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n/a
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479 Posts |
 Posted - 11/12/2006 : 21:57:55
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I recently purchased a metal cutting bandsaw (grizzly.com) for $250. I also purchased several bars of "scrap" copper that I paid $5 per pound for. I have about 10 linear feet of 1.5 inch diameter copper rod and about 20 linear feet of 1.25 inch copper rod. This copper is pure (99.9%). I can easily get a lot more of the 1.25 inch diameter copper rods.
My qwestion is
If I cut the rod into slugs the size of coins, should I cut it into "coins" that are;
1 troy ounce each,
2 troy ounces each,
25 grams each,
50 grams each,
100 grams each
???
A more basic qwestion is,
Should I create units of grams OR units of troy?
Thanks to you all for your advice!
Jasper in Berkeley, CA, USA
A billiard ball dropped from 1,362 feet (height of the South Tower) in a
vacuum would require 9.22 seconds to hit the ground. How then did the
towers collapse in 10 seconds and 11.4 seconds, and why has not one
member of the mainstream media insisted on honest answers from the
government in this regard?
"The individual is handicapped by coming face to face with a conspiracy
so monstrous [that] he cannot believe it exists."
- J. Edgar Hoover
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n/a
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479 Posts |
 Posted - 11/12/2006 : 23:07:14
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Hey guys, I'm noticing people reading my post, but no one hqas yet tried to answer my basic qwestion.
I really would like some informed opinion, PLEASE!
Would you "create coins" based on grams OR troy ounces?
I really DEEPLY and genuinely appreciate your input.
Thank You.
A billiard ball dropped from 1,362 feet (height of the South Tower) in a
vacuum would require 9.22 seconds to hit the ground. How then did the
towers collapse in 10 seconds and 11.4 seconds, and why has not one
member of the mainstream media insisted on honest answers from the
government in this regard?
"The individual is handicapped by coming face to face with a conspiracy
so monstrous [that] he cannot believe it exists."
- J. Edgar Hoover |
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n/a
deleted
73 Posts |
Posted - 11/13/2006 : 06:24:05
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I'll help you out. I don't know if the "read" counter counts non-registered users so could be it was read by people who couldn't reply. I also just read this, then I clicked the browse backwards button, then clicked on this topic, then repeated that several times and the counter went up by about 4, so the read counter definitely is not a number of different people who have read it but a simple accomeulation of reads I could make it say it had been read 50 times in about 2 minutes but only one person actually read it.
Ok, so as to your actual question rather than me reverse engineering the forum.
The weights of US coins are stated in grams, at least the one's in circulation, I don't know what they state the bullion coins in. So I guess I'd go with grams. I guess the main thing is are you stamping them with a design or just cutting up bars? If stamping into a coin you would want to go with whatever weight of a coin is formed when a 1.25 inch diameter slug is stamped such that it is a similar diameter to width ratio that people are used to seeing as coins. Who wants a fat or skinny coin?
Looks like a half dollar is almost exactly within 1 mm 1.25 inches in diameter so you're probably going to end up with a 10 to 12 gram coin if the intention is to make a coin with similar aesthetics to circulated coins.
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Edited by - n/a on 11/13/2006 06:26:16 |
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Metalophile
Penny Collector Member
USA
320 Posts |
Posted - 11/13/2006 : 09:04:51
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Actually, I think US coins were originally in grains. I think in the US copper usually trades by the pound, so I would think that if you made your pieces to be in units of ounces or fractions of ounces, or some fraction of a pound . . .
For example, 1/20th of a pound would be about 22.7 grams, and your piece would be a little smaller than a silver dollar.
I would stay away from troy ounces and pounds since copper isn't considered a precious metal (yet).
Metric wouldn't be too bad, either, since everyone should understand those units also.
Metalophile |
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132 Posts |
Posted - 11/13/2006 : 09:06:58
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More than likely you are going to be doing this as an investment.
So i would say 1oz. Something like the size of a silver eagle
and you could package them in " coin tubes "
Get a metal hand stamping set of #'s and letters.
Stamp something like 1oz copper round or liberty round-1oz 999 fine copper that would be kinda neat.....
Take your time and come up with something good.
