| Author |
 Topic  |
|
|
NotABigDeal
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
3890 Posts |
 Posted - 09/20/2008 : 01:30:18
|
Okay. All I hear about and see is how bad the economy is nationwide. Well, I have just returned from a night at the casino. It was almost impossible to find a parking spot. Slots machines were packed. Almost all table games were packed. Craps tables all full. I got the last spot on the last roulette table. There seemed to be plenty of money around. I doubt all these people were gambling out of a state of depression. I'm just not seein' it. Just my observation....
Deal
|
Live free or die.
Plain and simple.
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your council or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen."
- Samuel Adams |
|
|
eharrison
Penny Pincher Member
USA
234 Posts |
Posted - 09/20/2008 : 02:33:14
|
It just hasn't hit the upper middle class as hard yet. I know my parents, while not at the casino, are doing OK. If you are in the pay check to pay check area or a bit above then times are tough.
The pin stripped bandits and plunge protection team have done a fair job at turning the would be hemorrhaging economy into a slow bleed. This weekend upwards of 20 banks should have gone under and the stock market shouldn't have opened on friday. But instead we have one small bank gone in WV that is done and trillions upon trillions of federal guarantees to big fish on wall street.
What I'm trying to say is that instead of letting all this bad paper in the market cause numerous banks, investment houses, and companies to fail, the gov. has stepped in and not let that happen. Therefore prolonging the inevitable financial storm that will cause main street to hurt and hurt bad. Hope that makes sense.
P.S. But don't worry because the white house won't even say we're in a recession yet and I just bought 5troy lbs of silver at $5. HA!  |
Freedom is popular
That's why I voted
Ron Paul! |
 |
|
|
Kurr
1000+ Penny Miser Member
2906 Posts |
|
|
Ardent Listener
Administrator
USA
4841 Posts |
Posted - 09/20/2008 : 12:13:33
|
quote:
Originally posted by NotABigDeal
Okay. All I hear about and see is how bad the economy is nationwide. Well, I have just returned from a night at the casino. It was almost impossible to find a parking spot. Slots machines were packed. Almost all table games were packed. Craps tables all full. I got the last spot on the last roulette table. There seemed to be plenty of money around. I doubt all these people were gambling out of a state of depression. I'm just not seein' it. Just my observation....
Deal
I saw a video the other day about how the numbers racket became popular during the great depression. It appears that gameing gets more popular as the economy slows. I have no doubt that if America goes down, she will go down with the peddle to the metal. (And I don't mean precious metal.) And why not? The stock market seems like more of a gamble now than the casino.
|
Realcent.forumco.com disclosure. Please read.
All posts either by the members, moderators, and the administration of http://realcent.forumco.com are for your edification and amusement only. It is not the intent of realcent.forumco.com or its host to provide investment, medical, matrimonial, legal, security or tax advice and nothing posted here should be considered to be so. All rights reserved.
Think positive. |
|
|
|
Delawhere Jack
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1680 Posts |
Posted - 09/20/2008 : 18:39:10
|
| People will always find money for vices, usually to the detriment of themselves....their families, loved ones, etc.. |
"Educate and inform the whole mass of the people... They are the only sure reliance for the preservation of our liberty." Thomas Jefferson
|
|
|
|
NDFARMER
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1197 Posts |
Posted - 09/20/2008 : 22:32:50
|
quote:
Originally posted by Delawhere Jack
People will always find money for vices, usually to the detriment of themselves....their families, loved ones, etc..
I agree I always thought if you have money to smoke, and go to the bar every night you really shouldn't be getting food stamps, medical assistance, rent assistance, heating fuel assistance. |
COPPER - the "poormans" precious metal!!!
SELLING - $100.00 face copper shipped to you for $189.00 machine rolled or bagged - PM me if your interested. |
|
|
|
NotABigDeal
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
3890 Posts |
Posted - 09/21/2008 : 00:01:05
|
quote:
Originally posted by NDFARMER
I agree I always thought if you have money to smoke, and go to the bar every night you really shouldn't be getting food stamps, medical assistance, rent assistance, heating fuel assistance.
Exactly. Some people need government help, that's fine by me and I support that. I do not support the current welfare state we are in. Way too many moochers.
Deal |
Live free or die.
Plain and simple.
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your council or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen."
