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Ridewithme38
Penny Sorter Member
USA
79 Posts |
 Posted - 02/08/2007 : 01:02:03
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Ok...so were all predicting that either the government will pull the penny from circulation or start reminting new pennys(Cents) and nickels with no copper...
My Question is....If the government stops using copper in the money wouldn't the Supply of copper go up(what ever amount there using to mint the coins would be available for other things) and that in turn would cause the value of copper to go down??
One more Newbie Question..
When the government changed the quarter and dime from silver to clad in '64 was this pre or post the value of silver going up?
I would think that if the value was going to stay up the government in there infinite knowledge would have change the nickel a long time ago(I know they changed the penny(Cent) already)
This leads me to believe that the government see's this as a temporary thing..if they thought prices would stay up...they would have seen it years before us and taken steps already, Right? Don't some of the greatest economic minds work for our government or am i giving them too much credit?
Just some Newbie Questions...
Umm one more...
Do you think its worth it to sort through pocket change for pre '82 pennies(Cents)? I've sorted through my pocket change and the lose change jars around the house and MAYBE have 300 pre '82 cents..is it even worth it for the average guy who will never buy a box or a roll..
Small amounts of change going to matter in the long run?
Long live the idiots at the Mint!
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Frugi
Administrator
USA
627 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2007 : 01:57:59
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The amount of copper used in todays coinage (lincon memorial cents) is only 2.5%, the rest is zinc. The reason prices are what they are is because of the economic boom in China (china's economy at it's current rate of growth will surpass our economy by 2040). All of Our copper plated pennies ever made since 1982 are just a drop in the bucket compared to all the construction that happens during one summer of one year in China.
It's not that the value of silver was increasing it has never changed it was silver 5000 years ago it is silver today. The value of the dollar was decreasing, so it made the cost of silver go up in relation to the dollar. The value of silver was being dropped as a coinage all over the world. Silver hit it big around 1980 at about $50.00 an ounce, so what it was in 1964 was about $1.15 an ounce ( there is about one ounce of pure silver in $1.00 worth of 1964 coinage ).
Values of metal especially base metals are lower generally in the winter and much higher in the summer when lots of construction is going on.
As far as sorting most of us do it for enjoyment rather than an investment. Do what makes you happy. I sort at least a few thousand a week and love it.
Welcome to the forum.
Real Eyes Realize Real Lies
Buy Less. Work Less. Live More.
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pencilvanian
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
2209 Posts |
Posted - 02/09/2007 : 20:24:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Ridewithme38
I would think that if the value was going to stay up the government in there infinite knowledge would have change the nickel a long time ago(I know they changed the penny(Cent) already)
This leads me to believe that the government see's this as a temporary thing..if they thought prices would stay up...they would have seen it years before us and taken steps already, Right? Don't some of the greatest economic minds work for our government or am i giving them too much credit?
I think that we all are giving the government too much credit on everything. The mint has turned out nickel 5¢ coins since the 1866 since putting nickel in our coins was a political payback for the owners of the nickel mines who wanted a use for their metal. No one ten years ago would have guessed that nickel would ever reach such prices due to the third world's desire to build itself into the 21st century.
It isn't just China and India, Dubai is moving to create more skyscrapers with its petrodollars and is buying up steel(and most likely stainless steel too) to feed its appetite for more of everything (more stainless steel stoves, cutting tables for its kitchens for its restaraunts, hotels, etc)
I would expect other nations around the world to be doing much the same, if on a smaller scale.
The US never dreamed that it would have to compete for nickel, much the same way the US never dreamed it would have to compete against former communist countries for raw materials and as sellers of weaponry. Short sightedness and lack of planning seem to go hand in hand when the gub'ment is involved.
As far as economic minds are concerned, these are the same guys and gals who think that Keanes was right (Debt is wealth, gold is bad, you can borrow forever and never pay it back, inflation isn't as important as how much trade is going on, ad infinitum, ad nauseum, and I do mean nauseum.) |
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n/a
deleted
479 Posts |
Posted - 02/10/2007 : 13:22:11
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At the top of this page Ridewithme asks,
One more Newbie Question..
When the government changed the quarter and dime from silver to clad in '64 was this pre or post the value of silver going up?
This is a VERY interesting qwestion.
There are conspiratorial and non-conspiratorial ways of attempting to answer this one.
For the Conspiracy minded, here is some food for thought:
Read as much as you can about Executive Order 11110
Here's a starting place:
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At the bottom of that page are two external links, one of which I copy here.
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Separating opinion from fact is difficult in these matters, but a few facts are not disputed.
1. John Kennedy quietly challenged the power of the Federal Reserve in 1964.
2. He was killed under suspicious circomestances 5 months later.
3. 90% silver coins were replaced soon after John Kennedy was replaced.
This does NOT prove that there is any connection, but there is a seqwence of events that stand as facts no matter what our opinions about them may be.
Also, I might add that the percentage of all banks operating within the USA from 1913 to 1929 that were members of the Federal Reserve System was increasing gradually.
Then, from 1929 to 1933, the percentage of all banks that were members of the Federal Reserve System increased sharply.
During the great depression, very few member banks went out of business, but most of the non-member banks went out of business.
This of course Could be a coincidence, but a statistically unlikely one, to be sure.
One might be tempted to conclude that the great depression was a staged event that was used to drive non-member banks bankrupt.
With hindsight it looks like maybe the Fed Member Banks colluded to drive non-member banks out of business, thereby solidifying the monopoly status of the Fed System.
I would hate to think that all that suffering (Steinbeck) was caused on purpose in order to establish a firm monopoly over the nation's and then the world's (Bretton Woods) money supply.
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"Financially, the US economy has degenerated into a sort of cargo cult, where people feel that they can continue to attract recycled petrodollars by dancing around piles of internet servers with their cell phones and their laptops."
-Dmitry Orlov |
Edited by - n/a on 02/10/2007 13:24:42 |
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just carl
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
601 Posts |
Posted - 02/10/2007 : 21:53:14
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First of all there is no such thing as a dumb question. Always ask whatever you want because that is the greatest way to learn and also find out how many others don't know also. As to the shortage of Copper and other eletrically important materials, remember a large quantity of Copper has been being used for wiring, cables, contacts and other electronically required items. Virtually millions of miles of wire in the past was required for Electrical devices including the famous telephone. Lately computer lines, cable TV, etc. However, the latest trend is wireless. Even the mouse on many computers today is wireless. TV remotes are wireless, cell phones, wireless computers, etc. The older requirement for Copper is fading away. Numerous communication organizations are also switching to Fiber Optics instead of Copper wires and cable. The entire downtown Chicago area is being reworked with Fiber Optics. Here in Illinois ComEd is changing all communications between thier sites with Fiber optics and Micro wave towers. Very soon the no longer utilized Copper wires and cable will be recycled for other things like possibly coinage. Hoever, Stainless Steels can nowadays be manufatured cheaply and there are also now non magnetic forms of Stainless Steel that would be usable in vending machines.
Carl |
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Probly a dumb question
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