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Ardent Listener
Administrator
USA
4841 Posts |
 Posted - 03/12/2008 : 19:39:47
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Ahead of the Bell: Metals in US Coins
Nickels and pennies cost twice as much to make as they're worth, and some lawmakers say its time to get a handle on the price of pocket change.
One way to do that is to use cheaper materials, including steel, in the coins' composition. That's just one proposal up for discussion Tuesday as a House Financial Services subcommittee examines ways to save taxpaper dollars through cheaper coins.
With prices of copper, nickel and zinc soaring since 2003 amid a worldwide commodities boom, the costs of making the one- and five-cent coins has surpassed their face values.
The government spends nearly 2 cents to forge a penny, which is made of copper-plated zinc, and 10 cents to make a nickel, which is composed of 75 percent copper and 25 percent nickel.
U.S. lawmakers last year introduced legislation that would give the Treasury Department the power to decide -- without congressional approval -- the type of metals used for all coins, a move that they say could save taxpayers more than $100 million annually.
The bill indicates that steel could be an option in making a penny, at least for an interim period. Steel is used to make coins in other countries, including Canada and the United Kingdom, and is about five times cheaper than zinc.
Edmund C. Moy, director of the U.S. Mint, will be among several witnesses appearing before the Domestic and International Monetary Policy, Trade, and Technology subcommittee.
Other witnesses include: Michael J. Brown, vice president of U.S. public affairs of Canadian mining company Barrick Gold Corp.; Jay W. Johnson, a former congressman from Wisconsin and an ex-U.S. Mint director during the Clinton administration and Richard M. Geerdes, president and chief executive of the National Automatic Merchandising Association, the lobbying group for the food and refreshment vending industry. NAMA's members include Pepsico Inc., Kraft Foods Inc. and Hershey Co.
The hearing is scheduled for 2:30 p.m.
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Think positive. |
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WilliamC
Penny Collector Member
USA
471 Posts |
Posted - 03/12/2008 : 19:46:37
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Here's the fear, right out in the mainstream media.
Get the copper while we can, once the decision is made it's gonna go fast!
They might as well make the coins out of plastic for all the intrinsic value they will have. |
Sorting In Northwest Mississippi |
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Ryedale
Administrator
USA
523 Posts |
 Posted - 03/12/2008 : 19:55:53
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| Well the Ryedales will be working overtime then....just like with Canadian pennies, there will be 3 metals to sort for. We'll all regret dumping all this zinc someday, but it's necessary to get the copper packed away. |
Ryedale
GET YOUR DRI-SLIDE FROM IRONBRAID
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Used with permission from Ironbraid.
Quote
"The real art of conversation is not only to say the right thing at the right place, but to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the most tempting moment."
— Dorothy Neville-Rolfe |
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WilliamC
Penny Collector Member
USA
471 Posts |
Posted - 03/12/2008 : 20:01:03
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Heaven help us if the price of zinc goes up enough to warrant hoarding it!
I know zinc is a commodity metal in it's own right but for the dollar to sink so low that it becomes worthwhile to hold onto, that's scary.
Come to think of it, it really is scary to think about how bad inflation can get if the economy goes South on us in a big way.
1980's Argentina anyone? |
Sorting In Northwest Mississippi |
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Ardent Listener
Administrator
USA
4841 Posts |
Posted - 03/12/2008 : 20:31:13
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quote:
Originally posted by WilliamC
Heaven help us if the price of zinc goes up enough to warrant hoarding it!
I know zinc is a commodity metal in it's own right but for the dollar to sink so low that it becomes worthwhile to hold onto, that's scary.
Come to think of it, it really is scary to think about how bad inflation can get if the economy goes South on us in a big way.
1980's Argentina anyone?
The zinc cent has already been over 100% melt. Someone from another site who was in the metal recovery business melted zinc cents for about three weeks when zinc prices peaked. I think he said it was over $1.80 a pound then. This was all prior to the melt ban of course. |
Realcent.forumco.com disclosure. Please read.
