the time I was done I was up to selling a bar wholesale to dealers for $50 that contained less than $10 worth of metal at spot! I mean, they're fun and all, and make a great paperweight... but as far as investing in bullion, pennies at face is best! Put up in 50c rolls or $50 face bags they are admittedly heavy, but simple to use as currency.
Any bars or rods of copper that can be purchased at or near scrap price can be considered like "bullion" whether or not they are marked. (and marking is easy) Copper is a bit different than other commodity metals as its market is based on its uses... mostly wiring and plumbing. So for instance... a 250 foot coil of 12-2 WG standard household electrical wire can be considered "copper bullion" and would be VERY liquid at high copper prices. A fresh clean coil of 1/4" i.d. copper tubing, as used for much indoor plumbing is also very liquid in the market. Purchasing such commodities at a low point in the copper price curve would make a lot of sense as an investment whether or not you actually use these commodities in your business. |
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Ridewithme38
Penny Sorter Member
USA
79 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2007 : 12:10:23
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The bullion copper bar i have i bought from Ebay a long time ago...honestly can't remember how much it cost it was so long ago...i didn't so much buy it for the value but fun factor...i also bought a 75 gram 999 bullion bar of aluminum at the same time(Same size bar)...I liked the company i bought it from they shipped quick
here's a link to another one of there auctions
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They also have pure nickel bars..
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RUNNING TOTAL:
527 Copper
10 wheat
7 canadian
and a 250gram .999 pure copper bar(Jetco USA) |
Edited by - Ridewithme38 on 02/11/2007 12:14:38 |
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DadaOrwell
Penny Sorter Member
99 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2007 : 16:28:26
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I composed the note below before seeing yours above...
anyway it is practically the same note!
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ok this is cool
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an ebay seller melts copper, nickel and lead into bullion himself apparently. all 15 or so of his items for sale appear to have gone fast - but not at bullion pricing. He's consistently getting about 1000% of their melt value after the bidding is over with. He puts his "jetco" brand name on the bars and a serial number. Apparently he's got a near corner on the market right now...but with that kind of markup over spot expect competition eventually
Want freedom?
Move to New Hampshire!
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n/a
deleted
479 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2007 : 19:48:56
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DadaOrwell:
Sorry to post off topic, but I find your name to be very interesting and clever.
Is the first half a reference to a father, as in "papaOrwell"
OR
Is it a reference to dadaism?
You must be logged in to see this link.
Or something else?
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"Financially, the US economy has degenerated into a sort of cargo cult, where people feel that they can continue to attract recycled petrodollars by dancing around piles of internet servers with their cell phones and their laptops."
-Dmitry Orlov |
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DadaOrwell
Penny Sorter Member
99 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2007 : 19:59:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Atheist
DadaOrwell:
Sorry to post off topic, but I find your name to be very interesting and clever.
Is the first half a reference to a father, as in "papaOrwell"
OR
Is it a reference to dadaism?
You must be logged in to see this link.
Or something else?
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thanks...it's sort of a stage name turned pen name. dada after the wierd salvador dali type films....orwell after the concept of orwellian government. I used to do music that sort of combined the two themes.
Want freedom?
Move to New Hampshire!
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n/a
deleted
479 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2007 : 20:16:47
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dadaism is kinda sorta maybe Orwellian.
DoubleThink fits right in with the anti-anti-ism of the Dadaists.
Thanks for responding,
Appologies to the thread for posting off topic.
On the topic of copper bullion, I agree with tmaring above that buying lumps is not as liqwid as buying copper pipes, fittings, wires, etc. You know, finished usable products.
I consider coins to be finished usable products, bars and ingots are a pure bullion play.
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"Financially, the US economy has degenerated into a sort of cargo cult, where people feel that they can continue to attract recycled petrodollars by dancing around piles of internet servers with their cell phones and their laptops."
-Dmitry Orlov |
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Metalophile
Penny Collector Member
USA
320 Posts |
Posted - 02/12/2007 : 00:58:27
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I wonder whether there are any futures copper markets where you can demand delivery that won't cost an arm or a leg?
Metalophile |
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Ardent Listener
Administrator
USA
4841 Posts |
Posted - 02/12/2007 : 11:17:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Metalophile
I wonder whether there are any futures copper markets where you can demand delivery that won't cost an arm or a leg?
Metalophile
I'm sure it can be done but the size of such contracts would discourage most investors who would want to hold on to the physical copper. Maybe if a few got together on one. Then you would have to find a market when you wanted to sell other than a scrap dealer. Maybe you could find other physical copper investors and break-down the contract into even smaller units for a profit. E-bay?
The big problem in selling large bullion bars of copper is the shipping costs involved. Expensive to ship a bar Fed-X or UPS. If you sold only local you might flood your local market with copper bars in a hurry. But if you went in on a contract with others from different areas it would help to solve that problem.
I still wonder though if it would just not be better to buy copper pipe or wire often used in construction if and when you can find it cheaper when copper is lower. Bars are great, but have a much more limited market than the finished copper product.
I always jsut come back to the copper penny as a low risk way of playing the copper market.
Just my thoughts on the subject guys and maybe some gals out there. 