I bought a couple bars from this guy he does really good work.
You must be logged in to see this link.
High price but they look neat next to my 10oz silver bars.
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479 Posts |
Posted - 11/13/2006 : 09:25:53
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Thanks for all of your input.
I can understand the arguements for troy, fractions of a pound, and grams.
That is why I'm confused.
Pre-82 makes a good point that this is probably an investment. Probably multi-generational. Or prehaps if TSHF these will be useful. I've looked into stamping, too. This would complete the process, but cost a lot.
If anyone is interested in seeing a stamping machine, here's one.
You must be logged in to see this link.
You must be logged in to see this link.
Thanks again for all advice!
A billiard ball dropped from 1,362 feet (height of the South Tower) in a
vacuum would require 9.22 seconds to hit the ground. How then did the
towers collapse in 10 seconds and 11.4 seconds, and why has not one
member of the mainstream media insisted on honest answers from the
government in this regard?
"The individual is handicapped by coming face to face with a conspiracy
so monstrous [that] he cannot believe it exists."
- J. Edgar Hoover |
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n/a
deleted
132 Posts |
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n/a
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479 Posts |
Posted - 11/13/2006 : 20:18:45
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Thanks 82
I've considered going this route.
On the one hand, I want to make these as beautiful as possible.
On the other hand, I don't want to put an hours' labor into a coin or two.
In other words, I'd sure like to have my cake and eat it too.
If I strike each coin once from both the top and bottom with 10 tons of force, I will be one with that coin.
If I strike each coin with a handheld hammer and die like you suggested, I will have to spend qwite a lot of time on each coin and then wind up with coins that are not very asthethic.
If I simply do nothing to the coins, I will have to explain them ad nauseum.
There is no easy answer, is there?
After thing for a day, do you think that fractions of a pound, or grams, or troy ounces would be the best size / weight?
Thank You very much for your thoughtful responses!!
A billiard ball dropped from 1,362 feet (height of the South Tower) in a
vacuum would require 9.22 seconds to hit the ground. How then did the
towers collapse in 10 seconds and 11.4 seconds, and why has not one
member of the mainstream media insisted on honest answers from the
government in this regard?
"The individual is handicapped by coming face to face with a conspiracy
so monstrous [that] he cannot believe it exists."
- J. Edgar Hoover |
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Canadian_Nickle
Penny Hoarding Member
Canada
938 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2006 : 17:13:02
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| Troy ounces. Grams are for pu$$y frenchmen. |
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n/a
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132 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2006 : 20:36:41
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| Yeah ounces....because it would be easily figured for pound or half pound and so forth but still easy transported. |
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n/a
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479 Posts |
Posted - 11/16/2006 : 15:58:07
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Thanks guys!!
I already started down the path of making ounces, but I wanted to hear from people who are interested and care whether or not that was a good idea.
I am making the "coins" about 34 grams each, well over a troy ounce. When I give them away, I tell people that I am giving them, "a troy ounce or better, or 99.9% or better pure copper"
I always use that exact phrase.
Does anyone here have any interest in or knowledge of LETS systems?
You must be logged in to see this link.
Peace!
A billiard ball dropped from 1,362 feet (height of the South Tower) in a
vacuum would require 9.22 seconds to hit the ground. How then did the
towers collapse in 10 seconds and 11.4 seconds, and why has not one
member of the mainstream media insisted on honest answers from the
government in this regard?
"The individual is handicapped by coming face to face with a conspiracy
so monstrous [that] he cannot believe it exists."
- J. Edgar Hoover |
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n/a
deleted
103 Posts |
 Posted - 11/16/2006 : 17:04:13
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Atheits,
Please don't take this the wrong way, but no matter how you cute the mustard its still only scrap copper.....just bite size. Not unless you put your "Mark" of purity on it.
*****************
The above post is intended for entertainment purposes only and in no way reflect the opinions of the flesh and blood person writing the text. All writings under the screen name "copperhead" are merely a characterization of the personna created. |
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132 Posts |
Posted - 11/16/2006 : 17:20:38
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quote:
When I give them away, I tell people that I am giving them, "a troy ounce or better, or 99.9% or better pure copper"
Your giving them away !!! What about us 
Buddy OL Pal OL Friend of Mine ! 
