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Ardent Listener
Administrator
USA
4841 Posts |
 Posted - 11/26/2008 : 20:48:49
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Are Precious Metals Being Quietly Confiscated?
November 3, 2008 – In 1933 the U.S. government confiscated gold from the people. In 2008 is it covertly repeating that exercise?
By Dave Eriqat
1933
Many people are aware that in 1933, President Roosevelt issued Presidential Executive Order 6102, explicitly confiscating gold from private citizens. Some chilling excerpts from that executive order include:
Section 2. All persons are hereby required to deliver on or before May 1, 1933, to a Federal Reserve bank or a branch or agency thereof or to any member bank of the Federal Reserve System all gold coin, gold bullion, and gold certificates now owned by them or coming into their ownership on or before April 28, 1933, except the following:
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Section 3. Until otherwise ordered any person becoming the owner of any gold coin, gold bullion, and gold certificates after April 28, 1933, shall within three days after receipt thereof, deliver the same in the manner prescribed in Section 2;
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Section 9. Whoever willfully violates any provision of this Executive Order or these regulation or of any rule, regulation or license issued there under may be fined not more than $10,000, or,if a natural person may be imprisoned for not more than ten years or both; and any officer, director, or agent of any corporation who knowingly participates in any such violation may be punished by a like fine, imprisonment, or both.
After the issuance of this executive order, any American owning gold was retroactively made a criminal and remained so until 1975 [1], even though the U.S. Constitution specifically states that only gold and silver may constitute money!
The confiscation of gold in 1933 had little practical benefit, even though the U.S. dollar was still then backed by gold. It was more of a psychological assault on the populace, intended to coerce them into using U.S. dollars. It also enriched the politically-connected insiders who were still allowed to hoard gold when the price was arbitrarily raised from $20 per ounce in 1932 to $35 per ounce in 1934, a quick 75% gain for those in possession of gold. [2]
2008
While I cannot prove gold is being confiscated today, a number of curious observations have converged, making me wonder if a covert confiscation process is underway, specifically:
Prices are being relentlessly manipulated downward, apparently to dissuade people from purchasing precious metals. While many still argue against the theory that prices are being manipulated, I think the circumstantial evidence favoring manipulation is overwhelming.
The supply of precious metals, primarily at the retail level (where the masses buy it), is shrinking worldwide. All over the world dealers have shrinking stock to sell, delivery times are increasing and government mints are reducing sales to the public. The U.S. Mint, in particular, cites soaring demand as the reason for its stock depletion. While demand is certainly soaring, in times past the U.S. Mint has been able to satisfy much higher demand than today! So clearly soaring demand is not the sole explanation. Shrinking supply is also a factor. (By the way, falling prices amid shrinking supply and soaring demand is one of the prime arguments in support of the notion that prices are being manipulated.)
I see frequent TV commercials from companies offering to buy gold from the public, seemingly irrespective of market price movements. I can’t help but wonder if these companies are actually owned by the government or its agents. Even if they are not agents of the government, where do they sell the gold they collect? To the government? To the Federal Reserve? On the highly manipulated commodity futures market? The point is that the gold is being removed from the hands of the public and sequestered somewhere out of reach.
Central banks, which until recently were selling gold like mad to help depress the price, have abruptly ceased selling. Of course, that reduces the supply of physical metal available for ordinary folks to buy.
Finally, mining companies are seeing their stock prices pummeled, not to mention that at today’s prices it’s not cost-effective to even mine for precious metals, both of which will eventually reduce new supplies. And a significant portion of precious metal supply is extracted along with base metals, such as copper and zinc. But because demand and prices for these commodities have collapsed as well, the precious metal supply is reduced from that source too.
If one recognizes that today virtually all markets – stocks, bonds, currencies, commodities, precious metals, and even real estate (bank bailouts, toxic MBS purchases, interest rate reductions, renegotiated mortgages) – are heavily manipulated by the powers-that-be, then looking at the above list it’s easy to believe that the PTB could be behind every one of these trends.
If one wanted to effect a covert confiscation of precious metals, how would they go about it? They would quietly reduce the supply to keep people from getting their hands on precious metals, while encouraging the public to disgorge themselves of what precious metals they already held. And to thwart the law of supply and demand, which one would expect to cause precious metals prices to rise in a low supply/high demand environment, the prices can be manipulated in a forum that lends itself to that endeavor, such as the paper commodity futures market. (By the way, allowing the paper contracts bought and sold on the futures market to establish the price of physical metal is like allowing a market for apples to establish the price of oranges.)
