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jadedragon
Administrator
Canada
3788 Posts |
 Posted - 05/20/2008 : 20:44:08
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It is an older article (Published 08/4/2007) but perhaps the sign of things to come. The real threat to this little hobby might not be the Government, but the Greens:
You must be logged in to see this link.
Quoted completely right here by me (for strictly non-commercial purposes for the purposes of inspiring comment.
"Hoarding loose change - a green no-no?
A reader pointed out to me today that hoarding coins, something that most of us do I guess, has a negative impact on the environment. I'd never really given it any thought, but it was certainly an interesting point.
Generally speaking, coins have a very long functional life span compared to notes - around 30 years according to the United States Mint. When we hoard coins, it prevents them from being in circulation, so more coins need to be minted to make up for the shortfall - which means more metal and energy is consumed.
A few bucks worth of loose change here and a few bucks there couldn't really add up to all that much could it? Curiosity piqued, I decided to look into it a little more.
According to the research I was able to do, in Ireland, approximately $60 million of coins are being hoarded. In the UK it's somewhere in the region of three quarters of a billion dollars worth! I wasn't able to locate hoarding estimations in other nations, but in some countries it's become a massive problem. India is currently suffering a critical shortage of coins; to the point that shopkeepers are resorting to getting change from street beggars in order to keep their businesses running.
To get some idea of how much metal is needed to keep coins at appropriate levels for circulation, here's some statistics from the United States Mint for January 2007 through June 2007 coin production, plus some of my own metal tonnage estimations:
1c - Copper Plated Zinc - 4700.40 million - 2.500 g = ~ 11750 tons
5c - Cupro-Nickel - 792.96 million - 5.000 g = ~ 3960 tons
10c - Cupro-Nickel - 1269.00 million - 2.268 g = ~ 3400 tons
25c - Cupro-Nickel - 1559.44 million - 5.670 g = ~ 8839 tons
50c - Cupro-Nickel - 4.80 million - 11.340 g = ~ 45 tons
Total - nearly 28,000 tons of coin metal; just for the USA, just for 6 months - wow!
How much of the above metal is reclaimed material vs. new metal or the level of production is directly attributable to making up for coin hoarding related shortfall, I really have no idea.
For every ton of nickel or copper mined, 400-600 tonnes of waste material is produced. Many thousands of acres of landscapes and waterways have been ruined by the nickel and copper mining industry. Refining and smelting metals is also energy intensive and various environmental toxins are created in the process; for example, nickel sulfide (carcinogenic) and nickel carbonyl (extremely toxic gas).
So there's our green tip for the day - don't hoard loose change, keep the coins in circulation to lessen demand for new metal and reduce energy consumption required to produce new coins. Every little bit helps I guess! :)."
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“The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” – George Bernard Shaw.
Why Copper Bullion ~~~ Interview with Silver Bullion Producer Market Harmony
Passive Income blog |
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No82s
Penny Pincher Member
USA
198 Posts |
Posted - 05/20/2008 : 21:39:43
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| IMHO. The green thing is basically a sales gimmick. Yes people want to do whats right but when it comes down to it nobody really buys that way unless it is economically feasible to do so or they have extra cash and want to "feel" green. I have had people try to sell me green this and green that, being an engineer I ask a few questions. Most people can't answer them and those that can, once we talk agree with me. Example: someone tried to sell me a green dust cloth, save the planet as usual. When I ask what it was made of I found out it was polyester. Whats green about that? I'm told that because it picks up sooo much dust without having to use dust spray that it is indeed green. BS. Don't let the greens fool you. Its all about the cash. |
The difference between an optimist and a pessimist is that the pessimist is better informed. |
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Delawhere Jack
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1680 Posts |
Posted - 05/20/2008 : 22:40:02
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Green is the new RED. Useful idiots being used as pawns to take down the west.
GIVE THEM NO QUARTER!
(I'm on a roll tonight ) |
"Educate and inform the whole mass of the people... They are the only sure reliance for the preservation of our liberty." Thomas Jefferson
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moboman
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
2555 Posts |
Posted - 05/20/2008 : 22:43:42
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I like the first comment to the article.
"Who knew? As I'm reading this article I'm looking at my big coin bowl full of pennies and thinking, "Now HOW can I get rid of all these pennies?" LOL I guess it's off to the bank with me. I truly had no idea that "coin hoarding" had SUCH a negative impact on our Mother Earth. Thanks for the information!"
NOOOOOOOOO dont go to the bank, I'll buy them! |
"99% of all lawyers give the rest of them a bad name" 
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nckt
Penny Collector Member
USA
304 Posts |
Posted - 05/20/2008 : 22:55:34
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| people through pennies on the ground any way and no one cares about them, so who cares if a few of us hoard them. |
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HoardCopperByTheTon
Administrator
USA
6807 Posts |
Posted - 05/21/2008 : 00:39:17
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It actually depends on what you hoard. If you hoard pennies and nickels, like most of us on this board do.. you are bad. If you hoard dimes and quarters you are actually helping the ecomomy because the government makes seignorage on all those replacement coins.  |
If your percentages are low.. just sort more. If your percentages are high.. just sort more.