All posts either by the members, moderators, and the administration of http://realcent.forumco.com are for your edification and amusement only. It is not the intent of realcent.forumco.com or its host to provide investment, medical, matrimonial, legal, security or tax advice and nothing posted here should be considered to be so. All rights reserved.
Think positive. |
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wheeler_dealer
Penny Collector Member
USA
402 Posts |
Posted - 03/12/2008 : 23:53:22
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| Checking the price of Zinc today it was at current price of $1.166 per pound. The governments production costs are what make it so expensive. Yes, steel is a possibility again, but can you imagine how long the steel pennies would last before they rust. Look back to the 1943 steel penny the only ones that survived that are usable are the uncirculated ones and those ones are highly collectible. As most on the forum here know if the government wants to save money they can reduce mintage and use some of the tens of millions of zincs already circulating. They can have mine no questions asked. |
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misteroman
Administrator
USA
2565 Posts |
Posted - 03/13/2008 : 00:05:03
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For the above reason I don't think they will never go to steal.They will just deal with the zinc price until they phase them out someday.
Derek |
Buying CU cents!!!! Paying 1.2 unlimited amounts wanted. Can pick up if near Ohio area. |
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El Dee
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
547 Posts |
Posted - 03/13/2008 : 09:20:26
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My understanding is that the blanks for 1943 steelies were punched from galvanized sheet.
As such, the edges were unprotected and rusted quickly. |
Trust the government? Ask an Indian. |
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Cerulean
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
993 Posts |
Posted - 03/13/2008 : 13:13:39
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| Any changes to the penny, either composition change or demonitization, would first require the gov'ment to admit there is an inflation problem in America. As long as they actively deny the true extent of inflation here, the penny will not change. |
Sorting Map
2010 First Finds Contest
Are you a Buffalo Hunter?
Wanna take seignorage away from the Fed? Spend *any* coins!
We cannot afford this government.
Cerulean's Standing Offer: $3/lb shipped for foreign coins |
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eharrison
Penny Pincher Member
USA
234 Posts |
Posted - 03/13/2008 : 21:32:35
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| is there really a need for pennies to be produced every year? Is it used for sales to banks? Pretty sure they don't make FRNs every year so why cents? |
Freedom is popular
That's why I voted
Ron Paul! |
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Cerulean
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
993 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2008 : 08:18:19
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quote:
Originally posted by eharrison
is there really a need for pennies to be produced every year? Is it used for sales to banks? Pretty sure they don't make FRNs every year so why cents?
They make FRNs all the time. Unlike coins, bills are dated for when the design was approved, not the year they were printed. A $1 dated 2003A could have been printed in anytime 2003-2006. If the design doesn't change, neither does the date.
Coins are minted to meet demand from banks. There is enough demand each year. |
Sorting Map
2010 First Finds Contest
Are you a Buffalo Hunter?
Wanna take seignorage away from the Fed? Spend *any* coins!
We cannot afford this government.
Cerulean's Standing Offer: $3/lb shipped for foreign coins |
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eharrison
Penny Pincher Member
USA
234 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2008 : 12:08:13
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| Thanks, didn't know that about the FRNs. Now I know. :) |
Freedom is popular
That's why I voted
Ron Paul! |
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wolvesdad
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
2164 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2008 : 12:31:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Cerulean
Any changes to the penny, either composition change or demonitization, would first require the gov'ment to admit there is an inflation problem in America. As long as they actively deny the true extent of inflation here, the penny will not change.
I would disagree... Propaganda has and will continue to be the Fed's friend. "The commodities are just up right now on investor's speculation, it is unprecidented(spelling?)."
"With the price of metals going up we have to make this change in order to save the Taxpayers billions over the next 10 years."
My made-up quotes, but that is all they'll say. ANd the general uneducated public will believe it. They don't have to admit inflation.....though, we all know______
Sad day.