I’m not alone in my speculation about confiscation. Here’s an article from The International Forecaster, Slaves To The Orgy Of Money, that suggests something similar:
In essence, this bottleneck between the wholesale and retail levels of the market in precious metals amounts to a de facto confiscation of gold and silver from the masses.
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In any case, most people in the US no longer own gold and silver. They are slaves to the orgy of money and credit that the Fed has provided, and they now worship paper over metal. This means that no confiscation is necessary to prevent the American sheople from having a place to store the value of their savings. All you have to do today is to keep US citizens from acquiring precious metals, first, by making it look too volatile to be a good investment, and second, by making it hard to acquire, especially in larger amounts. (My emphasis.)
Why Confiscate?
Today gold is theoretically even less relevant to the U.S. dollar than it was in 1933, but only theoretically. The U.S. dollar is, or until recently was “backed” by oil, since most of the oil on the planet is traded for dollars. The dollar is also “backed” by military muscle. Yet gold still holds tremendous psychological sway as a monetary alternative to dollars, sometimes even referred to as the “anti-dollar.” The Federal Reserve bank and central banks the world over hoard gold. Why? If the stuff has no value, if it is indeed a barbarous relic as has been asserted, they ought to sell it all. But they don’t because gold still provides an implicit psychological backing for fiat currencies. The fiat currency of a country that has no gold holdings would probably be trusted less than that of a country with gold holdings.
Nevertheless, although central banks apparently still need gold to imbue some legitimacy to their fiat currencies, they don’t want too much of a good thing. If people wise up and start storing their wealth in gold rather than in fiat currencies, the former will increase in value and the latter will decline in value. Issuers of such fiat currencies obviously don’t want their sole “product” to decline in value. So the trick for them is to balance the appeal of gold against that of fiat currencies. They must maintain a high enough valuation for gold so that it remains a credible asset with which to back their fiat currencies, but not too high a valuation so that people flock to gold instead of fiat currencies.
Today outright confiscation of gold makes little sense because U.S. dollars aren’t ostensibly backed by gold. Moreover, there are tens, if not hundreds of trillions of paper and electronic dollars floating around the globe. By contrast, all the gold ever mined from the earth is worth perhaps a couple of trillion dollars, and the amount of physical gold in the U.S. is probably worth no more than a few hundred billion dollars. So even if all the gold in the U.S. were confiscated it would amount to a figurative drop in the bucket compared to the amount of dollars circulating the planet. In other words, all that gold would do little to reinforce the backing of the currency. Overt confiscation of gold may, in fact, backfire and decimate the value of U.S. dollars, as people may view such an act as a desperate move to prop up a failing currency. Since dollars are used the world over, even though Americans may be deprived of alternatives to dollars, foreigners would not and they may well ditch their dollars specifically in favor of the very thing the U.S. wants to steer them away from: gold.
So if the powers-that-be wanted to confiscate gold today, it would be best to do it in a covert fashion, so as to not alarm either Americans or foreigners. But why might the PTB wish to confiscate gold today?
Demand among the masses is soaring. Remember, the PTB don’t want gold to become too desirable, but that’s exactly what is happening, so the genie must be stuffed back into the bottle.
This is a critically important time for the U.S. dollar and it cannot withstand the advent of a viable alternative. It’s widely accepted that the U.S. is effectively insolvent, meaning it cannot pay its day-to-day obligations. That’s why it must borrow $2 billion per day to keep operating. Its national debt cannot be paid back either. Ultimately the U.S. will go bankrupt and its currency, the dollar, will be destroyed.
Taking away as many alternatives to the dollar as possible, especially precious metals, is one way to extend the lifespan of the dollar. Perhaps once the dollar begins its final, irreversible descent to death is when the Amero will be introduced to replace it. Naturally, the people behind the Amero would not want a fledgling currency to have to compete with precious metals as a store of wealth, so weaning people off precious metals now might be part of the groundwork for the introduction of the Amero.
Such preparations are especially imperative when one considers that outside the U.S. there is frequent talk of creating new regional currencies that are based on precious metals. Perhaps even the Amero might be based on precious metals, which is all the more reason to take precious metals off the market right now, to accumulate the backing asset for these new currencies.
