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Kurr
1000+ Penny Miser Member
2906 Posts |
 Posted - 06/30/2008 : 10:36:42
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With oil hitting $143 today, and every citizen (other than the super-rich and speculators) being robbed every time they switch on the light or fill up a tank, and with the citizen's life savings (e.g. via pensions / 401Ks) being destroyed by the high oil price which decimates the companies trying to produce physical products (rather than financial institutions which push paper money around on a screen, without producing anything of tangible value), IT IS TIME FOR THE GOVERNMENTS OF THE WORLD TO DO SOMETHING ACTIVE TO CONTROL THE OUT OF CONTROL MONEY MACHINE WHICH HAS ALREADY BROUGHT US THE DOT-COM CRASH AND THE PROPERTY / SUB-PRIME CATASTROPHE.
The ONLY way to snooker the speculators in the Oil and other Commodity markets, and to discover the true open market price of a commodity, is for the exchanges to impose a "liquidation policy" similar to the policy imposed after the silver price spike in 1980 when the Hunt Brothers sent silver to around $50 after they attempted to corner the market. In 1980, the "liquidation policy" immediately brought down the price of silver.
It is time for the governments of the world to stop cow-towing to the special interest groups, such as the Military Industrial Complex who benefit from high commodity prices at the expense of the wider economy by rob the citizens of the world.
A "liquidation policy" will prevent the opening of any new positions, and thus leaving the true purchasers who had bought in the future market to receive the commodity sold by either a true supplier or force the speculator who sold the contract to deliver the commodity, or effectively sell the long position into the market at such an attractive price that the purchaser would close out the position instead of taking delivery. This would thus be the true market value of the commodity -- being the price between a willing seller and a willing buyer.
The above would prevent speculators just rolling the paper futures contracts, and thus never taking delivery.
We would expect the oil price to half from the $143 reached today. We strongly recommend any commodity long position holders to seriously consider closing their positions now before the regulators are forced to act, by which time it would be too late to liquidate your positions at anywhere near the current levels. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED.
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The silver [is] mine, and the gold [is] mine, saith the LORD of hosts. Hag 2:8 [/b]
He created it. He controls it. He gave it to us for His use. Why did we turn from sound scriptural currency that PROTECTS us?
KJV Bible w/ Strong's Concordance: http://www.blueletterbible.org/
The book of The Hundreds: http://www.land.netonecom.net/tlp/ref/boh/bookOfTheHundreds_v4.1.pdf
The Two Republics: http://www.whitehorsemedia.com/docs/THE_TWO_REPUBLICS.pdf
Good reading: http://ecclesia.org/truth/government.html
A number of people are educated beyond, sometimes way beyond, their intelligence. - Tenbears
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fb101
Administrator
USA
2856 Posts |
Posted - 06/30/2008 : 11:02:54
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I comprehend and agree, with anything so critical it can cause food shortages and real suffering, all people not delivering or willing and able to accept delivery at their primary place of business should be barred from the markets.
I'm curious to know how the military makes out in this deal, though. I think we're all losing. |
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swusc
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
553 Posts |
Posted - 06/30/2008 : 14:35:06
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Honestly I don't see this helping to much. Maybe I am not thinking this through.
If there is 1 billion bbl, then if there is demand to go 1.5 billions long.... someone is 0.5 billion barrels short.
For every paper long, then there is a paper short. Now some of that shorting might be from producers that will cover their short with real product. Some of those longs will sell the contract, bc they didn't really want actual oil.
Rolling the contract should put downward pressure on the spot price/that month's future when they sell the contract, and upward pressure on the new contract when they reinvest the money. It seems like only new money would create upward price movements. I understand that they could have a small affect due to shorts not wanting to short until price jumps a lot, but I think cutting the price 30-50% is dreaming.
Part of the problem is likely the dollar. It isn't the drop in the exchange rate from 1/1/08 that is the problem, as I know it is only like 5%. It is the fact foreign countries aren't wanting to save their new incoming dollars. They are spending those dollars on oil, and the OPEC countries are keeping their reserves in dollars (no exchange rate affect). Basically the dollar fall isn't hitting the exchange rate... it is hitting the price of oil. Those countries don't want to hurt the exchange rate as they need to keep exporting to the U.S. Plus how much of their reserves do they want in U.S. dollars?
I really think the future market is much more noise than true part of the problem.
The problems are this:
1. Dollar exchange rate
2. Increase demand worldwide
3. supply problems (Oil is in countries with unstable and problem creating governments)
4. Iraq
5. U.S. mass current account deficit.
I am shocked that OPEC hasn't changed the quoting of oil to something other than dollars. I really believe that has been our saving grace so far in terms of the dollar staying so strong considering the trade imbalances. Think of another country that runs that much in the red for so many years and keeps such a strong currency?