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Burn paper dollars before you melt coins. |
Edited by - Ardent Listener on 02/12/2007 11:20:25 |
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tmaring
Penny Collector Member
USA
302 Posts |
Posted - 02/12/2007 : 22:49:36
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| On shipping of physical copper. Some of us have taken to using the USPS flat-rate priority mail boxes. The squarish box can be filled nearly to the top with copper coins, slugs, or bars and still come in under the 70 pound limit. It can be sent anywhere in the US for $8.10 .. just remember to use plenty of tape on the corners... an extra layer of cardboard inside also helps keep the box from bursting. But you can ship about $200 worth of copper for about eight bucks this way... or just about four percent of the value of the metal. That's pretty cheap! The only drawback is that there are just two standard box sizes, and anything that won't fit them can't be sent that way. But if you can work within the size limits... it's the best shipping deal going! |
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Ryedale
Administrator
USA
523 Posts |
Posted - 02/12/2007 : 23:53:25
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quote:
Originally posted by tmaring
On shipping of physical copper. Some of us have taken to using the USPS flat-rate priority mail boxes. The squarish box can be filled nearly to the top with copper coins, slugs, or bars and still come in under the 70 pound limit. It can be sent anywhere in the US for $8.10 .. just remember to use plenty of tape on the corners... an extra layer of cardboard inside also helps keep the box from bursting. But you can ship about $200 worth of copper for about eight bucks this way... or just about four percent of the value of the metal. That's pretty cheap! The only drawback is that there are just two standard box sizes, and anything that won't fit them can't be sent that way. But if you can work within the size limits... it's the best shipping deal going!
How many coins were you able to fit in the box? this sounds like a great way to ship. Do you get funny looks at the post office (like they might go "postal" on you?).
Ryedale
Hoard Copper Pennies,
The market will develop |
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n/a
deleted
479 Posts |
Posted - 02/13/2007 : 00:06:18
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You must be logged in to see this link.
Paul Craig Roberts urges people to
DUMP DOLLARS!
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"Financially, the US economy has degenerated into a sort of cargo cult, where people feel that they can continue to attract recycled petrodollars by dancing around piles of internet servers with their cell phones and their laptops."
-Dmitry Orlov |
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tmaring
Penny Collector Member
USA
302 Posts |
Posted - 02/13/2007 : 18:25:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Ryedale
How many coins were you able to fit in the box? this sounds like a great way to ship. Do you get funny looks at the post office (like they might go "postal" on you?).
It's easy to ship one full "bag" of copper pennies... 5000 coins which weighs about 34 pounds. Two bags would just barely fit in a box, but you'd be awfully close to the 70 pound weight limit once you used enough tape to hold the box together. It's a real hassle to have to repack it just because you went two ounces over!! (I have done that) About 60 pounds of coins or bars is pretty easy to do though. That would be about 9000 copper pennies. Usually it's been slugs and punchouts that I buy at a margin over scrap price from manufacturers of copper fixtures. (see buy and sell forum) The postman delivering just drops it on the porch without comment. They do look at me a bit funny at the PO when I'm shipping one of these. The scuttlebutt around the post office was that the flat-rate box was a bid to get some parcel shipping away from UPS and FEDEX and one of these days they'll discontinue the practice. Most folks of course don't get anywhere near the weight limit on these. The clerks are wryly amused at those of us actually using the flat rate close to capacity! It would be tough to get those boxes up to such a weight with anything less dense than copper! |
Edited by - tmaring on 02/13/2007 18:33:02 |
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Ryedale
Administrator
USA
523 Posts |
 Posted - 02/13/2007 : 23:03:33
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Thanks Tmaring,
I appreciate your posts. This is as Atheist says, "a great place to learn from!"
It seems our click or nitche is so small we do not get too many other kinds of KooKS around here. I think as a group, we can safely call ourselves "Monetary Realists". I was searching for articles or posts about hoarding pennies, and came across a write up and that is a term by the author. I will post the link if I can find it again.
Thanks again Ryedale
Ryedale
Hoard Copper Pennies,
The market will develop |
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Ardent Listener
Administrator
USA
4841 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2007 : 10:03:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Ryedale
Thanks Tmaring,
I appreciate your posts. This is as Atheist says, "a great place to learn from!"
It seems our click or nitche is so small we do not get too many other kinds of KooKS around here. I think as a group, we can safely call ourselves "Monetary Realists". I was searching for articles or posts about hoarding pennies, and came across a write up and that is a term by the author. I will post the link if I can find it again.
Thanks again Ryedale
Ryedale
Hoard Copper Pennies,
The market will develop
That's correct Ryedale. I go to a few other survival/hard money sites, but what I like about this one is that we have a lot of posts that contain information that is more relevant for the common guy out there.
Though most of the other sites discuss hoarding copper pennies/nickels, I'm always amazed how many people still dont have a clue as to why one should do so.
Base metals and coin hoarding are sometimes frowned  upon by some people at those sites. Seems one must pay a preminum on coins before some people can see an investment opportunity in them. We will be the ones to set that preminum in the future.
Lower base metal prices and the melting ban seems to be giving us more time to add to our hoards. IMO, I don't think either will last for very long.
________________________
Burn paper dollars before you melt coins. |
Edited by - Ardent Listener on 02/14/2007 10:06:39 |
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pencilvanian
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
2209 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2007 : 16:54:35
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"Monetary Realists" is a good name for those who share their common sense while hoarding common cents  |
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Copper Bullion?
Forum Locked
