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horgad
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1641 Posts |
 Posted - 03/10/2008 : 12:38:08
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quote:
What us your theory on why you never get a solid shipment of duds at that one bank?
I am guessing that I am either getting one of my dumps or somebody elses, but if you think about it I wouldn't expect a solid batch of duds unless either I was extremely unlucky, somebody was dumping massive amounts at a time, or Brinks was sorting them.
For myelf I dump 3 times a week at 3 different locations about 8 boxes worth of zincs at each location. So my dumps are going into the system scattered in small batches and coming back out of the system scattered in small batches. Now if I was dumping all 24 boxes at one time, I would likely greatly increase the chances that if I saw 1 dud box I would see 100% duds.
So the flow to the banks coming from Brinks is something like 100 good boxes, 8 dud boxes, 100 good boxes, 8 dud boxes, 100 good boxes, etc. And that one bank for some reason (just bad timing of my pick-ups and returns maybe?) keeps overlapping with one the batches of 8 duds in the system.
But no matter what I blame all my dud boxes on Tourney...  |
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horgad
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1641 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2008 : 13:12:37
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By the way my fall back plan, if things get bad, is to stop dumping for 6 months and do nothing but buying. This would allow me to use my dump banks with the self service counters as buy banks instead of dump banks as well as make it so I wasn't buying my own dumps back. Then I would rotate and do 6 months of dumping with no buying.
It is hard to imagine that the California penny market has been totally taken over by hobby sorters. I would say if you can afford it try taking 200-300 boxes of zincs out of the system and see if that changes anything. Maybe get together with all the sorters in the area and declare a moratorium on zinc returns for 6 months. Of course that just might cause a penny void that would get filled with 2008's.
Also I would be calling CoinStar and pleading with them to cut you a deal... |
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HoardCopperByTheTon
Administrator
USA
6807 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2008 : 13:56:53
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I thought maybe they were shipping all your returns and c140cessnas returns out here.. LOL 
Actually, I had thought about your theory of getting my own or someone else's rejects and I don't think that is the case. I used to dump and pick up at the same bank for many, many months. I was picking up and dumping 24 boxes (12 bags) per week. I even kicked it up to dumping 100 boxes (50 bags) per week at this branch for a few weeks until they decided I was being too good of a customer.. LOL. During this entire process I tracked my percentages and noticed no appreciable copper percentage drop in the boxes sourced at this bank. They tracked very closely with boxes of all types and CWR from all my other sources. So I was not getting my own dumps back. Now all of a sudden I am getting entire 24 box shipments of duds even though I have spread my dumping action around to several banks? It doesn't make since unless there is an industrial level player on the field. I know most of the hobby sorters in CA.. I know who has machines, and who doesn't. I know what level of dumping the other guys near me are doing and what banks they dump at. Also from what you are reporting of your dud experiences, it does not sound like you are getting your own dumps back since you do small dumps at 3 banks but only get duds at one of your source banks.
I think a better plan for you would be to start using your banks with self service counters as buy banks to buy your source pennies.. especially if you can get them still in the bags and not rolled. You don't have to wait 6 months for your zincs to clear. Just find out what the shipment cycle is to avoid your own dumps. Maybe even start putting in a few painted tracers. You can also cycle these banks by making one your exclusive dump bank for a few months and picking up at all the others. You can rotate them every few months if you want.
Unfortunately there are no banks near me with self service coin counters so this plan would not work for me. A better plan for me might be to volunteer to do the coin sorting and counting for churches and charities. I have some serious machines that would make this a breeze. I would be doing a good deed to help my community while capturing raw coins for myself. I just need a good van to haul that Mach 7 around in now. |
If your percentages are low.. just sort more. If your percentages are high.. just sort more.
Now selling Copper pennies. 1.6x plus shipping. Limited amounts available. |
Edited by - HoardCopperByTheTon on 03/10/2008 14:06:01 |
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HoardCopperByTheTon
Administrator
USA
6807 Posts |
 Posted - 03/10/2008 : 14:00:18
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| Gosh, if I could get a dud rate of less that 8% that would be.. to quote my favorite corpulant animated 3rd grader.. "Swwweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet!" |
If your percentages are low.. just sort more. If your percentages are high.. just sort more.
