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pencilvanian
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
2209 Posts |
 Posted - 11/10/2006 : 20:36:03
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We have heard of the fears about gold confiscation by the government,
But the government is easily outfoxed with a little planning on our part.
When the call came in for gold back in 1933 some obeyed the law, but not all did, or else there wouldn’t be all these old gold coins from before 1933.
The government allowed gold coins of numismatic value to be exempt from the turn in, since at the depths of the depression, few had the resources to collect old gold coins.
While the gub’ment may try a gold grab today, those who have gold will either ignore the law, bury their bullion or take it overseas to put it in a safe deposit box in Switzerland or other overseas bank, beyond the clutches of Uncle Sam.
There is another alternative that has not been considered.
There are a few sites that offer coin bezels as a way to turn a Krugerand or Maple leaf or American Eagle into a beautiful piece of jewelry.
No one has yet passed such Draconian laws to deprive citizens of their jewelry, at least not in this country .
Think about it, from bullion that could be confiscated to jewelry that is exempt from the law, all with the help of a bezel.
Many who collect coins for their numismatic value abhor the practice of taking an old gold coin and turning it into jewelry, but it has been done in the past despite the wishes of collectors, and if putting a coin in a bezel can prevent confiscation, then one simply must do what one must do.
Here is one company to look up to get the idea of what I am talking about.
You must be logged in to see this link.
There others, just look up bezel or coin bezel.
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Edited by - Nickelless on 10/21/2009 01:00:22 |
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479 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2006 : 12:54:09
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Thanks for the tip. At the site you listed, the bezels are expensive relative to the coins. So I don't think I'll be going that route, but I appreciate you giving us all information from which to make an informed choice.
Part of the reason that I have mostly silver and very little gold is out of fear of gov't confiscation. I am also getting into pre82 pennies, nickles, and copper blanks, partly for the same reason. If they come for the gold, It is unlikely (although certainly possible) that they would come for the silver, nickle, and copper all at the same time.
Diversifying into jewelry as you suggest is one more way of diversifying, which of course I think is a good idea.
A billiard ball dropped from 1,362 feet (height of the South Tower) in a
vacuum would require 9.22 seconds to hit the ground. How then did the
towers collapse in 10 seconds and 11.4 seconds, and why has not one
member of the mainstream media insisted on honest answers from the
government in this regard?
"The individual is handicapped by coming face to face with a conspiracy
so monstrous [that] he cannot believe it exists."
- J. Edgar Hoover |
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pencilvanian
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
2209 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2006 : 16:04:44
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I did not look up the price of the bezels, an error on my part.
Still, if someone were to super glue a gold coin to a cheap amulet or brooch, it would still be considered jewelry and exempt from confiscation.
The only drawback with buying jewelry is the gold or silver content is much less than the price of the jewelry, retail wise. The workmanship and design by the goldsmith or silversmith pushes up the price of jewelry.
If you like jewelry go ahead and buy it, just try to get the best price you can. |
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Canadian_Nickle
Penny Hoarding Member
Canada
938 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2006 : 17:07:51
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| I have superglued small sterling "charm"-type medalions to some of my 10 and 20oz silver bars so I can wear them on my chains like big ol' rap-star bling. |
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pencilvanian
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
2209 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2006 : 17:24:20
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Clever idea Canadian Nickle, I am quite sure forum members can come up with some interesting jewelry with their bullion.
I remember purchasing a ring made from the handle of a piece of silverware. I am not sure if it is only silver plate, steel or real silver, I bought it because I liked it. Another creative use for bullion.
Of course, you yourselves could take up the art of jewelry making. This way you have an excuse for having so much gold and silver lying around.
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pencilvanian
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
2209 Posts |
Posted - 11/17/2006 : 18:41:04
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Just a follow up,
I remember what my coin dealer showed me once, a 2 ˝ gold coin turned into a watch fob. He knew it was a gold coins because of the weight and reeded edge.
