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kavajava
Penny Collector Member
USA
490 Posts |
 Posted - 06/26/2008 : 13:21:37
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What are your thoughts about the relative merits of buying 90% vs 40% halves?
What do you think the trade offs are between price, storage space, barter ability, sell ability, etc?
Thanks in advance.
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TenBears
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1021 Posts |
Posted - 06/26/2008 : 14:09:23
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This question depends upon your purpose in having the silver in the first place. If you are a numismatist, the silver content should not make much of a difference to you. Then too, if you are a numismatist, I doubt that you will have a large "hoard" of junk silver.
For hoarding purposes, I prefer the 90%. First of all, you can store more silver with 90% coins. Second, for survival purposes, 90% is much more recognizable as silver than the 40% is. A simple edge check tells the tale in this regard. Some 40% even looks like it could be dirty clad. |
"Rich," the Old Man said dreamily, "is not baying after what you can't have. Rich is having the time to do what you want to do. Rich is a little whiskey to drink and some food to eat and a roof over your head and a fish pole and a boat and a gun and a dollar for a box of shells. Rich is not owing any money to anybody, and not spending what you haven't got." Robert Ruark
there are too wild Indians...
there are too wild Indians...
there are too wild Indians...-----still taunted
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kavajava
Penny Collector Member
USA
490 Posts |
Posted - 06/26/2008 : 14:16:01
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Yep---the storage space and recognizability are definitely two reasons I have stuck to 90% so far.
What about the fact that 40% is usually cheaper? Where do you think the trade off would be where 40% becomes a good option? 90% of spot, 80%, 70?
Also--I guess I should have added a spot for 80% Canadian as another option. |
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TenBears
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1021 Posts |
Posted - 06/26/2008 : 14:29:07
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40% is cheaper? At least where I trade, the prices are the same -- meaning the dealer charges me a few points over silver spot for junk silver. It does not matter whether is is 40% or not. Frankly, if I could get 40% cheaper than I could 90%, I might go with the 40%. Being cheaper did not figure into my thoughts. My dealer even sells me Franklins the same as other junk. But, I have to pay a bit of a premium if I want Walkers.
I have not seen any 80% Canadian where I buy my junk silver. Being in the US, I would not buy much, if any, of Canadian junk silver. I would rather have the coin of the realm, so to speak, rather than foreign currency if SHTF. If I was in Canada, my junk silver would be Canadian. |
"Rich," the Old Man said dreamily, "is not baying after what you can't have. Rich is having the time to do what you want to do. Rich is a little whiskey to drink and some food to eat and a roof over your head and a fish pole and a boat and a gun and a dollar for a box of shells. Rich is not owing any money to anybody, and not spending what you haven't got." Robert Ruark
there are too wild Indians...
there are too wild Indians...
there are too wild Indians...-----still taunted
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kavajava
Penny Collector Member
USA
490 Posts |
Posted - 06/26/2008 : 14:56:08
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I agree that if the prices are the same, 90% is the way to go.
Good point about the coin of the realm--although you can often pick up 80% on eBay for a bit less than spot.
There is also a particular foreign silver coin that has about 1/3 ASW that I have been able to pick up on ebay for as little as $2 delivered. When I can get them for so far under spot I am more likely to be OK with the fact that it is not the coin of the realm.
As of now my plan is to sell some of the foreign stuff that I have into strength in the next couple years, and hold onto the 90% US coins. (Depends on when TSHTF). |
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jadedragon
Administrator
Canada
3788 Posts |
Posted - 06/27/2008 : 00:41:57
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I read an article suggesting that 40% is better because the downside is more protected. Say silver drops to the point that the 40% half is worth less then 50 cents in silver, you can still use it as 50 cents of money. That 90% coin has a lot farther to drop in silver price before the face value exceeds the silver value. So when you buy 40% halfs you have a little insurance policy built in.
A similar agrument can be made for buying Silver Maple Leafs with a $5 face compared to the Silver Eagles at $1 face. eThe Canadian has a built in floor for silver of $5 an ounce (more meaningful when silver was at $6.5 rather then $17). The market seems to give a consistant premium to the Maple Leafs largely because of this face value differance.