- Samuel Adams |
|
|
|
Ant
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
894 Posts |
Posted - 09/21/2008 : 11:45:02
|
quote:
Originally posted by NotABigDeal
Okay. All I hear about and see is how bad the economy is nationwide. Well, I have just returned from a night at the casino. It was almost impossible to find a parking spot. Slots machines were packed. Almost all table games were packed. Craps tables all full. I got the last spot on the last roulette table. There seemed to be plenty of money around. I doubt all these people were gambling out of a state of depression. I'm just not seein' it. Just my observation....
Two things are going on here:
1. As Ardent Listener posted above, gambling/gaming has historically increased as economic conditions worsen;
2. My theory is that there are a lot of people who look around at what is going on with the economy and in the banking sector and for whatever reason, think that they're safe from what's happening. They don't see any reason to change their habits, so if they are accustomed to going to a casino, that's what they're going to keep doing. |
Lovely dimes, the liveliest coin, the one that really jingles. --Truman Capote
Coins are the metallic footprints of the history of nations. --William H. Woodin |
|
|
|
Copper Catcher
Administrator
USA
2092 Posts |
Posted - 09/21/2008 : 12:02:02
|
Ok folks... you will hear a lot about TARP i.e. troubled asset relief program within the next few weeks. I predict we are talking upwards of one TRILLION DOLLARS! The Treasury also announced a separate $290 billion program to stem the outflow of redemptions from money-market funds by taking ABCP as collateral. i.e. Asset-Backed Commercial Paper. The government also began purchasing short-term Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac debt in the open market, including $8 billion deposit notes this past Friday. Woooo hoooo, and it only just the beginning, hang on!
Funny, huh, how today every political person is Washington is worried now i.e. worried that when they leave to go home for recess to run for re-election that are going to get booted out of office regardless of their party affiliation!
In a separate announcement, the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission banned short selling on 799 financial stocks for at least 10 days. Oh yea....like just the financial stocks are being shorted not something like silver or gold...oh no, that never happens!
So, can we now say it is official? The S*** HAS HIT THE FAN!
|
|
|
|
Copper Catcher
Administrator
USA
2092 Posts |
Posted - 09/21/2008 : 12:05:35
|
By the way it is a world issue not just a US issue. Below is a re-cap to refesh the memory...
- June 2007: Alarm bells ring on Wall Street as two hedge funds of the New York investment bank Bear Stearns lurch to the brink of collapse because of their extensive investments in mortgage-backed securities.
- July/August 2007: A number of German banks with bad investments in the U.S. real-estate market are caught up in the crisis, including IKB Deutsche Industriebank, Sachsen LB (Saxony State Bank), and BayernLB (Bavaria State Bank).
- September 2007: The British bank Northern Rock is besieged by worried savers. The British government and Bank of England guarantee the deposits, and the bank is nationalised.
- October 2007: Profits at the U.S. financial giant Citigroup drop sharply. Then one large financial institution after another reports billions of dollars in writedowns and heavy losses. The CEO of U.S. investment bank Merrill Lynch is replaced by John Thain, head of the New York Stock Exchange.
- November 2007: Citigroup CEO Charles Prince resigns.
- January 2008: The Swiss banking giant UBS reports more than 18 billion dollars in writedowns for 2007 on account of its exposure to the reeling U.S. real-estate market. It announces another 19 billion dollars in writedowns in April. In the United States, the Bank of America acquires Countrywide Financial in a deal that rescues the country's biggest mortgage lender. Bear Stearns CEO James Cayne loses his job.
- February 2008: The U.S. Congress approves a 150-billion-dollar spending package to stimulate the sluggish economy.
- March 2008: On the verge of collapse and under pressure by the Federal Reserve, the U.S. central bank, Bear Stears is forced to accept a buyout by U.S. investment bank JPMorgan Chase at a fire-sale price. The deal is backed by Fed loans. In Germany, Deutsche Bank reports a loss of 141 million euros for the first quarter of 2008, its first quarterly loss in five years.
- July 2008: The California mortgage lender IndyMac collapses. Troubles for U.S. mortgage giants Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac continue to grow. Spain's largest property developer, Martinsa-Fadesa, declares insolvency.
- September 2008: The U.S. government takes over Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. The crisis at U.S. investment bank Lehman Brothers deepens. Stock prices of other financial institutions also fall sharply, including those of the U.S. investment bank Merrill Lynch, the insurance giant American International Group (AIG), and Washington Mutual, the largest U.S. savings and loan bank.
- September 15, 2008, "Black Monday": Lehman Brothers files for bankruptcy, Merrill Lynch agrees to be acquired by the Bank of America, and AIG reportedly seeks a bridge loan of billions of dollars from the Federal Reserve.