Theoretically, with a Dremel or thin drill bit and drill, you can turn a number of bullion gold and silver coins into buttons by drilling small holes into them, painting the finished product, and tell the nice gu’bment men you have a button collection, no crime in that.
Aren’t there some brass buttons made to look like gold coins? I seem to recall seeing them in fabric stores.
If you want to make your own bezels, a piece of copper wire carefully wrapped around the bullion coin then super glued in place should work good enough.
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479 Posts |
Posted - 11/17/2006 : 22:13:25
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A massive confiscation scheme will only pull in bullion from people who are known owners.
I buy bullion with cash. Not just any cash, mind you. I don't show my face and account number to some robot ATM machine and then walk directly to the coin dealer with the serial numbers I just pulled out of the machine, oh no no no ...
I get, "cash back" at grocery stores. The "cash back" came from SOMEONE ELSES ATM withdrawl.
The money in the cash register at my local grocery store is slightly scrambled. THe money I pull from the ATM is forever linked to me via a very large database.
A billiard ball dropped from 1,362 feet (height of the South Tower) in a
vacuum would require 9.22 seconds to hit the ground. How then did the
towers collapse in 10 seconds and 11.4 seconds, and why has not one
member of the mainstream media insisted on honest answers from the
government in this regard?
"The individual is handicapped by coming face to face with a conspiracy
so monstrous [that] he cannot believe it exists."
- J. Edgar Hoover |
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n/a
deleted
78 Posts |
Posted - 11/24/2006 : 13:52:08
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Atheist,
Do you think the dealer keeps track of the serial numbers? I know the local coin dealer here just puts my money in the drawer with everyone else's. |
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132 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2006 : 09:53:20
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quote:
I buy bullion with cash. Not just any cash, mind you. I don't show my face and account number to some robot ATM machine and then walk directly to the coin dealer with the serial numbers I just pulled out of the machine
Smart move Atheist......
Bullion transactions of $10,000 or more are reported to the government.
Reportable Purchases:
If payment is made by cash greater than $10,000, however, it becomes a "cash reporting transaction." It is not the gold that the government wants reported but the cash. Such reporting applies to all business transactions involving more than $10,000 cash.
Regarding all cash transactions, Official General Instructions for IRS Form 8300 read: "Who Must File. - Each person engaged in a trade or business who, during that trade or business, receives more than $10,000 in cash in one transaction or two or more related transactions must file Form 8300. Any transactions conducted between a payer (or its agent) and the recipient in a 24-hour period are related transactions.
This regulation applies to cash - greenbacks, paper money. It does not apply to personal checks, wire transfers, or money market withdrawals. Howwever when cashier's checks or money orders are involved, cash reporting may be triggered.
Form 8300's General Instructions define as cash "a cashier's check, bank draft, traveler's check, or money order having a face amount of not more than $10,000." Using a cashier's check less than $10,000 would be a "cash transaction," but it would not be reportable because it is less than $10,000. However, two cashier's checks, each less than $10,000 but totaling more than $10,000 for a single purchase, would be considered cash and subject to reporting.
A little more info if your interested.....
You must be logged in to see this link.
"History records that the money changers have used
every form of abuse, intrigue, deceit, and violent
means possible to maintain their control over governments
by controlling the money and its issuance."
James Madison |
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479 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2006 : 13:16:11
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Data that is collected will only be mined for if there is a reason to mine for it.
If the GovMint decides to go around confiscating bullion AGAIN, they will have to start with ... ?
Well, they might start in their very own database.
When you get cash from an ATM and that cash is deposited by a coin dealer that number is trackable.
I'm not saying that they would bother to track that number, unless of course, they decide to confiscate private bullion AGAIN.
.................................................
A billiard ball dropped from 1,362 feet (height of the South Tower) in a
vacuum would require 9.22 seconds to hit the ground. How then did the
towers collapse in 10 seconds and 11.4 seconds, and why has not one
member of the mainstream media insisted on honest answers from the
government in this regard?