Another goal might be to steer people away from tangible stores of value, such as precious metals, and into paper realms which can be easily manipulated and looted, such as exchange traded funds, or ETFs. While in theory, ETFs are supposed to back each share with physical metal, I have my doubts, and I expect that ETFs will eventually devolve into the same kind of manipulated sham as the commodity futures market. Some observers have already noted discrepancies between physical metal and outstanding shares in some ETFs, and have even suggested that naked short selling is occurring. Not only is that not supposed to happen in a market that’s ostensibly 100% backed by physical metal, but naked short selling is a favorite tool for manipulation. Moreover, ETFs are managed by the very same insider corporations that are at the center of today’s financial storm. Can they really be trusted? Do they really have all the metal in their vaults that they claim? By contrast, one doesn’t have to trust physical metal, especially if it’s resting heavily in their own hands.
Conclusion
I have no proof that a quiet confiscation of precious metals is underway, but it looks like a plausible possibility. There are some good reasons why such a confiscation might occur and why it might be done covertly.
References
1. The Political and Economic Agenda for a Real Gold Standard, by Ron Paul.
2. Historical gold prices.
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All posts either by the members, moderators, and the administration of http://realcent.forumco.com are for your edification and amusement only. It is not the intent of realcent.forumco.com or its host to provide investment, medical, matrimonial, legal, security or tax advice and nothing posted here should be considered to be so. All rights reserved.
Think positive. |
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Lemon Thrower
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1588 Posts |
 Posted - 11/27/2008 : 06:33:50
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GATA and Ted Butler have reported on the downward manipulation in prices. So that likely is happening. greenspan or volker and others said that after nixon took us off gold for good it was a mistake not to manipulate the price down. so you can bet they have that covered this time.
Also, the excuse given by the mint is phony. sure demand is high but just pay for the gold. this is a cop out. the mint doesn't want the public to have the gold. nor does comex.
some theorize that in a few years the dollar will be bust and there will be a new currency partially backed by gold. if gold is widely owned then that makes a new currency more difficult to accpept. |
Buying:
Peace/Morgan G+ at $15.00
copper cents at 1.3X
wheat pennies at 3X
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Lemon Thrower
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1588 Posts |
Posted - 11/27/2008 : 07:21:27
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| also, some predict a default on comex. that makes possession of physical important. of course, if you have a real govt confiscation then you need a backup plan. |
Buying:
Peace/Morgan G+ at $15.00
copper cents at 1.3X
wheat pennies at 3X
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Nickelmeister
Penny Hoarding Member
Canada
588 Posts |
Posted - 11/27/2008 : 09:25:19
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I tried buying gold in some quantity about a month ago through ScotiaBank here in Canada. They advertise on their web-site claiming to be "one of the world's largest dealers in precious metals with over three centuries of expertise".
You must be logged in to see this link.
When I tried to place an order - including physical delivery to a safety deposit box - they urged me at every point AGAINST it:
"Shipping costs are too high"
"Insurance is too much"
"Buy a gold certificate instead!" was their repeated suggestion.
When I insisted on what I wanted, they said I would need to fill out a bunch of legal paperwork and such. I was delayed and passed from one advisor/manager to the next. Eventually I took my request to the branch president who also gave me the run-around. They made the whole process so incredibly cumbersome and unwieldly that I ultimately I did not get a single ounce from them. I found the entire experience bizarre. |
www.WinnipegGoldBuyer.com
Standing offer for sale of quality, second-hand solid gold jewellery:
<$100 USD worth - spot +25%, plus actual shipping
$101-500 worth - spot +20%, plus actual shipping
$501-1,000 worth - spot +15%, plus actual shipping
$1,001+ worth - spot +10%, plus actual shipping |
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Nickelmeister
Penny Hoarding Member
Canada
588 Posts |
Posted - 11/27/2008 : 09:27:10
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| Furthermore, on the web-site it claims "more and more Scotiabank customers are realizing the practical advantages of purchasing certificates backed by the assets of the bank". Assets of the bank? So, in fact, even their gold certificates are not backed by actual gold. No wonder they didn't want me to purchase physical. They probably don't have any! |
www.WinnipegGoldBuyer.com
Standing offer for sale of quality, second-hand solid gold jewellery:
<$100 USD worth - spot +25%, plus actual shipping
$101-500 worth - spot +20%, plus actual shipping
$501-1,000 worth - spot +15%, plus actual shipping
$1,001+ worth - spot +10%, plus actual shipping |
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Ardent Listener
Administrator
USA
4841 Posts |
Posted - 11/27/2008 : 09:50:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Nickelmeister
Furthermore, on the web-site it claims "more and more Scotiabank customers are realizing the practical advantages of purchasing certificates backed by the assets of the bank". Assets of the bank? So, in fact, even their gold certificates are not backed by actual gold. No wonder they didn't want me to purchase physical. They probably don't have any!