Now the downside is it takes extra storage space (but come on, who really runs out of silver storage space? If you run out of space you can clearly afford another spot to store it in.) I more realistic downside is lack of recogniton, but again, we all have access to internet info, coin books etc to show someone the value. I saw a suggestion one could trade with silver plated spoons... so I'm thinking 40% silver is always sellable. |
“The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” – George Bernard Shaw.
Why Copper Bullion ~~~ Interview with Silver Bullion Producer Market Harmony
Passive Income blog |
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Nickelless
Administrator
USA
5580 Posts |
Posted - 06/27/2008 : 05:30:26
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quote:
Originally posted by legacypac
Now the downside is it takes extra storage space (but come on, who really runs out of silver storage space? If you run out of space you can clearly afford another spot to store it in.) I more realistic downside is lack of recogniton, but again, we all have access to internet info, coin books etc to show someone the value. I saw a suggestion one could trade with silver plated spoons... so I'm thinking 40% silver is always sellable.
I think that given the amount of value in one cubit foot of .999 silver--or for the sake of argument, 2.5 cubic feet of 40% silver--the argument that "silver is too bulky" is absolute nonsense. I won't repost the article here, but I think David Morgan makes excellent points about the bargain that silver really is in terms of storage space:
You must be logged in to see this link.
And think about it, who couldn't carve out a 1 foot cube of space to store their silver? If I have 1 cubic foot of something that valuable, you'd better believe I'm going to make room for it!
EDIT: The comment by Jim B. on David Morgan's blog really irked me, so I thought I'd throw in my two copper cents. I posted it under my e-mail name Hautian Refugee:
You must be logged in to see this link. |
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Edited by - Nickelless on 06/27/2008 05:32:52 |
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Bluegill
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1964 Posts |
Posted - 06/27/2008 : 08:10:27
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TenBears mentioned coin of the realm. I agree about 90%. If SHTF happens and we are using the metal content of coins as money instead of the face value stamped on them, I think Canadian coins will be the exception. Especially along the border states.
It is already in circulation, everybody is familier with it. It looks like U.S. coins and has the same fractional values of the issuers base denomination.
When people learn that pre-80 Canadian pennies have more copper in them than U.S. pennies (an actual 1/10 troy ounce of Cu, not total weight like the U.S.), I don't think it will be an issue at all anymore. Same thing with the nickels.
With junk silver people will learn real fast in a SHTF situation that Canadian coins although different percentages will have buying power. People will just adjust the quantity for a purchase the same way they would for a 40% or a 90% halve.
I can get Candian silver in the wild easier than U.S. That suits me just fine... I like Canadian pennies too... And nickels...
legacypac, I too feel the same way about silver Mapleleafs for the same reasons. I am getting ready to make a small purchase of silver and am leaning towards the Mapleleafs vs the AE's. I am not interested in numismatic value for this kind of a purchase.
IMHO, the RCM is a respected world class operation. The bench mark for everyone else (including the U.S. mint) to measure themselves against. Their bullion coins are always of the highest purity, I would have no problem owning their coins.
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Bluegill
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1964 Posts |
Posted - 06/27/2008 : 08:14:32
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quote:
Originally posted by kavajava
What are your thoughts about the relative merits of buying 90% vs 40% halves?
What do you think the trade offs are between price, storage space, barter ability, sell ability, etc?
Thanks in advance.
I don't think it will really matter. What ever you can get the easiest. Silver is silver, as long as it is a trustable and known quantity and purity.
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kavajava
Penny Collector Member
USA
490 Posts |
Posted - 06/27/2008 : 09:40:14
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quote:
I think that given the amount of value in one cubit foot of .999 silver--or for the sake of argument, 2.5 cubic feet of 40% silver--the argument that "silver is too bulky" is absolute nonsense. I won't repost the article here, but I think David Morgan makes excellent points about the bargain that silver really is in terms of storage space:
You must be logged in to see this link.
And think about it, who couldn't carve out a 1 foot cube of space to store their silver? If I have 1 cubic foot of something that valuable, you'd better believe I'm going to make room for it!
Nickelless--great article by Morgan--thanks for the link.