Now selling Copper pennies. 1.6x plus shipping. Limited amounts available. |
Edited by - HoardCopperByTheTon on 03/10/2008 14:01:09 |
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deleted
2 Posts |
Posted - 03/11/2008 : 00:17:23
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Hi, I am new to the board, live in the Rocky Mountains. 4 boxes (two differnet date stamps, Feb. 29, and Mar. 5) from Wells Fargo Bank today (Loomis paper wrap). Ran through the Ryedale to find 100 percent ZINC (mixed dates). Not a single copper cent! Loomis also facilitating the CU removal? That would be a nasty turn of events.
I thought it would never happen to me, but now I would tend to agree with El Dee.
<<I'm conviced that this is a Mint undertaking. News that they've upped their zinc order tonnage dovetails with the dud boxes people are getting. They need to make more zincers to replace recovered copper cents.
If it's all true, my hunch is they have a copper quota to meet for the year, once that's met the machines go off until next fiscal year. I don't think they will engage in open ended sorting, they need to replace the coppers with zincs to prevent a shortage of cents, and they can only make so many in a year.
That may explain why you get a few good boxes here and there.>>
Think about it, why wouldn't the Gov. want to take back some copper on the cheap? Does anyone have a contact at the Federal Reserve they could ask about this? |
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HoardCopperByTheTon
Administrator
USA
6807 Posts |
Posted - 03/11/2008 : 01:02:30
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You are the first to report a Loomis dud. You have me worried a little now.. since most of my sources that are not supplied by Brinks are supplied by Loomis. Guess the easy days of just picking up weekly orders of boxes and sorting them are behind us now. A good scale will be standard required equipment so we don't waste time even breaking the seal on the box.
When Ardent Listener picks up his first 13.5 pound box I am going to really worry.
The reason the Govt. would want to take some copper back on the cheap is cause they need some copper for that hard outer candy shell. |
If your percentages are low.. just sort more. If your percentages are high.. just sort more.
Now selling Copper pennies. 1.6x plus shipping. Limited amounts available. |
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deleted
2 Posts |
Posted - 03/11/2008 : 11:16:54
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| If this is both Brinks and Loomis, then probably the sorting is being done at the Fed. Most banks have not been cooperative in selling me $50.00 bags off their counting machines -- am usually told "we can't sell the bags, they need to be shipped to Denver", or "the bags go to the Federal Reserve". Look at what happens to paper money -- Fed takes paper money in, sorts out the worn, checks for counterfeit, counts and bundles, and replaces with certified. Brinks / Loomis already drop off paper money and pick up Mint bags. Not much additoinal work for Brinks / Loomis to drop off unsorted copper bags to exchange for Fed certifed. Maybe the Fed is even giving them an additional 5 cents on the dollar for the especially heavy unsorted bags? No way the sorting is being done at Brinks or Loomis, no reason for the Fed to give them any major piece of the action. |
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horgad
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1641 Posts |
Posted - 03/16/2008 : 09:13:38
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quote:
Right now, in Indianapolis, I am picking up boxes weekly as follows:
10 Brinks boxes from the North side of town (a new bank for me). So far no duds in 3 weeks (knock on wood).
6 Brinks boxes from the South side of town (duds every week for the last 6 weeks ranging from 4 of 6 being duds to only 1 of 6 being duds)
10 Fed boxes from the South side of town. Never a dud though there is always a "risk" of getting boxes of uncirculateds (none lately).
So all my duds are coming from the same bank from a small order of 6 per week, but I've never gotten 100% duds so I keep picking up from that bank.
As soon as spring is firmly in place, I'll get my helper out again and increase my pick-ups from 26 a week to 36 or 46...
Just a quick note that I got zero duds this week out of 16 Brinks boxes and 10 Fed boxes. Woot! |
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WilliamC
Penny Collector Member
USA
471 Posts |
Posted - 03/16/2008 : 09:23:19
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And here I'm sitting on 50 boxes waiting for the Ryedale to arrive.
I just may have to crack one open at random just to be sure it's not a dud...
Ok just looked at one roll.
8 coppers, 42 zincs, 16%.
Hopefully the other 2,400 rolls will have at least as high a percent of copper. |
Sorting In Northwest Mississippi |
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wolvesdad
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
2164 Posts |
Posted - 03/16/2008 : 20:44:46
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William,
You will want to go ahead and crack open your boxes and start cracking open the rolls into a bucket or something, otherwise the machine sorting won't go any faster than the roll opening.
Just a hint/tip.