Now selling Copper pennies. 1.6x plus shipping. Limited amounts available. |
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hector6man
Penny Pincher Member
USA
129 Posts |
Posted - 05/21/2008 : 01:18:15
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| I have a lot of opinions about this so I'm not going to say anything! |
"Ninety-nine percent of the failures come from people who have the habit of making excuses." -George Washington
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jadedragon
Administrator
Canada
3788 Posts |
Posted - 05/21/2008 : 01:38:50
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According to the article hoarding your coins is going to cause more energy consumption, mining and pollution. It follows that the more you hoard the more evil environment killer you are! That is the green perspective. Heck you are liking going to help destroy the world!!!
Now on the other hand, looking at it from an economic perspective, every time you buy a coin and don't send it out again you are helping create jobs in the mines, at the mint, at Brinks, at the bank etc., and then eventually jobs to transport them and melt them. Someone has to replace all those coins we are stacking up. Better yet most of those jobs are good uld American/Canadian union jobs, and are not outsourced overseas (mining the possible exception).
So I say go ahead and kill the environment but save the economy by "consuming" coins.
And I think the government has it figured out they can make big bucks putting out millions and millions of quarters and dollars with fancy designs that will never be worth anything but face but that every one will throw in a jar because they look cool and they might be worth something someday (or worth extra right now if you believe what some say on TV or ebay). |
“The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” – George Bernard Shaw.
Why Copper Bullion ~~~ Interview with Silver Bullion Producer Market Harmony
Passive Income blog |
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eharrison
Penny Pincher Member
USA
234 Posts |
Posted - 05/21/2008 : 02:40:16
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| IMHO more energy is used by tards who drive hummers and families who take 4 seperate cars when they go out. Maybe this is me being blind in defence of my hobby but get real. Burning fossil fules ok, but hoarding coins................blah blah blah. |
Freedom is popular
That's why I voted
Ron Paul! |
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tmaring
Penny Collector Member
USA
302 Posts |
Posted - 05/21/2008 : 09:09:12
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We are arguing about several different things and labeling several different attitudes as this or that. "Green" means different things to different people.
I am an environmentalist, because I understand that if we destroy the environment, we destroy ourselves. Sustainability is the final determinant. Either we tranform our society and our economy into a sustainable form, or we follow Rome, Greece, Easter Island, and several other cultures that overdrew on their environmental accounts into oblivion.
There is no question that our system is currently on an unsustainable path. Therefore TSHF is coming... there is no way to avoid it. How and when it comes are questions, but THAT it will come is inevitable. If we believe that fiat currency is doomed to fail and that hard currency is the only way for a society to function in the long run, then the coins that we hold will eventually become the basis for a hard currency that will help us rebuild after TSHF.
My thesis therefore is as follows: To be truly "green" is to work towards the greatest good for the greatest number for the greatest length of time. In recognition that only a hard currency will promote that goal, we sacrifice our own current utility in favor of investing in storing metals towards that end. Our efforts spur the minting of more coins. Even with the tonnages mentioned, there is not enough coin to suffice if paper and plastic were demonetized, as they surely will be come the crash. Therefore hoarding coins is as green as it gets! |
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knibloe
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1066 Posts |
Posted - 05/21/2008 : 19:45:06
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I love the outdoors. I work in the agricultural community and do some small farming on the side. That said, the "go green" crowd don't have a clue as to how the natural world works. For all their "love" of the planet, they don't give it any credit. To think that we can destroy the world is very niave. Our planet has a remarkable abliity to heal itself. Look at Mt St Helens. The forests are back, the snow cap is back, few would know it exploded. Look at the Yucatan in Mexico. The Mayans had that clear cut and dotted with cities. It is a dense jungle today. If we mess it up, nature will heal it if left alone.
I am for protecting the planet, but "going green" is not going to make a difference. It is just another financial drag on the American economy. |
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starwarsgeek171
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
651 Posts |
Posted - 05/21/2008 : 20:17:28
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| Thanks for being a voice of reason, tmarring. |
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moboman
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
2555 Posts |
Posted - 05/21/2008 : 20:34:23
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quote:
Originally posted by knibloe
I am for protecting the planet, but "going green" is not going to make a difference. It is just another financial drag on the American economy.
I dont like how our government has no money and then people want the government to start shelling out money for research, for investing in companies, and for anything else associated with "going green". Nancy Pelosi and the other liberals can preach all they want about going green and caring about the environment, but I dont want my own private jet like she does. Or like teddy Kennedy not wanting to have wind turbines 7 miles from the shore of his Nantucket home. It's these rich liberals that are actually killing the environment, and they are the ones that claim to want to save it.  |
"99% of all lawyers give the rest of them a bad name"
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fb101
Administrator
USA
2856 Posts |
Posted - 05/21/2008 : 21:03:09
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I just figured this out. The more coins I hoard, the less cubic feet of space I have to heat and cool. So I save on energy and help with global warming by hoarding.
Save the planet! Hoard PM! |
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tmaring
Penny Collector Member
USA
302 Posts |
Posted - 05/21/2008 : 21:13:03
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quote:
Originally posted by knibloe... For all their "love" of the planet, they don't give it any credit. To think that we can destroy the world is very niave. Our planet has a remarkable abliity to heal itself...
