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n/a
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 Posted - 05/11/2006 : 20:55:43
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I don't agree with Van Eeden (or I wouldn't be here) but I thought you'd like to see this:
With the rising price of copper there has been a buzz lately that the time may be ripe for hoarding copper pennies. To wit, the price of copper has risen from $0.60 to $3.50 (almost 500%) in less than five years and from $1.50 to $3.50 (133%) in barely more than one year. It is understandable that people are starting to think about hoarding pennies; but it is also complete folly...
The average lifespan of a coin is about thirty years, so by now most of the pre-1982 pennies have long since been reused by the US Mint to make new copper-plated zinc pennies. If you can find a pre-1982 penny it would make a neat conversation piece but I am afraid that as a money-making scheme, trying to hoard pennies is about as lame as hoarding paper dollars.
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El Borak's Myopia
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Myopia: (n) a lack of foresight or discernment: a narrow view of something
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n/a
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Posted - 05/11/2006 : 21:45:29
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| El Borak, you are a moron!!! |
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n/a
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Posted - 05/11/2006 : 21:55:57
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Well, I'm glad to meet you, too, and I'm glad you have such insight to share with the group.
It usually takes a few posts for people to figure out that I'm a moron, so it's a good thing you're here to help the group out.
El Borak's Myopia
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Myopia: (n) a lack of foresight or discernment: a narrow view of something |
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ImperialFleet
Penny Pincher Member
USA
217 Posts |
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realcent
Forum Admin
USA
246 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2006 : 22:26:25
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Thanks for the article El Borak.
The author of the article makes it sound like you would be hard pressed to find a pre-82 cent. Maybe he should try searching a few roles first, lol.
Oh, and Jedi, as mentioned, El Borak did not write the article, he was just posting a link to it for us to read. While I agree with you that the author of the article (who is NOT El Borak) is wrong on this issue, it is usually more constructive to attack ideas instead of people.
RealCent
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For more copper cent hoarding information check out:
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n/a
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Posted - 05/11/2006 : 22:47:26
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Van Eeden's assumption (noted by RealCent) is interesting. Is there a geographical advantage to finding coppers? I'm in Kansas, and about 1 in 6 cents I see is pre-1992; in fact, I often get change where I get 3 or 4 at a time. Maybe they don't have 'em in New York or wherever he is.
Has anyone else had trouble finding them, and if so, where are you located?
El Borak's Myopia
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Myopia: (n) a lack of foresight or discernment: a narrow view of something |
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n/a
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Posted - 05/12/2006 : 15:47:00
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Sorry El Borak.
I just could not believe what I was reading. I thought you were expressing your own opinion. Perhaps I am the moron. |
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Posted - 05/15/2006 : 00:21:36
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Van Eeden: You are the moron. :)
I could understand if he was talkin about the wheat pennies.
Since the pre-1982 pennies are not rare, they are fairly easy to hoard for now.
At some point, it might be near fruitless. Maybe Van Eeden lives in 2016. |
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Ardent Listener
Administrator
USA
4841 Posts |
Posted - 05/15/2006 : 08:25:19
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Van Eeden is a stooge of the mint. He will convince a lot of people not to hoard pennies and/or nickels with his misinformation. This is good news for the rest of us.
Bad money drives out good money. |
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Frugi
Administrator
USA
627 Posts |
Posted - 02/07/2007 : 21:14:12
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I was reviewing old topics like this one here and thought you guys might want to contact Van Eeden to let him know how much of a stooge he IS. I sent him an email asking if his opinion is the same now as when he wrote his initial article in May 2006; still waiting to hear back from him.
Here is a link to his personal email, address and phone number.
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Real Eyes Realize Real Lies
Buy Less. Work Less. Live More.
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n/a
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21 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2007 : 07:23:35
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quote:
If you can find a pre-1982 penny it would make a neat conversation piece
Well, since I have over 10,000, I guess I could have quite a conversation. I guess Van Eeden also thinks the price of Cu will stay the same for ever.
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M39/10USNY:US1Cu10000:US10Ag94:US25Ag22:US50Ag18
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beercritic
Penny Pincher Member
USA
112 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2007 : 12:37:48
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Sheesh, calling the pre 82 cents a 'conversation piece' ought to cause MORE folks to hoard them.
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n/a
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Posted - 02/08/2007 : 15:16:38
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I do not think it far fetched to assume that Mr. Van Eeden has an agenda that he is not being completely frank about.
I do not know what motivates him, and I am tempted to speculate, but I won't.
I'll just say that when people say things that look stupid, they often are simply lying and not stupid at all.
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"Financially, the US economy has degenerated into a sort of cargo cult, where people feel that they can continue to attract recycled petrodollars by dancing around piles of internet servers with their cell phones and their laptops."
-Dmitry Orlov |
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Ryedale
Administrator
USA
523 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2007 : 16:55:12
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Perhaps he needs to see this "Conversation Piece"
{IMG}You must be logged in to see this link.{IMG}
Nobodys really hoarding.