Just some thoughts!
-SWUSC |
`Everybody is ignorant. Only on different subjects.' Will Rogers
"This is the shabby secret of the welfare statists' tirades against gold. Deficit spending is simply a scheme for the "hidden" confiscation of wealth. Gold stands in the way of this insidious process. It stands as a protector of property rights. If one grasps this, one has no difficulty in understanding the statists' antagonism toward the gold standard." Alan Greenspan, 1966. |
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misteroman
Administrator
USA
2565 Posts |
Posted - 07/01/2008 : 10:39:51
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^^^^ hence the unnecessary wars(sarcasm) that don't need to be fought.I truly do believe that Iraq war was fought over Iraq trying to switch to Euros and the WMD's were only made up to garner support for the war.Obviously I don't like war and pretty sure 99% of people don't either,but I guess sometimes it may have to be done.
Have to support our leaders and troops and Pray that it was the right thing to do as only a handful of people really know what is going on the World. |
Buying CU cents!!!! Paying 1.2 unlimited amounts wanted. Can pick up if near Ohio area. |
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swusc
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
553 Posts |
Posted - 07/01/2008 : 12:52:22
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A switch to Euros from USD for pricing of oil would destory the U.S. dollar. Just think about all the countries that would have to sell dollars to buy Euros to then buy oil. Right now they just use the dollars to buy oil. Unless the OPEC countries were willing to sell the Euros for dollars to support the dollar... the dollar would have a long term downtrend on top of the current problems.
That might be how we stop the exporting of jobs. If the Euro goes to 4 to 1 and the yen 45 to 1.... then we wont be buying imports anymore. That would also force countries to break the dollar pegs. That said, we will be so screwed that all the job protection people will be hung in the streets for saying a dropping dollar was a good idea. It might be new meaning to the wall street term buy when there is blood in the streets.
We all that said... how do we stop that drop? We don't have enough foreign currency reserves to support the dollar. (all we have the power to do is make it drop by printing money). So we could get the other countries in the world to inflate big time to balance out the drop. We could take over any OPEC country that talks about selling oil in non dollars. We could start raising rates to support the dollar (I am thinking you would need to take it 100-200 basis points above EURO rate though to bring it back down toward 1 to 1 ratio), but that would destory the economy. You would have a lot of smaller regional banks go belly up (the government would have to save anyone of size). It would causing anyone in variable debt to likely default. (an extra 6% on all that debt is to much for them to pay)
You know this has happened before. The whole world (pretty much) at the same time tried to drive down the value of their currency. Those economic problems aided the start of World War II. Hilter came to power out of economic destress.
Someone has to come up with an idea to support the dollar quickly. People don't want Ron Paul, so they better figure out how to teach the two front runners. |
`Everybody is ignorant. Only on different subjects.' Will Rogers
"This is the shabby secret of the welfare statists' tirades against gold. Deficit spending is simply a scheme for the "hidden" confiscation of wealth. Gold stands in the way of this insidious process. It stands as a protector of property rights. If one grasps this, one has no difficulty in understanding the statists' antagonism toward the gold standard." Alan Greenspan, 1966. |
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redneck
1000+ Penny Miser Member
1273 Posts |
Posted - 07/07/2008 : 08:43:39
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quote:
Someone has to come up with an idea to support the dollar quickly. People don't want Ron Paul, so they better figure out how to teach the two front runners.
People do want RON PAUL.
The Government who controls the Media do not.
People like Ron Paul and Ross Perot have what is called common sense. They would show to all, the injustices,bad policies and bad decisions made by our leaders for the benefit of a few.
The two "front runners" are part of a very very small special club.
Ron Paul and other like minded will never be allowed to participate in the race as long as that special club is around.
If you remember, Ross Perot embarrassed Bush and Clinton so badly in the debates that after the election they rewrote the rules concerning Third Party runs to exclude them from any future debates and in general to make as difficult as possible to run a viable Third Party campaign.
That is why Ron Paul did not, would not,run as a independent.He tried to beat them within their own rules.As a result he was made to look kooky and insignificant by the media.
There was only one problem.
He WON every debate poll by HUGH margins.
That and his massive fund raising by "ordinary people" shows that
The People do want him.
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swusc
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
553 Posts |
Posted - 07/07/2008 : 10:23:41
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That "massive" fund raising got him 4% of the republican vote. That isn't no where close to a majority. The government doesn't control the media unless you think the 1st is dead. I would say they have given the media control of the election process through campaign finance reform. There two choices won their party.