"The individual is handicapped by coming face to face with a conspiracy
so monstrous [that] he cannot believe it exists."
- J. Edgar Hoover |
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pencilvanian
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
2209 Posts |
Posted - 12/23/2006 : 17:41:18
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New idea on hiding in plain sight.
Requires a little more effort, but effect is nearly foolproof.
I happened to notice a few pull tabs lying near the curb and I came up with an idea.
What if someone were to melt down a silver quarter and pour the melted silver into a mold of a pull tab? I doubt that keeping a jar full of pull tabs would arouse any suspicion by either thieves or government agents. The only drawback is the fear of someone throwing away said pull tabs in error.
Perhaps burying a pile of sterling pull tabs in the back yard is the best idea.
It prevents accidental disposal of your silver and it prevents anyone with a metal detector from walking off with your silver hoard. No metal detectorist wants to bother taking a bunch of pull tabs home with them.
While this is a great deal more work than simply hiding silver from discovery, the effort may be well worth it for some.
I had heard or read somewhere that during the gold rush in 1849 Chinese gold seekers would melt their gold down,
turn said gold into woks,
paint said woks with black paint to make them look like iron,
and then ship the golden woks back to their families in China.
No official in either the US or China would think that the woks were anything other than iron, so they were allowed to go through customs no questions aked.
Could still work if you want a silver or gold fry pan.
Talk about preparing a meal fit for a king! |
Edited by - pencilvanian on 12/23/2006 17:42:56 |
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Cerulean
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
993 Posts |
Posted - 12/26/2006 : 09:06:43
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I'm not a detectorist, but if I were MD'ing and came across a large pile of pull tabs in one place that registered as silver, I'd be digging up that "cache". Pull-tabs are ignored when they are scattered, but that many do not get in one place by accident.
A better deterrant would be to scatter those tabs all around the yard about 4-8 inches deep, but that would make it harder to reclaim your silver stash, now would it?
EDIT: It also occurred to me that a silver pull-tab would weigh suspiciously more than an aluminum tab, and sound different if dropped. |
Edited by - Cerulean on 12/26/2006 09:10:26 |
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Metalophile
Penny Collector Member
USA
320 Posts |
Posted - 12/26/2006 : 19:20:40
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I've heard an anecdotal story of a guy who had some 1000 oz. bars, had decorative cloth covers sewn for them, and used them for door stops. No one had a clue that they were silver!
Metalophile |
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pencilvanian
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
2209 Posts |
Posted - 12/26/2006 : 19:36:50
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Maybe the pull tab idea has certian drawbacks/is unworkable, but it at least does get the mind working on different ideas on how to hide metals in plain site.
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Nickelless
Administrator
USA
5580 Posts |
Posted - 12/27/2006 : 03:26:37
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| How hot do soldering irons typically get? Would it be feasible to solder various metals into decorative shapes? What's the melting point of gold, silver, etc.? Or is this not advisable in a typical non-industrial setting? |
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15 Posts |
Posted - 12/27/2006 : 11:59:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Atheist
If they come for the gold, It is unlikely (although certainly possible) that they would come for the silver, nickle, and copper all at the same time.
Considering the preferred method of confiscating things these days... i.e., raids.. I wouldn't be surprised if they take silver, nickel, copper and anything else they see that appears to be of value. |
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pencilvanian
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
2209 Posts |
Posted - 12/27/2006 : 16:38:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Nickelless
How hot do soldering irons typically get? Would it be feasible to solder various metals into decorative shapes? What's the melting point of gold, silver, etc.? Or is this not advisable in a typical non-industrial setting?
I have seen a jeweler assemble gold ornaments into one ornament using a jeweler's torch, much like a mini version of a welding torch. This was done in a mall setting where the jeweler working and the customer watching was maybe 5-6 feet distance. While some would frown on this, it seemed safe enough for the jeweler and customer.