Ryedale
Hoard Copper Pennies,
The market will develop |
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beercritic
Penny Pincher Member
USA
112 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2007 : 17:25:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Atheist
I'll just say that when people say things that look stupid, they often are simply lying and not stupid at all.
Does that include 'W' ?
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n/a
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479 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2007 : 20:49:02
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Thom Hartman claims that he has analysed video footage of Bush speaking and that when Bush talks about "getting tough" or killing people or torturing children or any of that evil stuff that he loves so much, Bush doesn't make mistakes.
But, According to Hartman, when Bush II talks about health care, or peace initiatives, or fairness, or compassion, he f-cks up every other word.
This according to Hartman is a clear sign of pathology.
Also George Lakoff says that he too has analyzed Bush's public speaking record.
According to Lakoff, When Bush ran for Texas State Legislature and lost in (1976?) he ran against a real bubba.
During the televised debates, George Bush Jr. sounded like and acted like what he really was, a fortunate son who had gone to High School at the elite Andover where he was on the debate team and a cheerleader. After going to Yale and Harvard, he debated bubba from Texas and bubba won.
At that point according to Lakoff, Karl Rove and George Jr. created the character of the modern "W" dubya. They vowed that they would never be out-bubba-ed ever again.
When normal people make a mistake in speaking, they shrink and frown.
When dubya makes a "mistake" in his speaking, he smirks and lights up as if he is thinking, "Aren't I clever to play the fool SO WELL."
After literally decades of pretending to make stupid statements he lets some stupid statements out that are not an act.
But I say stupid things from time to time, so does Bill Clinton, Walter Cronkite, Tony Blair, and Bill Gates.
Bush's "dumb hick bubba with the big texas belt buckle" act is so consistent, that we almost forget that he went to Andover, Yale, and Harvard. He's a good actor and he stays in character. In fact the entire republican "incompetence" subterfuge is smoke and mirrors to keep people from thinking about how deeply and consistently EVIL these people are.
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"Financially, the US economy has degenerated into a sort of cargo cult, where people feel that they can continue to attract recycled petrodollars by dancing around piles of internet servers with their cell phones and their laptops."
-Dmitry Orlov |
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Posted - 02/08/2007 : 23:14:41
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The original topic started some time ago. I have not gone through the replies yet.
My question to you or the group is, what is happening with all the damaged coopers?
Are they going into garbage or are they send back to a mint?
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beercritic
Penny Pincher Member
USA
112 Posts |
Posted - 02/09/2007 : 07:39:36
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Interesting Atheist,
I was noticing the smirking coming right after the most egregious lies in each speech. He would tell a whopper ('man, I think I pulled that off,), shift his eyes a bit, then smirk. Seemed to do it pretty consistently, too. It's gotten to the point where it's too painful to actually watch him speak, so I've resorted to just listening.
IMO, if the stupidity is an act, he's a much better actor than anyone in Hollywood. No way is he Ivy League material. I know high school drop-outs that are more articulate. No doubt, he's smarter than he appears. Course, I've not heard any of the earlier debates where he might have been more cogent.
Completely agree on the EVIL part, tho.
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pencilvanian
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
2209 Posts |
Posted - 02/09/2007 : 19:46:55
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quote:
Originally posted by smilie59
The original topic started some time ago. I have not gone through the replies yet.
My question to you or the group is, what is happening with all the damaged coopers?
Are they going into garbage or are they send back to a mint?
I suspect it is a little of both going on.
If people don't know or care that a damaged coin can be sent back to the mint for new coins, the penny gets tossed in the trash (there was one story, can't find it now, of how one recycler is separating trash from a landfill and is finding $1000 in change a week in with the trash.)
The mint takes back damaged coins and issues a check for their face value. How many americans know about this program, though?
I have one damaged quarter and dime, but the cost and hassle of sending them to the mint for 35¢ isn't worth the cost of a postage stamp, though they prefer you send the coins insured(even more of a cost)
I'll just keep the damagedcoins in a drawer for now. |
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just carl
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
601 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2007 : 22:26:20
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Here is something to think about. We are all doing now what is the thing for now and not tomorrow. What I mean is we are all discussing the prices of metals such as Copper now and recently. I may be wrong but this kind of thinking is what got those people in trouble not long ago that tried to corner the market on Silver and the price plummitted down and they went down with it. Now as for copper prices they are climbing due to the still present usage and the availability of the metal. However, note. Most people do not use telephone lines anymore, just cell phones, no wires. Many electronic devices no longer use hard wiring, just circuit boards. The military usage of Copper to make brass shells for armaments will soon be deminishing if the wars stop that is. Most communication systems are switching to fiber optics lately. In Chicago, for example, all copper wiring for communications is being removed and replaced with fiber optics. Soon copper will not be used in the coin industry either. As time goes on the necessity for the usage of copper will deminish and the prices will drop accordingly. Like I said most people are doing now what is good for today but may be a waste for tomorrow.
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Posted - 02/21/2007 : 23:10:58
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I always benefit from reading people who don't just repeat what they are hearing, but instead think critically.