I would say few want Paul. Most people like to say they want smaller and less government, but what happens when something goes wrong... they blame the government. Katrina was/is a great example. Those people chose to live in a place that had the risk of hurricanes and was at or below sea level. The risk was known, but when the long shot happened... The government should have come in and saved the day. A Ron Paul government or a founding fathers government would have left the problem to the State and private citizens. The federal government wouldn't have been big enough to fix it. Personal responsible is pretty much dead when it comes to the masses. They don't ever think bad stuff happens due to their choices. I would say that almost everything bad that happens to you can be linked back to some choice you made.
Ron Paul would force that personal responsible on people if he could. People don't want that. People don't want to accept they are sinners. They don't want to accept anything that doesn't make the feel like that are good honest smart people.
I would say as a third party to the masses that most are trying to do the right thing, but far from perfect. They are mostly honest but only of average intellect. They are smart in their career fields, but most are not outside that circle of knowledge.
Most really don't want that small of a government. That is clear by how they voted.
-SWUSC |
`Everybody is ignorant. Only on different subjects.' Will Rogers
"This is the shabby secret of the welfare statists' tirades against gold. Deficit spending is simply a scheme for the "hidden" confiscation of wealth. Gold stands in the way of this insidious process. It stands as a protector of property rights. If one grasps this, one has no difficulty in understanding the statists' antagonism toward the gold standard." Alan Greenspan, 1966. |
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redneck
1000+ Penny Miser Member
1273 Posts |
Posted - 07/07/2008 : 13:22:28
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Most really don't want that small of a government. That is clear by how they voted.
It would seem to me that since he has won his seat in congress 10 times,that would indicate that people do want smaller government.
He puts in for money for his district because his constituents ask for it then votes against it,yet they vote him in again and again,and he retains his seat.The opposition even quit trying to beat him.
People are not truly informed about what is going on in our government and the world in general.
Remember the last time you heard the media talking about the Bill of Rights being gutted by Executive Orders asked for by this administration, passed by the Congress and Senate,and what it meant to you and I.
No...? Thats because the media didn't.
They treat us like mushrooms, feed $hit and kept in the dark......
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fb101
Administrator
USA
2856 Posts |
Posted - 07/07/2008 : 14:05:44
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Executive orders were also a favorite tool of the last administration to shove things down people's throats that they could NEVER get passed into law. (Spotted owls and public funding of private for-profit corporations like planned parenthood). And if you think those are bad, then how about laws being handed out by judges? Since when are they part of the law-making process?
The thing is corrupt on ALL sides. And the media is in on it, they tell you only what they want you to hear. One of my favorite examples was KYW news radio reporting how the "republican led" senate had squashed a certain anti-gun legislation. Mean old republicans. They left out the fact that the bill was so bad the vote was 98-2 against it. In subtle ways, the media pushes their own agenda. Did you know the EPA was forced in court years ago to back down from it's claims against second hand smoke and admit they flat-out-lied about it?, Aw, gee, the media forgot to mention that....
How often do you hear that back-door trading with Iraq by the french and Germans undermined our sanctions and eventually led to the war? (How? Big bad Saddam thought he had a couple of aces in his' sleeve which he didn't)
Isn't it amazing the same saps that 20 years ago belched out "Keep the gov't out of our wombs" are now the same saps that want the gov't to take over all healthcare?
This isn't about what we're for or against, it's about the fact that we're all getting shucked like spring corn, flat lied to by our gov AND the media, and so many saps keep looking to the gov't to solve their/our problems. - Grow up! Most of our problems are !}caused{! by our gov't.
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swusc
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
553 Posts |
Posted - 07/07/2008 : 14:19:57
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Grow up! Most of our problems are !}caused{! by our gov't.
That is so true. Yet the masses don't agree. What % of the people are for national healthcare? What % of the population would be in favor of doing away with welfare? What % of the population think the government should have done more in Katrina? What % is against gun ownership? The list goes on and on.
Just look at the % of people that voted for Clinton and Obama! You can't tell me those people are for small government. I guess you can say they are uninformed, but they voted their voice for bigger government either way. Shoot most of the Republicans weren't for smaller government either. The national budget increased almost 50% under Bush and the republican congress.
-SWUSC |
`Everybody is ignorant. Only on different subjects.' Will Rogers
"This is the shabby secret of the welfare statists' tirades against gold. Deficit spending is simply a scheme for the "hidden" confiscation of wealth. Gold stands in the way of this insidious process. It stands as a protector of property rights. If one grasps this, one has no difficulty in understanding the statists' antagonism toward the gold standard." Alan Greenspan, 1966. |
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A "Liquidation Policy" MUST be implemented
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