A good example of why we should own physical gold and hold it ourselves. Perhaps the next big news to hit the fan will be the public realization that there are a lot more precious metals IOUs out there then the physical metals. |
Realcent.forumco.com disclosure. Please read.
All posts either by the members, moderators, and the administration of http://realcent.forumco.com are for your edification and amusement only. It is not the intent of realcent.forumco.com or its host to provide investment, medical, matrimonial, legal, security or tax advice and nothing posted here should be considered to be so. All rights reserved.
Think positive. |
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Nickelless
Administrator
USA
5580 Posts |
Posted - 11/27/2008 : 22:00:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Nickelmeister
I tried buying gold in some quantity about a month ago through ScotiaBank here in Canada. They advertise on their web-site claiming to be "one of the world's largest dealers in precious metals with over three centuries of expertise".
You must be logged in to see this link.
When I tried to place an order - including physical delivery to a safety deposit box - they urged me at every point AGAINST it:
"Shipping costs are too high"
"Insurance is too much"
"Buy a gold certificate instead!" was their repeated suggestion.
When I insisted on what I wanted, they said I would need to fill out a bunch of legal paperwork and such. I was delayed and passed from one advisor/manager to the next. Eventually I took my request to the branch president who also gave me the run-around. They made the whole process so incredibly cumbersome and unwieldly that I ultimately I did not get a single ounce from them. I found the entire experience bizarre.
So why are they trying to sell a product that they, um, don't want to sell??? |
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--Latest article: Stocking up on spices to keep food preps lively
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Nickelmeister
Penny Hoarding Member
Canada
588 Posts |
Posted - 11/27/2008 : 23:37:17
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| Because they want you to buy their paper. |
www.WinnipegGoldBuyer.com
Standing offer for sale of quality, second-hand solid gold jewellery:
<$100 USD worth - spot +25%, plus actual shipping
$101-500 worth - spot +20%, plus actual shipping
$501-1,000 worth - spot +15%, plus actual shipping
$1,001+ worth - spot +10%, plus actual shipping |
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HoardCopperByTheTon
Administrator
USA
6807 Posts |
Posted - 11/27/2008 : 23:47:03
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Paper is cheap.. gold isn't. If they can talk you into paying for a piece of paper representing something that does not truly exist it is a lot easier and more profitable for them. That is how we got into such a big mess down in this country. I will admit to owning some paper copper, but all my gold and silver is held physically and locked up in the safety deposit box.  |
If your percentages are low.. just sort more. If your percentages are high.. just sort more.
Now selling Copper pennies. 1.6x plus shipping. Limited amounts available. |
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Cody8404
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
602 Posts |
Posted - 11/28/2008 : 09:28:36
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The paper is passing around and has been sold many times over. The real test is when everyone, or at least a few players, deciede to take thier gold or silver and not just pass the paper. Then we will see how much silver really exists.
I hope I have all I want by then. Heard that the Russians and Chinese are going take thier contracts starting December. I see prices rising very soon. |
Awake, O kings of the earth! Come ye, O, come ye, with your gold and your silver, to the help of my people, to the house of the daughters of Zion, to the help of the people of the God of this Land even Jesus Christ. |
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Nickelless
Administrator
USA
5580 Posts |
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jin.coy
Penny Pincher Member
Canada
128 Posts |
Posted - 12/02/2008 : 15:11:06
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Hi Nickelmeister,
I just bought some SML from scotiabank.
The price is spot + $4 + 8% tax(province tax).
for example today I paid: $9.40 + $4 + 8% = $14.42/each.
In the past I bought SML from scotiabank and they charged $3 over the spot, today I noticed that they charged me $4 over the spot.
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PreservingThePast
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1572 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2008 : 11:52:53
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Good reading. Makes you go hmmmmmmmm???????
How's the old saying go? A bird in the hand is worth two.......
Strengthen those hand muscles, everyone.
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jadedragon
Administrator
Canada
3788 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2008 : 22:00:31
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| I am wondering if the real problem at Scotiabank is that they just don't know how to order physical at many branchs due strickly to lack of experiance. I went to the local small town downtown branch a few months back and they were happy to order for me, but I didn't order because I was just getting interested in PM and felt the premiums+shipping were too steep for the quantity I wanted to buy. I just went to my Vancouver coin dealer instead. |
“The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” – George Bernard Shaw.
Why Copper Bullion ~~~ Interview with Silver Bullion Producer Market Harmony
Passive Income blog |
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Are Precious Metals Being Quietly Confiscated
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