AIG gets $85 billion! Plus the Federal Reserve, working with central banks in Europe, Canada and Asia, is pumping as much as $180 billion into money markets due everyone being concerned about the health of the global financial system!
Now TARP etc...............TRILLONS of dollars, euros, yen later???
|
Edited by - Copper Catcher on 09/21/2008 12:06:17 |
|
|
|
jadedragon
Administrator
Canada
3788 Posts |
Posted - 09/21/2008 : 12:23:27
|
Three main types of gamblers (IMO):
1. Poor, scared, and/or desperate people who see winning as the solution to their problems.
2. Middle class, casual gamblers that find buying a lotto ticket or playing so poker to be good entertainment.
3. High Rollers with far too much money for thier own good - money to burn (these people are not at your local bingo parlor)
Expect group 1 to increase. Expect group 2 to decrease as discretionary incomes drop. |
“The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” – George Bernard Shaw.
Why Copper Bullion ~~~ Interview with Silver Bullion Producer Market Harmony
Passive Income blog |
|
|
|
NotABigDeal
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
3890 Posts |
Posted - 09/21/2008 : 14:42:10
|
Wish I was a 3....
Deal |
Live free or die.
Plain and simple.
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your council or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen."
- Samuel Adams |
|
|
|
wagsthadog
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
565 Posts |
Posted - 09/22/2008 : 12:30:13
|
Hi Deal,
Although I didn't live through it, I have read that Weimar Hyperinflatory Germany was also the wildest, craziest, and biggest party-time ever.
Think it illustrates human nature- I'm gonna party RIGHT NOW because tomorrow it'll be worse- F*** it!
Bars and casinos in the US will probably be jumping for the next few years....
wags |
Only when they CAN'T have it, ......THEN they'll want it.
I love Cents. If you get an UNC box, you win. If you get a regular circ. box, you win. If you get a zinc box, you don't lose....so you still win. |
|
|
|
swusc
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
553 Posts |
Posted - 09/22/2008 : 14:16:26
|
We have a problem. Congress must protect housing prices as 60% of people's wealth is in their home's equity (which provides no income to the owner or jobs to the country). I have stated before that this was bad for the country, but I am just a clueless ex accountant, premed student.
You have credit drying up and mass deleveraging. You have way to many homes/condos right now. (All of those old people that said people weren't making any more real estate forget that tearing down a block of houses and building 4 big condo building is creating more real estate) Deflation must hit home prices. There is no much supply and not enough cash to support current prices in some markets.
I am not for this, but what needs to happen to support the home prices is the current bail outs and another GSE (which is owned by the government period) for lending money for houses. Fannie and Freddie just need to be put into run off. The government will have to step in and take up the loss of capital from all these leveraged businesses. No one else has trillions and trillions of dollars of capital to use to make up for the loss in lending power.
No one wants to pay the piper. You have the ones that should pay him, but they can't. You have the other side that can pay, but don't owe it to him. He is going to demand payment so someone is going to have to suck it up and bite the bullet.
The major problem is that these people that are helped will put themselves back into this mess by borrowing again. We can fix the big problems through pushing the capital shortfalls onto the people, but you can't fix people's lack of understanding of finance. The lottery is a great example. You must be logged in to see this link.
These people are poor and can't manage money. That is why they spend a $1 on a 1:150 Million chance at $60 million. They get lucky and win, but then go bust...why? They can't manage money. They aren't poor for any reason other than they can't manage money. The key to retiring rich isn't large incomes...it is keeping your expenses a low % of your income. I think Warren Buffett's salary is $100K a year...he got rich using capital (his savings) and a very solid investment mind.
-SWUSC |
`Everybody is ignorant. Only on different subjects.' Will Rogers
"This is the shabby secret of the welfare statists' tirades against gold. Deficit spending is simply a scheme for the "hidden" confiscation of wealth. Gold stands in the way of this insidious process. It stands as a protector of property rights. If one grasps this, one has no difficulty in understanding the statists' antagonism toward the gold standard." Alan Greenspan, 1966. |
|
|
|
Delawhere Jack
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1680 Posts |
Posted - 09/22/2008 : 22:27:06
|
quote:
Originally posted by Copper Catcher
So, can we now say it is official? The S*** HAS HIT THE FAN!
1 vote yes....
