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Copper Catcher
Administrator
USA
2092 Posts |
 Posted - 06/30/2008 : 12:51:29
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I have a bunch of .925 sterling I'd like to send off to a refiner and get back silver bars. I really want to get a name brand kilo bar but would also consider 1oz or 10 oz Engelhard etc.
However it is confusing. Some claim to give you back 95% but then charge a per ounce fee. Some charge no fees but only pay 88%. Not sure who is honest or not?
The only one I have found so far is You must be logged in to see this link. they pay 88% and then charge you $1.50 per ounce over spot for silver bars if you want that in return, which seem high to me.
Does anyone have any suggestions on who I could trust and not pay out the nose in fees that also would send in return silver bars?
Send me an email.....
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Edited by - Copper Catcher on 06/30/2008 14:20:15 |
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Steiner
Penny Collector Member
Canada
278 Posts |
Posted - 06/30/2008 : 13:23:41
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That link does not work on my computer.
Steiner |
Steiner |
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horgad
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1641 Posts |
Posted - 06/30/2008 : 14:03:20
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I would not get hung up selling and buying from the same place. Sell to highest buyer and buy from the lowest seller within reason. Anyhow, I don't know anyplace better than You must be logged in to see this link. for selling scrap and You must be logged in to see this link. for buying. The only downside to Tulving is the high minimum order.
$1.50 an ounce over spot is way to high. Tulving is like $.69 an ounce over...
By the way, there is no such think as an honest refiner (unless you are doing the refining yourself).  |
Edited by - horgad on 06/30/2008 14:06:44 |
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Copper Catcher
Administrator
USA
2092 Posts |
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kavajava
Penny Collector Member
USA
490 Posts |
Posted - 06/30/2008 : 15:32:18
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I have also heard good things about midwestrefineries.com--I think I actually read about them in a reputable newsletter.
I have a friend who is very pleased with Tulving--I have never been able to meet the minimum buying requirements though. |
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Kurr
1000+ Penny Miser Member
2906 Posts |
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Robarons
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
522 Posts |
Posted - 06/30/2008 : 22:52:35
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I have dealt with Midwest Refineries before and are great for scrap gold and silver. No fees and no min. orders.
HOWEVER! There are some catches they have like less weight after melt,Assy Yields, and troy ounces contained/payable. I have found that with gold and silver they take an extra 10% off the top. (making their percents 78% for ster. and 84% for gold) But they still are the best and would still give them a recommendation to anyone.
As I look at my last shipment they pay .35 a gram for sterling after terms stated above when silver is $17.35. |
Robber Baron= Robarons |
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Copper Catcher
Administrator
USA
2092 Posts |
Posted - 07/01/2008 : 14:05:54
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| Robarons, when I called the guy and told him I had sterling he very nice but quick to say that old jewelry stamped .925 might really be .900 and that the weight would be different. Of course I'm sure I want get credit for the copper either, LOL! I’ll probably send a trial box off just to see what they give me before really unloading. |
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horgad
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1641 Posts |
Posted - 07/01/2008 : 14:36:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Copper Catcher
Robarons, when I called the guy and told him I had sterling he very nice but quick to say that old jewelry stamped .925 might really be .900 and that the weight would be different. Of course I'm sure I want get credit for the copper either, LOL! I’ll probably send a trial box off just to see what they give me before really unloading.
Yeah...apparently all those stamps are on the high side if you trust the refiners.  I lost 5%-10% of my estimated PM weight when I used Midwest Refineries, but I haven't found any place better. 
If somebody knows someplace better let us know... |
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Nickelmeister
Penny Hoarding Member
Canada
588 Posts |
Posted - 07/01/2008 : 22:14:06
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| Can anyone suggest a reputable Canadian bullion supplier? |
www.WinnipegGoldBuyer.com
Standing offer for sale of quality, second-hand solid gold jewellery:
<$100 USD worth - spot +25%, plus actual shipping
$101-500 worth - spot +20%, plus actual shipping
$501-1,000 worth - spot +15%, plus actual shipping
$1,001+ worth - spot +10%, plus actual shipping |
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goldsilverpro
Penny Sorter Member
26 Posts |
Posted - 07/04/2008 : 13:58:31
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| Isn't the term "Honest Refiner" an oxymoron? |
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tyoon21
Penny Sorter Member
52 Posts |
Posted - 07/04/2008 : 16:58:25
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| The best refiner in my humble opinion is good ol' Ebay. People buy at spot or even sometimes above and the fees are generally low. I always start my auctions at $0.99 to get the lowest insertion fees. Usually it's bid up to my liking in about three days. The best part, the buyer pays for shipping! |
Take this job and shove it. I don't want to work here no more... |
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n/a
deleted
21 Posts |
Posted - 08/04/2008 : 00:45:33
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Few basic things to remember and know.