Hope it helps. |
"May your percentages ever increase!" |
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WilliamC
Penny Collector Member
USA
471 Posts |
Posted - 03/17/2008 : 05:17:41
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quote:
Originally posted by wolvesdad
William,
You will want to go ahead and crack open your boxes and start cracking open the rolls into a bucket or something, otherwise the machine sorting won't go any faster than the roll opening.
Just a hint/tip.
Hope it helps.
Yes but if I do that then I won't be able to stop myself from starting to sort them!
Seriously though I just emptied another cat litter pail yesterday so now I have at least enough room for a couple hundred dollars worth.
Humm...let's see where FedEx has my Ryedale at this morning...still has it as departing Toledo Saturday morning.
Well, it's getting here :)
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Sorting In Northwest Mississippi |
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wolvesdad
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
2164 Posts |
Posted - 03/17/2008 : 09:02:48
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| I don't have cats... But I've pulled two of those buckets out of the trash(dumpster) They are great!!! Really strong and convenient! Wish I had ten more. Wish I had enough copper to fill all 10 of them! |
"May your percentages ever increase!" |
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HoardCopperByTheTon
Administrator
USA
6807 Posts |
Posted - 03/17/2008 : 12:15:36
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| I use those cat litter buckets too. One of the best hints I picked up on this board. The way I get mine is to let friends and relatives know I want them and they save them for me. One lady at coin club brought me 2 more this month. I just picked up a couple of nice 19 gallon tubs yesterday.. that should cover me for a little while. |
If your percentages are low.. just sort more. If your percentages are high.. just sort more.
Now selling Copper pennies. 1.6x plus shipping. Limited amounts available. |
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slickeast
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
2533 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2009 : 12:36:34
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| This thread is old....but has anyone else seen this latly? |
You don't have to be the BEST you just have to be.......SLICK
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Robarons
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
522 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2009 : 14:29:52
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LOL, I was reading this on the first page thinking it was new until I read the date and realized that I read this already!
I think there was a couple isolated incidents of this, but nothing taken to the extent like this thread. I think Cnessa mentioned that in fact sorting company was sorting out the copper and was trying to take them off their balance sheet, a couple months after this thread was started.
With the combination of low copper prices, tight cash flows, and focusing on core business activites, I do not think that they are sorting right now. You could remove the ban now or with the current prices any time of the year, it wouldnt spur any sorting, the price is likely too low to turn a meaningful profit.
BUT, My brinks are still normal in my area. |
Robber Baron= Robarons |
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Mikep2020
Penny Collector Member
USA
402 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2009 : 14:36:33
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Seen 100% zinc boxes? I haven't.......yet. I actively get brinks boxes all the time and they are still 27%-32% Cu in my neck of the woods, and they are recent boxes with 2009 pennies in them. I don't think any companies are actively sorting on a commercial level, unless its happening in an isolated area or region that was beta testing a new copper recovery facility or something, but not on a national level.
After reading this whole thread from last year, it sounds like a majority of the copper should've already have been pulled for circulation if Brinks or any company was sorting on a massive scale last year, or at least average percentages would be down in the low teens if they were doing this. |
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Market Harmony
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1274 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2009 : 15:37:00
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Before I switched to my regular source bank, I had ordered $350 in $25 boxes from one bank that uses Brinks. I did this on 3 occasions. The first delivery was a normal mix, and the tellers were very happy for me to come in, but as I left they said that the Brinks man hated me.
The second batch I ordered $1000 in halves as well as the $350 in cents. With the exception of 2 or 3 boxes, the cents were all sorted, and about 97% zinc. The other boxes were about 97% copper! I don't know how or why those boxes got rolled that way. If they were sorting out the copper, why would they roll them afterwards? The halves contained 90% and 40% silver.
The last order was similar to the 2nd... 2 or 3 boxes of coppers, and the rest were zincs. I didn't order any more after that and found a bank that gets NF String boxes for me with no fees.
Now I just need a good dump bank. The one I use now has no fees, but the counter is slow... $325 in zincs takes me about 2 hours total as they have to switch out the bags, and the thing keeps jamming. |
goto the new and improved realcent: http://realcent.org |
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Bluegill
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1964 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2009 : 17:04:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Mikep2020
Seen 100% zinc boxes? I haven't.......yet. I actively get brinks boxes all the time and they are still 27%-32% Cu in my neck of the woods, and they are recent boxes with 2009 pennies in them. I don't think any companies are actively sorting on a commercial level, unless its happening in an isolated area or region that was beta testing a new copper recovery facility or something, but not on a national level.