I do think that there are different scenarios when TSHTF when bulkiness WILL be a factor--it just all depends on how much S hits the F. If things don't get really bad, and there is the second greater depression and you are able to stay in your house, then absolutely, who cannot carve out a cubic foot to store silver (especially amongst the folks on this forum who have all that bulky copper)
BUT--if things get very, very bad, and you turn into a refugee and need to go on the run--then the less bulk the better (which means gold, but that is kind of off topic and wasn't in my original question--maybe it should have been). |
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kavajava
Penny Collector Member
USA
490 Posts |
Posted - 06/27/2008 : 09:46:01
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quote:
Originally posted by legacypac
I read an article suggesting that 40% is better because the downside is more protected. Say silver drops to the point that the 40% half is worth less then 50 cents in silver, you can still use it as 50 cents of money. That 90% coin has a lot farther to drop in silver price before the face value exceeds the silver value. So when you buy 40% halfs you have a little insurance policy built in.
A similar agrument can be made for buying Silver Maple Leafs with a $5 face compared to the Silver Eagles at $1 face. eThe Canadian has a built in floor for silver of $5 an ounce (more meaningful when silver was at $6.5 rather then $17). The market seems to give a consistant premium to the Maple Leafs largely because of this face value differance.
Excellent point legacypac...I remember when not too terribly long ago bags of 40% were selling around $1450 and that was one of the sales points then...a good insurance policy--especially when you can easily lose 90% or more on some of the more volatile gold mining stocks. |
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kavajava
Penny Collector Member
USA
490 Posts |
Posted - 06/27/2008 : 09:52:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Bluegill
legacypac, I too feel the same way about silver Mapleleafs for the same reasons. I am getting ready to make a small purchase of silver and am leaning towards the Mapleleafs vs the AE's. I am not interested in numismatic value for this kind of a purchase.
IMHO, the RCM is a respected world class operation. The bench mark for everyone else (including the U.S. mint) to measure themselves against. Their bullion coins are always of the highest purity, I would have no problem owning their coins.
Bluegill--you make many excellent points! Keep in mind that Maples are also .9999 pure--ASE "only" .999. The RCM is definitely top quality.
How often do you find Canadian silver in the wild? |
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jadedragon
Administrator
Canada
3788 Posts |
Posted - 06/27/2008 : 12:15:45
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quote:
Originally posted by kavajava
quote:
Originally posted by Bluegill
legacypac, I too feel the same way about silver Mapleleafs for the same reasons. I am getting ready to make a small purchase of silver and am leaning towards the Mapleleafs vs the AE's. I am not interested in numismatic value for this kind of a purchase.
IMHO, the RCM is a respected world class operation. The bench mark for everyone else (including the U.S. mint) to measure themselves against. Their bullion coins are always of the highest purity, I would have no problem owning their coins.
Bluegill--you make many excellent points! Keep in mind that Maples are also .9999 pure--ASE "only" .999. The RCM is definitely top quality.
Couldn't have said it better myself... makes me proud to be a Canadian :) Plus those silver maple leafs have a lot of flat shiny pretty mirrorlike surface on them :) Best looking coins around IMHO.
The vast majority of my silver coin hoard (such as it is) is now Canadian - 80%/50% and I own about 20 Silver Maple Leafs along with various other coins and items.
I also have a growing Canadian Pure Nickel, CuNi and Cu Penny collection. Oh and stacks of unrolled steel and zinc coins (anyone want to buy those bulk?)
5-15% of the smaller value coin circulating in my part of Canada is American, so I am also building up decent a US Nickel and US Cu Penny hoard just from sorting Canadian rolls. |
“The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” – George Bernard Shaw.
Why Copper Bullion ~~~ Interview with Silver Bullion Producer Market Harmony
Passive Income blog |
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mooski
Penny Sorter Member
USA
61 Posts |
Posted - 06/30/2008 : 01:53:37
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Hi,
I would shy away from 40% Ag for the simple fact that people don't 'know' those coins are 40% silver. But bring out a 1964 quarter, and everyone's eyes light up.
I also shy away from ASE's and silver Maple Leafs because you pay too much of a premium for the silver. You can usually find Mexican Libertads at the regular round rate (spot +.50-.75) and they are just as nice as their American or Canadian counterparts.
(But the Canadian Gold Maple Leaf with the hologram? That makes me drool... I like bright, shiny objects! I like bright, shiny objects! )
-M |
Sorting and hoarding in Seattle, WA |
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Relative merits of 40% vs 90% junk silver
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