1. Any alloy, Gold or silver unless its pure, is always going to be off in some way. The belief that you can amass a pile of jewelry and scraped items that could be 1 to 200 years old from unknown origins and times could be consistent is some way and accurate, is an absolutely foolish idea.
2. Just like you are, a refiner is in business to do business and make money. Unless you do retail there is no magic place that will give you %100 of spot and do the work of figuring out how much is there. this is a problem that many people suffer with, the idea that someone may make a profit on them. Same people have no problem buying refined gasoline for over spot, paying Hundreds of dollars per bushel for coin in the form of chips, and paying $1.25 for 10 cents in coffee or soda. They also are willing to take 50 cents a pound for aluminum cans if the spot price is a dollar a pound...If you use a refining service, they cant do it for free. Think of gold and silver like copper and iron and you will find yourself making more money over time if your scrapping.
3. If all refiners are dishonest then what makes the manufactures honest? When that .925 stamp or 14k stamp is put on there? As someone who does jewelry most casting houses buy alloy or make it them selves. If the alloy is the wrong one, a bunch of 14k can be 10k by accident or malice. Also. Solders stones and glue. keep in mind that a simple guy casting junk silver into items can easily use coins that are 900 or 800 or 720 and may not know what they are doing..or do but just think, who is gonna know.
I have yet to hear of anyone going out and buying a new piece of jewelry and then running down to test it to make sure its 14k EVER!
Melt losses do happen. older jewelry, does in fact have crap on it. Hand lotion, oil, oxygen, yeah that tarnish adds weight, dont believe me, pick up a glass of water...thats mostly oxygen. Likewise things that are sub alloys like Zinc when melted can be vaporized. Anytime you melt anything it burns off impurities. The Job of a refiner is to refine it too the most pure state, and pay on that.
4. how to find an honest refiner. thats Easy! take your scrap, melt it or have it melted into a single bar. Cut that bar in half. Send one half to one refiner and the other to another, Tell both refiners what you did, or dont tell the one your testing to see if they are honest.
The results should be almost exactly the same for the percentages, if they are with in a % they are both honest.
if one is much higher than the other. Well you got em and you know who to deal with and I am sure that the bad news would end up on forums and in news very quickly.
5. Before I learned how to do refining I always wondered if I was getting screwed or not because a lot of old guys said that about refineries. After independently testing and getting results myself. I knew that I was not screwing myself and I have no problems sending things to some refiners.
6. If a price is too good to be true, DUH!!! its not.
there are some people out there its good to sell too, but that does not always mean they are the best to buy from.
And the other wise. there are other people with good deals that are the best to buy from, but they must make a profit too, probably not the best to sell too if you buy from them, because no one works for free.
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horgad
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1641 Posts |
Posted - 08/04/2008 : 07:52:46
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| Inquiring minds want to know...who is your favorite refiner? |
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n/a
deleted
21 Posts |
Posted - 08/04/2008 : 15:33:25
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Myself of course, I know the chemistry never lies. I use a private refiner that you must be a business to use. They also have larger minimums. They do more of the larger scale recovery, things I dont want to do. like sludge processing, sweeps and dust recovery from polishings. Super fine micron gold recovery that you send in several hundred pounds of low grade gold containing cloth polishing grit etc. They treat it like ore sludge and buy from mines. For run of the mill scrap jewelry, nuggets etc, I just do it myself. I do the easy stuff, for the harder stuff I use a different company but only about once every 2 to 3 years. Unless your willing to send it at least 100 ounce of gold contained or 10,000 oz silver, they wont talk too you. I know that no one on this forum would quality and they dont like to be bothered by questions, people in the business know who I am talking about. But there are refineries out there that just buy from refineries. For example, if your a government or a bank or mint and need a ton of gold or more, these would be the people to talk too. For them buying 100 ounce of gold is like us buying a silver dime at melt value, sometimes you do it but its kinda of annoying. that is what happens to most larger mine productions etc. One has to have a customer for all that gold, and be able to handle it as well. They dont deal with the public.