Solder melts at about 300-400 degrees farenheight , depending on the kinds of solder used,
Gold melts at about 1950 degrees Farenheight
Copper melts at about 1980 Degrees Farenheight
Silver melts at about 1860 Degrees Farenheight
Remember, I said 'about' not 'exactly'.
I am going by a foundry manual I have which lists various metals melting at different temperatures, but it doesn't list exact temperatures, it just lists different metals along the scale, divided in 50 degree increments.
The exact melting points can be found on Wikipedia, sorry I didn't mention that sooner. |
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Cerulean
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
993 Posts |
Posted - 12/28/2006 : 08:19:14
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How about making a bunch of these out of silver...
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pencilvanian
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
2209 Posts |
Posted - 12/28/2006 : 16:15:18
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That is probably one of the best hiding in plain sight ideas ever, Cerulean.
I recall seeing fairly thick silver wire for sale on an online jewelry supply store, so no melting would be needed.
Downside, pre-fabricated silver wire sells more than the going rate of silver.
Upside, no one on earth would think of wire hangers as anything than mundane zero value items. |
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Nickelless
Administrator
USA
5580 Posts |
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Gresham
Penny Pincher Member
184 Posts |
Posted - 10/21/2009 : 10:42:19
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The problem that I see is that once silver or gold are melted down, you lose the hallmark showing how much gold and silver you have. You guys know how or where to find a recognizable mint that melts old coins or jewelery down and stamps them. How were you planning on getting your-guyses gold and silver reminted?
I think I been here too long. Most of these people from this thread are gone and I remember reading this 3 years back. |
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PennySaved
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1720 Posts |
Posted - 10/21/2009 : 11:14:42
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Do you really think the government would try to confiscate silver, gold, etc in the modern age? Back when Roosevelt confiscated gold more people had gold because it had actually been circulating as real money back in the early 1900's. Don't you think as a percentage many fewer Americans today have gold and silver vs Americans in the 1930's?
I think it would be such a massive undertaking. Would it really be worth their time?
However, it is in the back of my mind that they may try it.
That is part of the reason I like pre-1933 European gold coins. If they did enact a law to confiscate, it would probably follow the previous law under Roosevelt. They would have some nuisimatic value and there is not much premium above the melt value vs. pre-1933 US Gold coins. |
SELLING COPPER PENNIES 1.4X FACE SHIPPED......“I sincerely believe that banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies, and that the principles of spending money to be paid by posterity, under the name of funding, is but swindling futurity on a large scale” Thomas Jefferson |
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Nickelless
Administrator
USA
5580 Posts |
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PennySaved
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1720 Posts |
Posted - 10/21/2009 : 12:01:03
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With regards to silver, wouldn't sterling silver tea sets, forks, etc be an alternative way to invest in silver and probably not confiscated.
You can even do that with copper; I have found some amazing hanging copper wall plates and big copper pots at yard sales and thrift stores. That would be an alternative to actually holding copper pennies that might be confiscated. |
SELLING COPPER PENNIES 1.4X FACE SHIPPED......“I sincerely believe that banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies, and that the principles of spending money to be paid by posterity, under the name of funding, is but swindling futurity on a large scale” Thomas Jefferson |
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Nickelless
Administrator
USA
5580 Posts |
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PennySaved
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1720 Posts |
Posted - 10/21/2009 : 13:01:15
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Oh ok sorry; I thought you were talking more about confiscation from the government.
Maybe you should have all the fillings in your mouth filled with gold :-) Or maybe we could be like rappers and have our teeth capped with gold :-) Sorry just being silly. |
SELLING COPPER PENNIES 1.4X FACE SHIPPED......“I sincerely believe that banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies, and that the principles of spending money to be paid by posterity, under the name of funding, is but swindling futurity on a large scale” Thomas Jefferson |
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Hiding in Plain Sight
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