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n/a
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479 Posts |
Posted - 11/16/2006 : 19:25:42
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No worries copperhead, I have thick skin, especially online.
I agree that copper is most certainly NOT a precious metal, yet.
Do you have any interests in LETS?
You must be logged in to see this link.
pre82, if you were here in person, I most certainly would give you ONE.
I am trying to kick start a market in metal in my adopted town of Berkeley, CA.
Talk is cheap, when I give someone a tangible object, they put it in their pocket and remember what I've told them later when they pull it out and put it on their dresser before bed.
any interests in LETS?
A billiard ball dropped from 1,362 feet (height of the South Tower) in a
vacuum would require 9.22 seconds to hit the ground. How then did the
towers collapse in 10 seconds and 11.4 seconds, and why has not one
member of the mainstream media insisted on honest answers from the
government in this regard?
"The individual is handicapped by coming face to face with a conspiracy
so monstrous [that] he cannot believe it exists."
- J. Edgar Hoover |
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n/a
deleted
73 Posts |
Posted - 11/17/2006 : 01:41:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Atheist
If anyone is interested in seeing a stamping machine, here's one.
You must be logged in to see this link.
You must be logged in to see this link.
Thanks again for all advice!
I'd love to make my own coins, the stamping machine is simple enough, I knew it took 40 tons from reading the US Mint's website so I was thinking 40 ton hydrolic jack, but that's pricy and it'd be a slow strike, not a quick one. Can't believe I didn't think of doing it like in the above link.
Only hurdle is the actual design of the coin, unless I'm missing something making a die of high quality would be really hard. I belive to get good quality you'd need a large sculpted die that is reduced to a smaller sculped die. The only way I know how to do that is by using a pantograph which is probably cost prohibitive. |
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Metalophile
Penny Collector Member
USA
320 Posts |
Posted - 11/17/2006 : 08:57:42
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I understand wanting to use troy oz. in anticipation of Cu becoming a precious metal, however in the US Comex exchange prices are quoted in dollars per pound. So if someone wanted to figure out the spot value of your piece, they'd have to do some unit conversions from troy oz. to lbs. Granted this is easy with the internet. Maybe you'll want to stamp both troy and Avoirdupois oz. weights on your pieces.
Metalophile |
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479 Posts |
Posted - 11/17/2006 : 09:20:58
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Indeed stamping is the next step.
Ever heard, "cleanliness is next to godliness?" Well, in my lazier moments when I feel like going to bed without washing the evening's dishes, I shorten that saying to, "Cleanliness is next." Meaning I'll get to that, yeah, I promise. ...
Actually The quicksilver mint You must be logged in to see this link. says that they custom make dies from hardened steel. I've contacted them and the lady who answered the phone was very pleasant. She gave me the number of the actual die maker. I've called him twice, but no answer back from him yet.
Metalphile:
Your idea of using fractions of a pound makes a lot of sense!
There are 453.6 grams in one Avoidupous pound.
I'm making "coins" that are about 34 grams (so far)
453.6 / 34 = 13.34
so each of these is about one 13.3 of a pound
How do you pronounce that!?!
If I get a die made, I currently think that I will include the weight in grams (34) and in troy ounces "one troy ounce or better"
Since I don't need to put any buildings or busts on the dies, I could have an obverse dedicated to the element copper and a reverse dedicated to weights and measures.
Peace!
A billiard ball dropped from 1,362 feet (height of the South Tower) in a
vacuum would require 9.22 seconds to hit the ground. How then did the
towers collapse in 10 seconds and 11.4 seconds, and why has not one
member of the mainstream media insisted on honest answers from the
government in this regard?
"The individual is handicapped by coming face to face with a conspiracy
so monstrous [that] he cannot believe it exists."
- J. Edgar Hoover |
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n/a
deleted
26 Posts |
Posted - 11/19/2006 : 09:55:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Atheist
Thanks guys!!
I already started down the path of making ounces, but I wanted to hear from people who are interested and care whether or not that was a good idea.
I am making the "coins" about 34 grams each, well over a troy ounce. When I give them away, I tell people that I am giving them, "a troy ounce or better, or 99.9% or better pure copper"
Awesome idea!