Public refineries are different. They will tkae 1 ounce and do a lot. Kind of like I do. But my favorite...is me, no reason to cheat myself, and of course others I work with, cheating is bad for business. hence why I post knowledge on forums like this one to keep rumors and speculation from running rampant and keeping the incorrect info down to a murmur. People could hurt themselves and others from some of the things I have read, both physically and financially. |
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horgad
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1641 Posts |
Posted - 08/05/2008 : 07:59:28
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quote:
Originally posted by jewelerdave
Myself of course, I know the chemistry never lies. I use a private refiner that you must be a business to use. They also have larger minimums. They do more of the larger scale recovery, things I dont want to do. like sludge processing, sweeps and dust recovery from polishings. Super fine micron gold recovery that you send in several hundred pounds of low grade gold containing cloth polishing grit etc. They treat it like ore sludge and buy from mines. For run of the mill scrap jewelry, nuggets etc, I just do it myself. I do the easy stuff, for the harder stuff I use a different company but only about once every 2 to 3 years. Unless your willing to send it at least 100 ounce of gold contained or 10,000 oz silver, they wont talk too you. I know that no one on this forum would quality and they dont like to be bothered by questions, people in the business know who I am talking about. But there are refineries out there that just buy from refineries. For example, if your a government or a bank or mint and need a ton of gold or more, these would be the people to talk too. For them buying 100 ounce of gold is like us buying a silver dime at melt value, sometimes you do it but its kinda of annoying. that is what happens to most larger mine productions etc. One has to have a customer for all that gold, and be able to handle it as well. They dont deal with the public.
Public refineries are different. They will tkae 1 ounce and do a lot. Kind of like I do. But my favorite...is me, no reason to cheat myself, and of course others I work with, cheating is bad for business. hence why I post knowledge on forums like this one to keep rumors and speculation from running rampant and keeping the incorrect info down to a murmur. People could hurt themselves and others from some of the things I have read, both physically and financially.
As for myself I wouldn't underestimate some of the members on this thread. There are some heavy hitters lurking in the shadows. Anyhow, I am curious to know what refining technique you settled on and whether or not you are using a commercially available system or just your own set-up. |
Edited by - horgad on 08/05/2008 11:44:04 |
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swusc
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
553 Posts |
Posted - 08/05/2008 : 11:31:05
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jewelerdave,
Is it really better to refine silver by fire over chemistry? Is fire done over chemistry due to cost?
I am pretty sure that Nitric Acid would refine any silver/copper mixture. I don't think it would be worth it to try and save the copper, but I have never actually done it (other than on paper).
Now, that I think of it... refining 40% silver this might be costly due to the amount of acid needed.
-SWUSC |
`Everybody is ignorant. Only on different subjects.' Will Rogers
"This is the shabby secret of the welfare statists' tirades against gold. Deficit spending is simply a scheme for the "hidden" confiscation of wealth. Gold stands in the way of this insidious process. It stands as a protector of property rights. If one grasps this, one has no difficulty in understanding the statists' antagonism toward the gold standard." Alan Greenspan, 1966. |
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n/a
deleted
21 Posts |
Posted - 08/08/2008 : 23:43:24
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Silver is done by chemistry, Nitric dissolves silver and copper but not gold, so gold residue stays on the bottom and can be filtered off and refined by Aqua Regia. The silver copper solution needs to have the silver dropped,
most basic way is to use non iodized salt. This makes Silver chloride, it sinks too the bottom and the copper stays in solution, or more copper can be added to force the silver out of solution, both ways work.
The silver chloride needs to be stripped of the Cl, so after a few rinses to remove the copper and nitric acid, a small amount of HCL can be added, then aluminum, this makes the silver into something that can be melted.
so the junk on the bottom just requires being filtered, heated and fluxed and melted and you get 999 fine silver.
Any Gold and silver refining can be done in a back yard, its all Victorian age or older technology. Its just do you want to spend your time learning it and doing it or is it better to pay the small fee to have a professional do it instead who is set up for it.
For gold I use Aqua Regia, I have my own set up so I can handle different volumes
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Honest Refiner Needed
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