So Thanks JustCarl, you are bringing up an important generality, "Don't extrapolate the future from straight line projections" and some important specifics about copper.
I think that copper will likely hold its value, but I could be wrong for the reasons you've mentioned.
Here are some reasons to be bullish on metals;
1. Metals reqwire a lot of energy (heat, electricity, etc.) to process. If energy becomes scarce or dear or expensive, all the things that reqwire a lot of energy will also become expensive.
2. Metals such as copper are indeed finite. If a billion Chinese and Indians were to live at the material level of Europeans and Americans, this would reqwire a lot of metals.
3. Fiat money has been stretched farther than ever, not only by the USA. If the fiat rubber band snaps or snaps back, there will be a need to find a secure means of transacting business. That secure method has always been metals.
Of course you have heard all of this before and your post is a rebuttal to all of this.
Time will tell, right?
So the qwestion remains, "to hoard or not to hoard?"
You must answer that qwestion for yourself and I must answer it for myself.
For the record,
I continue to buy and hoard Copper, Nickel, and Silver at today's prices.
Today I bought $200 in US Nickels and recieved via mail 100 Canadian Nickels (one pound of 99.9% Nickel)
What ever you decide, I wish you well.
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just carl
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
601 Posts |
Posted - 02/27/2007 : 10:23:15
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It may well be true that metals of all kinds will be a valuable commodity. However, over the years I've noticed the constant decrease in metals as a necessity for anything. Take the auto industry for example. How much Chrome is now on a car compared to the famous Chomemobiles of the 50's and 60's. When was the last time you noticed a metal bumber on a car. So much in the way of plastics are now the primary item for a car and this is true all over the world. Even the space shuttles utilize ceramics for heat protection, not metalics. As I mentioned copper wiring all over the world is deminishing at a fantastic rate even in most other countries. Plastics are being recycled more and more and then used for just about everything. Open up a radio, TV, stereo, MP3 player, etc. and look for metals. Everywhere metals are not being used as much and for many reasons besides value. I really think soon enough metals will be like the Beanie Baby, stamp collecting or other things that at one time were the big craze and now are part of our past.
One more thing to remember is our scientific community is constantly attempting to change materials from one thing to another and someday may well be able to produce even Gold, Silver or Platinum from Aluminum or Lead. Not long ago it was said no one would ever be able to make a diamond but that is now becoming quite popular.
Carl |
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Posted - 02/27/2007 : 11:41:24
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I find Alchemy a facinating topic.
I will admit up front that it is more likely than, say, perpetual motion, but it is rather unlikely still.
In nuclear reactors Large nuclei are broken into Small nuclei.
This only happens under a FEW narrow circomestances.
The resulting products are more expensive than gold, by many orders of magnitude.
Divide cost the of building the reactor, etc. by the material produced and it always cost much more than any naturally occuring substance.
If there is another technology for turning lead into gold, I haven't heard of it.
If it exists, it may take a very long time to bring that technology to market.
Your example of diamond, is interesting.
It is an example of turning one form of carbon into another form of carbon.
You also mention that metals used per unit of industrial output is going down and this is a very important observation.
The qwestion remains however, "Is the total usage going down as a result of the decrease in usage per unit of output?"
It seems that the answer, so far at least, is no. The number of units being produced appears to be increasing faster than the decrease you refer to. The evidence for this assumption is that the prices are up.
You mentioned that "copper wiring all over the world is diminishing at a fantastic rate even in most other countries."
Perhaps this is true, I suspect that it is not.
Do you have a citation or source for that claim?
I would love to learn more about this.
With respect,
A
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Edited by - n/a on 02/27/2007 11:44:51 |
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pencilvanian
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
2209 Posts |
Posted - 02/27/2007 : 18:43:46
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I partly agree with Carl as far as our expectations on metals prices is concerned.
Now is a great time to hoarde metals, but timing is the key.
Now is the key word in our thinking.
Busts follow booms just as night follows day.
At one time inlfation fears pushed up the price of precious metals to levels never seen before in recent history. Those who saw the run up in prices similar to the tulip frenzy in Holland sold off in time to preserve their gains, and were probably glad to have done so when the price of gold and silver fell.
Now metals are going up, but we all should take these price rises with a grain of salt. Eventually, due to the high prices, smaller players will try to get into the metals market to earn "easy money" selling small up and coming mining companies, small up and coming refiners, small up and coming recyclers, etc.
When the supply of metals reaches a glut level and demand is shrinking even slightly, the easy money will vanish, the big mining/refining concerns will have lean years ahead and those small investors who bought into the phrase "Metals have nowhere to go but up" will be left holding the bag, again.
This glut scenario is still a long way off, so gathering metals, both precious and base is still a great idea.
Just remember, everybody who makes money eventually take their profits when they feel the time is right. Warren Buffet has sold off companies when they were underperforming or were no longer as profitable as they once were.
Always keep in the back of your mind, don't just buy when the fools are selling, but sell when the fools are buying.
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Edited by - pencilvanian on 02/27/2007 18:49:17 |
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