I own a restaurant and have 3 years experience with You must be logged in to see this link. and IMO using OUNCEs is far and away the best for LOCAL ACCEPTANCE. people understand that size and it's similar to a silver dollar.
IF you were just holding it waiting for comex or some other impossible odd thing, use pounds or fractions thereof.
I'd love to have some when you get prototypes!
Come spend them here please You must be logged in to see this link.
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479 Posts |
Posted - 11/19/2006 : 17:49:17
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Hi Dave
Thank you for the invitation to spend real money at your place of business.
If I lived within a hundred miles I drive over to shake your hand.
I live in California, I love it here, but I love Louisiana, Washington State, etc. I assume I would love Michigan, too.
Peace unto you and yours!
A billiard ball dropped from 1,362 feet (height of the South Tower) in a
vacuum would require 9.22 seconds to hit the ground. How then did the
towers collapse in 10 seconds and 11.4 seconds, and why has not one
member of the mainstream media insisted on honest answers from the
government in this regard?
"The individual is handicapped by coming face to face with a conspiracy
so monstrous [that] he cannot believe it exists."
- J. Edgar Hoover |
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n/a
deleted
17 Posts |
 Posted - 11/24/2006 : 23:53:02
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| Go with grams, most of the world uses and understands grams. Only the US still uses ounces. The interasting thing is that many places around the world make ounce coins to meet the needs of US consumers. |
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n/a
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478 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2006 : 00:35:13
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You'd be better off contacting your local Stamping Press or Tool and Die outfit and arranging for them to make bars for you. 1 lb bars with a nice logo would be a good start. A basic design could be made in short order. I used to work in the stamping press industry and copper is easy to work with. Startup costs would be sort of high but after you get it back, it's all gravy. Nobody wants a saw cut bar of copper at a premium price. Many will buy a nice logo stamped and weight marked bar.
Just my opinion. |
Edited by - n/a on 12/09/2006 00:40:13 |
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479 Posts |
Posted - 01/06/2007 : 20:53:36
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After a hiatus caused by confusion I've regained momentum in the copper slug project.
I have settle upon and bugun the production of "coins" that are as close as possible to 33.3 grams.
)33.5 grams is my ideal target weight.)
Obviously, 3 of these are 100 grams.
Why 33.3 grams?
One troy ounce is 31+ Grams.
A 33.3 gram coin qwalifiies as a troy ounce.
(anyone who gets 33.3 grams but only "paid for" 31.+ grams will not be angry)
A qwantity of 30 of these 33.3 gram "coins" is eqwivalent to one kilogram.
Three of these slugs is eqwal to one decigram.
I believe it is correct to say that 66 of these objects is eqwal to one kilogram and that 13.62 of these is eqwal to one "pound".
As of this writing, January 6, 2007, the kitco price of "high grade" copper is $2.50 per pound.
2.5 / 13.62 = 18.3 cents
I have invested thus far qwite a lot more than 18.3 cents per "coin".
So far, this is a losing proposition!
I am proceeding apace despite the uncertainties.
.................................................
A billiard ball dropped from 1,362 feet (height of the South Tower) in a
vacuum would require 9.22 seconds to hit the ground. How then did the
towers collapse in 10 seconds and 11.4 seconds, and why has not one
member of the mainstream media insisted on honest answers from the
government in this regard?
"The individual is handicapped by coming face to face with a conspiracy
so monstrous [that] he cannot believe it exists."
- J. Edgar Hoover |
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tmaring
Penny Collector Member
USA
302 Posts |
Posted - 01/10/2007 : 10:36:45
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Hi Atheist:
I make coins for a living... so maybe I can help. Most of what I make are fantasy coins, related to mythical or fiction places like Middle Earth or Camelot etc. My business is called Shire Post Mint and can easily be googled up. Recently I've delved into making copper bullion! Right now I have two pieces... one is a heavy coin which is denominated as one troy ounce. (It actually weighs a bit more... about 36 grams) I have chosen a design honoring a miner of the Copper Country... the mining district of Northern Michigan. The blanks were punched from 1/4" thick flat bar and pressed under 150 tons. The other is a heavy rectangular bar weighing one kilogram. These were cut from 1/2" x 2" bar and pressed with the design under 300 tons. I'm not sure about posting pictures... so we'll see if the photos I've tried to paste in below show up. Basically I like using troy ounces because it gives the impression of copper as a "precious" metal... which is kinda cool. Kilograms probably make more sense from a practical standpoint though. The kilo bar makes a great book-weight for holding the pages of a book out flat while you're reading at a table.