And actually, by the counselling of two ladies who are very good friends, I've (somewhat) come to peace with it. Their advice has been, "you've just got to live your life".
I'm actually looking forward to tilling soil, planting crops, raising livestock, hunting, cutting wood, etc. I've not been getting any satisfaction from supporting a computer network for a bunch of lawyers who, ultimately, just play games with words and bullsh!t laws. I'm ready for a change of scenery.
|
"Educate and inform the whole mass of the people... They are the only sure reliance for the preservation of our liberty." Thomas Jefferson
|
|
|
|
eharrison
Penny Pincher Member
USA
234 Posts |
Posted - 09/22/2008 : 22:38:03
|
quote:
Originally posted by swusc
The government will have to step in and take up the loss of capital from all these leveraged businesses. No one else has trillions and trillions of dollars of capital to use to make up for the loss in lending power.
-SWUSC
When mistakes are made and to much bad paper is in the market things must fail that is how the system cleans itself.
Also, I am the government, my family and everyone else. I will attest to the fact that we DO NOT have the money for ANY of this. All the bailing out has just shoved a few more fingers in the levy. The "9th ward" will flood. The intervention just puts it off until tomorrow.
|
Freedom is popular
That's why I voted
Ron Paul! |
|
|
|
swusc
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
553 Posts |
Posted - 09/23/2008 : 11:40:25
|
quote:
When mistakes are made and to much bad paper is in the market things must fail that is how the system cleans itself.
Also, I am the government, my family and everyone else. I will attest to the fact that we DO NOT have the money for ANY of this. All the bailing out has just shoved a few more fingers in the levy. The "9th ward" will flood. The intervention just puts it off until tomorrow.
You are right that is how the system cleans itself. The question is this though is the paper really bad? A sale in an liquid market is a lot different than a sale in an illiquid market. You are less likely to get a "fair" price in an illiquid market.
Let assume the paper is bad. You let all these companies fail. How exactly are you going to get paid next week or month? I hope you get paid in cash by your employer, bc all the banks are going to be gone. All the cash your company has in banks is going to be tied up in a FDIC and SPIC mess. Hopefully they owned treasuries out right as a cash replacement, but as we have learned most CFOs aren't too bright.
Now that all the banks have failed, and they all pretty much would fail. They are to interlocked to closely, so the fire just spreads from bank to bank and to insurance companies it seems. We have no banking system, we have no markets for anything. Everyone is going to have liquidity problems. How much cash do you have on hand? Credit cards and ATM cards are going to be hard to use unless the government bails out FDIC (and with a total banking system failure... $700 Billion isn't going to be a drop in the bucket). Your gold and silver aren't going to do any good. In a total collapse of a banking system, people are going want goods... and not have the means for investment in gold/silver. You can't eat gold or silver. The investment in gold or silver might pay off, but it will be after the mass panic is gone and liquidity is coming back.
It is easy to say let them fail. Yet, you have to look at the fallout. Innocent people will feel most of the pain, and not the rich idiots that cause the mess. It will be your average Joe that goes hungry because he is out of work and no money to feed his family. He might have been smart and saved his money with no debt outstanding, but it doesn't matter. His savings are going to be trapped or gone along with his job when consumer demand is completely gone. How is that fair to little sally? Her dad was working hard and doing the right thing, but some greedy wall street guys destroyed the whole banking system.
We do have the money for it. We have as much money as we want to have.
That is the one beauty of FIAT currency. There is no limit to the money supply. The U.S. government can always be a lender of last resort. They didn't/won't be in the 1930s, and they cause one of the biggest financial mess in history.
Does it suck... of course. Does the do nothing suck more? seems like.
The time to fix the root problem is gone. It is time to just clean up the mess. Clean up is more expensive, but we can't leave in trash either.
-SWUSC |
`Everybody is ignorant. Only on different subjects.' Will Rogers
"This is the shabby secret of the welfare statists' tirades against gold. Deficit spending is simply a scheme for the "hidden" confiscation of wealth. Gold stands in the way of this insidious process. It stands as a protector of property rights. If one grasps this, one has no difficulty in understanding the statists' antagonism toward the gold standard." Alan Greenspan, 1966. |
|
|
|
eharrison
Penny Pincher Member
USA
234 Posts |
Posted - 09/23/2008 : 14:25:08
|
The sh!t has hit the fan.
-Ethan |
Freedom is popular
That's why I voted
Ron Paul! |
|
|
| |
Topic |
|
|
|
Bad Economy?
Forum Locked