I think you're looking with a canted viewpoint. Yes, the earth can heal itself, and we cannot truly "destroy the world". However, we very possibly CAN destroy the ability of the earth to provide humankind with a nice place to live. The earth can heal itself... by getting rid of US... and if we are foolish enough to goad it into that radical action it may very well do so.
Sustainability means learning that there are limits and that they must be respected.
It is true that many "greens" are relatively uneducated and don't really understand the dynamics of the global systems involved. But they DO understand the sweep of history, and that the current path of our society cannot be sustained for any great length of time. They would like the great grandchildren of their own great grandchildren to live in a world worth living in, and they see the corporate and military powers of our time poised to rape the world for the last bits of power and pleasure. We are living in a classic example of Garrett Hardin's "Tragedy of the Commons". We all recognize that limitations must be recognized for the common good, yet we are unwilling to accept those limits for ourselves if all others do not do so first. Then we race to gather the last fruits of the commons, ruining their ability to regenerate. We've done it with forests, with fish, with water, and now with air. The Roman Empire collapsed when it stripped the land of fuel-wood. We are nearing our own collapse.
Yes the earth will heal, but if we mean to be here to see it we will have to HELP... not hinder the process.
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moboman
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
2555 Posts |
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jadedragon
Administrator
Canada
3788 Posts |
Posted - 05/23/2008 : 15:38:43
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Assuming these numbers are true (as found in the article I posted)...
January 2007 through June 2007 coin production from the mint:
1c - Copper Plated Zinc - 4700.40 million - 2.500 g = ~ 11750 tons = about 2000 tons a month
Do you think that the members here have a collective 2000 tons of pennies? If we turned them all back into circulation, would the mint stop making pennies for 1 month? |
“The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” – George Bernard Shaw.
Why Copper Bullion ~~~ Interview with Silver Bullion Producer Market Harmony
Passive Income blog |
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jadedragon
Administrator
Canada
3788 Posts |
Posted - 06/01/2008 : 13:32:33
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Fun coin facts from You must be logged in to see this link. with my comments:
-More than $10 billion in loose change sits idle in American households
Guess we have some sorting to do still. Better get a Ryedale.
-78% of Americans say they would make more of an effort to reuse their change if they knew it would help the environment
And we all love our mother, and like apple pie. So why don't they just deliver all that coin to our source banks?
-The penny contains the least amount of copper of all U.S. coins produced
Cause it is made of zinc duh!
-It would take more than 197 billion stacked nickels to reach the moon
My new goal! But how am I going to stack them?
-During the colonial days, people used coins from around the world. The quarter is called two bits because the Spanish milled dollars were easily cut apart into equal ”bits” of 8 pieces; two bits equaled 2/8th or a quarter of a dollar
Today Americans just wish they could use Loonies, Euros and Yen as the greenback slides against everything else.
-The first coin issued in the United States was a silver dollar
And it went downhill from there
-84 percent of females and 74 percent of males would still pick up a penny off the ground*
I say this is not true. More like 84% and 74% will throw a penny away onto the ground, or into a penny cup by a till.
-In the late 1800s, the Mint issued two-cent and three-cent coins
Also the Mint issued coins between the 1800's and 1982 called pennies that became worth two and three cents.
The mint continues to issue new coins called dollars that are worth 2 to 3 cents each too.
-Edmond Knowles of Flomaton, Alabama, holds the current record for most pennies processed, totalling $13,084.59
Not real sure what this means - but they have definately not heard of HCBTT! |
“The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” – George Bernard Shaw.
Why Copper Bullion ~~~ Interview with Silver Bullion Producer Market Harmony
Passive Income blog |
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kavajava
Penny Collector Member
USA
490 Posts |
Posted - 07/03/2008 : 00:11:11
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quote:
Originally posted by fb101
I just figured this out. The more coins I hoard, the less cubic feet of space I have to heat and cool. So I save on energy and help with global warming by hoarding.
Save the planet! Hoard PM!
I think the metal stores energy too--making it even more energy efficient. |
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Gr33nday43
New Member
Uzbekistan
10 Posts |
Posted - 07/03/2008 : 00:35:42
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| That is BS. Everything uses energy and produces harmful bi-products! TV's, computers, toasters, microwaves, cars, airplanes, pretty much everything that Americans use in their daily lives! Also, many activities are bad for the environment! The greens are idiots, coin hoarding is not "killing" the environment like the say it is. |
Edited by - Gr33nday43 on 07/03/2008 00:37:34 |
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Ardent Listener
Administrator
USA
4841 Posts |
Posted - 07/03/2008 : 02:49:49
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| This goes to show just how "Big Brother" the green movement can become. Kind of like PETA did. |
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Think positive. |
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Flbandit
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
851 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2008 : 19:34:48
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| I work at a small flavor and fragrance ingredient company. We are currently in the thick of "Green" and "Organic" issues. So far the only real difference I can see is it costs more. |
Are you throwing that out? |
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Green Threat and Questionable Statistics
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