I think that trying to band-saw slices off a round bar is a tough way to go... it's difficult to make them very precise and get a good finish... but maybe that's not too important. Copper is very hard on bandsaw blades... they tend to load up quickly.
Tom Maringer
Shire Post Mint
Springdale, Arkansas |
Edited by - tmaring on 01/10/2007 10:44:02 |
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n/a
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479 Posts |
Posted - 01/10/2007 : 19:02:57
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Hello!
I bought a troy ounce coin from you via email order a few months back.
You were kind enough to include a free gift coin of Bibo Baggins with a rose.
Thank you!
You are right about sawing.
It is:
1. inaccurate,
2, time consuming,
3. hard on blades.
The "coins" or blanks or slugs that I make are only sometimes nice looking.
Often they look rough.
So far I have given away every one I've made.
I've made over a hundred, perhaps 120.
I checked into buying a press, but it looks like a decent one cost $15,000.
Thanks for your time, and thanks for your willingness to share your knowledge!
Jasper in Berkeley, CA
.................................................
A billiard ball dropped from 1,362 feet (height of the South Tower) in a
vacuum would require 9.22 seconds to hit the ground. How then did the
towers collapse in 10 seconds and 11.4 seconds, and why has not one
member of the mainstream media insisted on honest answers from the
government in this regard?
"The individual is handicapped by coming face to face with a conspiracy
so monstrous [that] he cannot believe it exists."
- J. Edgar Hoover |
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tmaring
Penny Collector Member
USA
302 Posts |
Posted - 01/10/2007 : 19:27:32
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Glad you are enjoying the bullion coin! I had no idea...
On the presses... I think you must be looking in the wrong place for a press... or else your standards are too high. I have eight presses and even the largest cost less than a third of that... even if you include shipping and set-up. Deals come up fairly frequently if you look in the right places. I have seen several being auctioned in California in the last year or so. Keep searching eBay on terms: Fly press, screw press, knuckle press, drop hammer, coining press, and hobbing press. If that doesn't work perhaps I can press some for you.
Tom Maringer
Shire Post Mint
Springdale, Arkansas |
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Ardent Listener
Administrator
USA
4841 Posts |
 Posted - 01/10/2007 : 19:36:57
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quote:
Originally posted by tmaring
Hi Atheist:
I make coins for a living... so maybe I can help. Most of what I make are fantasy coins, related to mythical or fiction places like Middle Earth or Camelot etc. My business is called Shire Post Mint and can easily be googled up. Recently I've delved into making copper bullion! Right now I have two pieces... one is a heavy coin which is denominated as one troy ounce. (It actually weighs a bit more... about 36 grams) I have chosen a design honoring a miner of the Copper Country... the mining district of Northern Michigan. The blanks were punched from 1/4" thick flat bar and pressed under 150 tons. The other is a heavy rectangular bar weighing one kilogram. These were cut from 1/2" x 2" bar and pressed with the design under 300 tons. I'm not sure about posting pictures... so we'll see if the photos I've tried to paste in below show up. Basically I like using troy ounces because it gives the impression of copper as a "precious" metal... which is kinda cool. Kilograms probably make more sense from a practical standpoint though. The kilo bar makes a great book-weight for holding the pages of a book out flat while you're reading at a table.
I think that trying to band-saw slices off a round bar is a tough way to go... it's difficult to make them very precise and get a good finish... but maybe that's not too important. Copper is very hard on bandsaw blades... they tend to load up quickly.
Tom Maringer
Shire Post Mint
Springdale, Arkansas
Welcome.
Feel free to post information as to how we can buy from you on the Buy, Sell, Trade forum.
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Burn paper dollars before you melt coins. |
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creating copper blanks or slugs
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