But hey, my copper stash is getting bigger! |
"May your percentages ever increase!" |
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mickeyman
Penny Pincher Member
Canada
243 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2008 : 13:33:13
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| Canadian coins are mainly steel now. But the dimes, quarters and nickels are coated with nickel, and the pennies are coated with copper. This prevents rust, but with the appropriate tool you can carve away portions of the coating, exposing the underlying steel to rust. One of my projects now is to remove the coating over the Queen's eyes on the coins, so as they rust, it looks like the Queen is crying. This way she can express her displeasure over being on a debased coin. |
Not all who wander are lost. |
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aboxaweek
Penny Collector Member
USA
326 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2008 : 15:56:26
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What is the difference between a 2003a and a 2003 dollar bill?
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*HUCKABEE*
___08'____
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wheeler_dealer
Penny Collector Member
USA
402 Posts |
Posted - 03/16/2008 : 08:00:17
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Regarding the production of $$$$. the U.S. gov't exports inflation to keep the economy going. Look at the news China , Japan, India etc, all have trillions of U.S. dollars in reserve. There are only two existing denominations of U.S $ that have any monetary value (penny and nickel) because of their metal content. The Gov't makes (not profit directly) $ when they print or coins currency into circulation. This has many advantages, keeps a large portion of economy employed (look at all the direct and indirect jobs because of it.(mint workers, banks, security guards printers, miners,etc,etc...).
One of the reasons that they haven't changed or eliminated circulating coinage is because of the huge impact it would have on the economy. What would happen if they shut down all those mines. Every small town around them hurt, no mines no need for all the equipment more jobs lost more local economic pain.
Consider how little it cost to print a dead presidents portrait on a piece of paper. If it were legal why sort pennies. Look at the profit on a Ben Franklin.
Will they change the metal content? Yes, probably. Why, because the demand and uses for nickel and copper are more greater for other things. We(U.S.)will and are going to rebuild our Military Industrial Complex and this requires heavy use of these metals and the manufacturers want these metals at controlled prices, with demand so high that wont happen.
Inflation is the name of the game for U.S. gov't, they want to inflate their way out of debt. A cheaper dollar is how they will do it.
We (citizens)want to survive and prosper. One way to do this is by being in these metals. Get out of paper, YES both digital and physical, Get into tangibles, physical necessities, not trinket junk but hard goods. IMO we will have inflation, possibly some painful real inflation, will it end? probably. Lets not hope like it did for Germany. They remember, that's why they are fighting so hard to not get sucked in to the game |
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NotABigDeal
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
3890 Posts |
Posted - 03/16/2008 : 09:55:45
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quote:
Originally posted by wheeler_dealer
Regarding the production of $$$$. the U.S. gov't exports inflation to keep the economy going. Look at the news China , Japan, India etc, all have trillions of U.S. dollars in reserve. There are only two existing denominations of U.S $ that have any monetary value (penny and nickel) because of their metal content. The Gov't makes (not profit directly) $ when they print or coins currency into circulation. This has many advantages, keeps a large portion of economy employed (look at all the direct and indirect jobs because of it.(mint workers, banks, security guards printers, miners,etc,etc...).
One of the reasons that they haven't changed or eliminated circulating coinage is because of the huge impact it would have on the economy. What would happen if they shut down all those mines. Every small town around them hurt, no mines no need for all the equipment more jobs lost more local economic pain.
Consider how little it cost to print a dead presidents portrait on a piece of paper. If it were legal why sort pennies. Look at the profit on a Ben Franklin.
Will they change the metal content? Yes, probably. Why, because the demand and uses for nickel and copper are more greater for other things. We(U.S.)will and are going to rebuild our Military Industrial Complex and this requires heavy use of these metals and the manufacturers want these metals at controlled prices, with demand so high that wont happen.
Inflation is the name of the game for U.S. gov't, they want to inflate their way out of debt. A cheaper dollar is how they will do it.
We (citizens)want to survive and prosper. One way to do this is by being in these metals. Get out of paper, YES both digital and physical, Get into tangibles, physical necessities, not trinket junk but hard goods. IMO we will have inflation, possibly some painful real inflation, will it end? probably. Lets not hope like it did for Germany. They remember, that's why they are fighting so hard to not get sucked in to the game
Nice post.
Deal |
Live free or die.
Plain and simple.
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your council or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen."
- Samuel Adams |
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Steel pennies a coming?
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