After reading this whole thread from last year, it sounds like a majority of the copper should've already have been pulled for circulation if Brinks or any company was sorting on a massive scale last year, or at least average percentages would be down in the low teens if they were doing this.
I have to agree. My percentages have actually crept up in recent months. The Detroit 'burbs are getting a solid 30% right now.
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thewalrus81
Penny Sorter Member
93 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2009 : 21:32:18
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| Here in NW Florida, I've only sorted about 25-30 boxes total, but did come across 1 Brinks box about 3 weeks ago that had less than 100 total copper cents...I generally have been getting about 350-400 or so in Brinks and about 500-600 in NF String. I haven't picked up a Brinks box since; just gonna try and stick with NF. |
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HoardCopperByTheTon
Administrator
USA
6807 Posts |
Posted - 07/09/2009 : 22:54:06
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| I remember back when this was occuring. Members all over the country were reporting "dud" boxes. It was taking a lot of the fun out of sorting. We were starting to sweat a bit. But the combination of low copper prices, thin markets, inablility to get laws changed in your favor when you own just 1 congressman, etc.. caused the big boys to realize they couldn't tie up that much operating capital.. so things went back to normal for now. But just wait till copper prices start soaring again! Better sort more now, while the getting is good. |
If your percentages are low.. just sort more. If your percentages are high.. just sort more.
Now selling Copper pennies. 1.6x plus shipping. Limited amounts available. |
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Gr33nday43
New Member
Uzbekistan
10 Posts |
Posted - 07/09/2009 : 22:57:45
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| Hoard, My ryedale arrives next week. Time to secure my ton..or two...or three. I hope this doesn't happen again any time soon. |
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beerdoodle
Penny Sorter Member
USA
28 Posts |
Posted - 07/10/2009 : 01:03:48
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| Just actually bought my first box yesterday. (Loomis) Through 11 bucks hand sorting, it has been 34% with 7 wheats so far. I usually nickel and dime it 5 bucks here, 10 bucks there, and what not. Makes the bud lite go down smoother. Will probably start buying boxes now, however. |
I am really getting good at barely getting by |
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Gr33nday43
New Member
Uzbekistan
10 Posts |
Posted - 07/10/2009 : 02:34:52
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| Good! Sort as much as you can, as fast as you can. If you are a handsorter, I believe it it cheaper to just go ahead and buy the copper from members here on the board. Welcome to Realcent, beerdoodle! |
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TXTim
Penny Hoarding Member
629 Posts |
Posted - 07/10/2009 : 08:00:55
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I was getting 30% dud boxes of assorted date zinc last year when the copper price was in the stratosphere and believed that Coinstar had contracted with Brinks to pull copper.
Haven't seen a box like that in 6 months. I do pray for solid zinc in the form of '09 pennies these days! |
Beer is my currency. |
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HoardCopperByTheTon
Administrator
USA
6807 Posts |
Posted - 07/10/2009 : 08:26:56
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| Things have come full circle. Now that we all want solid zinc new pennies, we get copper. Last night I sorted 2 Brinks boxes.. figuring I would generate a little zinc to dump for lunch money. Had to check the Ryedale when it looked like everything was coming up on the copper side. It was fine. I love when you can count the zinc by hand. Got 44 zincs out of that box. That's 98.2% copper. So I think this is a fluke and grab another box. This box only yields 27 zincs. That's 98.9% Copper! Both of these boxes were from one of my regular banks that really likes me. Even when they don't have many boxes of pennies on hand, they are always willing to swap their boxes for mine. You can bet I am going to be doing some major swapping there. Ah, 98% and 99% Copper boxes. Kind of reminds me of the way we used to sort in my younger days. Of course back in those days we always got a pure 100% copper yield.. cause that's all they made them out of. We didn't keep them back then.. we were only sorting for wheats. Maybe Brinks is putting the coppers they pulled out last year back into circulation. Might be a good time to start getting Brinks boxes again. These boxes were from the same branch I first started getting zinc duds at when the drought hit. |
If your percentages are low.. just sort more. If your percentages are high.. just sort more.
Now selling Copper pennies. 1.6x plus shipping. Limited amounts available. |
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Brinks is Sorting out the Copper
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