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c140cessna
Penny Collector Member
USA
419 Posts |
 Posted - 01/31/2008 : 22:15:55
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We all know that the CuNi 5 cent is worth more than Face.....mostly due to the Ni content:
75% Cu x 5g = (3.75g Cu / 454g/lb) x $3.30/lb = $0.027 Cu
25% Ni x 5g = (1.25g Ni / 454g/lb) x $12.50/lb = $0.034 Ni
In my experience with hoarding and selling/trading Canadian .999Ni and US/Can CuNi - I was never able to find anyone interested in CuNi...and I called every specialty metal recycler/industrial CuNi user I could find. I did find one buyer for about the intrinsic CuNi content. I'm of the opinion that it will probably be difficult the scrap CuNi for anything beyond the basic Cu content...and the Ni will be viewed as a contaminant...
I think it is better to hoard un-sorted penny boxes. At 30% Cu content the box is 100% "sound"...and could be sorted into nearly pure Zn and Cu at a later time...
I think it is better to concentrate on Pennies and skip the Nickels.
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Know Common Cents
Penny Pincher Member
195 Posts |
Posted - 01/31/2008 : 23:17:01
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No doubt that the CuNi amalgam doesn't currently have a lot of recycling potential, but that could change. Some of the disinterest could be due to the melting ban. Other disinterest is probably due to the ease with which other recyclable items are available (aluminum can stock, steel, etc.) The scrappers will be more resourceful in the future if the price of Ni returns to its highs of last year and the prices stabilize in that area. Big demand for Ni (stainless steel) in the developing countries unless the US economy throws everyone to the mat.
I was told several times that the smelters didn't like Warnix due to the Manganese content and most were shipped off to foreign lands. That may or may not have been the case, but bags of Warnix are readily traded for their silver content (albeit at a slight discount from the current spot price).
I like nickels. For one, I don't feel the great urgency to break open the box and begin to sort the rolls. In essence, I know what's in there....nickels. I've had very few recent numismatic finds from nickels in the past 5 years, so I don't have high expectations. Quite different with the cents.
I say, "Bring on the nickels." We can always fall back on their face value, but should the demand exist, technology will come to this readily available resource.
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Here in Wisconsin, we have some of the highest property and gasoline taxes in the US. We're squeezed so much, I have to make my daughter wear penny boxes for shoes. At least she has an endless supply. |
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c140cessna
Penny Collector Member
USA
419 Posts |
Posted - 02/01/2008 : 00:12:50
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| I love differing opinions....nice points. I'm still anti-CuNi....but like your opinions! |
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fiatboy
Administrator
912 Posts |
Posted - 02/01/2008 : 09:48:55
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I tend to agree, c140cessna. CuNi nickels are not exactly the easiest coin to melt. Even if the melt ban lifted, I bet most refiners would concentrate on .999 Canadian nickels, and pay very poorly for the U.S. ones. I like pennies much better, and even zinc has more upside potential than it's given credit for.
But really, if you want to take a chance with nickels, go for it. They have a face value, so no worries. |
"Bart, it's not about how many stocks you have, it's about how much copper wire you can get out of the building." --- Homer Simpson |
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Ardent Listener
Administrator
USA
4841 Posts |
Posted - 02/01/2008 : 16:45:55
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I believe it is a mistake to think that the metal value locked into a U.S. CuNi nickel must be based on the copper and nickel that needs to be refined from each other. CuNi has many Marine industrial applications that are in demand. Remember, there is no way to produce a CuNi alloy without both copper and nickel.
This link You must be logged in to see this link. is to an Interactive Presentation of Copper-Nickel Alloys in Marine Environments. It may help those interested learn more about CuNi alloys.
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Think positive. |
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NotABigDeal
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
3890 Posts |
Posted - 02/01/2008 : 17:24:51
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I don't buy boxes anymore or anything, but I don't spend them either. Another can't lose. Not like I have hundred's tied up in them.
Deal |
Live free or die.
Plain and simple.
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your council or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen."
- Samuel Adams |
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n/a
deleted
85 Posts |
Posted - 02/01/2008 : 17:46:32
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We talk a lot here about "copper pennies" but they are not. They are really brass at 95% copper 5% zinc. The zinc cent is even closer to pure at 97.5% zinc than the so called copper penny.
One thing to remember with all of this is that there are a lot less U.S. nickels in circulation than there are pennies. I read once that there are only about $5.00 in nickels per American. I'm hoarding both pennies and nickels. |
"The key to building wealth is to not lose money." - Warren Buffet |
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aloneibreak
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
672 Posts |
Posted - 02/01/2008 : 18:29:53
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quote:
Originally posted by CopperBar
One thing to remember with all of this is that there are a lot less U.S. nickels in circulation than there are pennies. I read once that there are only about $5.00 in nickels per American. I'm hoarding both pennies and nickels.
that seems hard to believe but sure enough. if you add mintages of jefferson nickels including war nickels you get roughly 51,370,340,000. divide that by roughly 303,000,000 people and you get around $8.50 per person. if you could figure closer to what is actually circulating that amount would obviously go down.
i still dont see the need to buy boxes or rolls to hoard. but i do save every single one i get from change.
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My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results from too much government.
Thomas Jefferson
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fiatboy
Administrator
912 Posts |
Posted - 02/01/2008 : 18:36:11
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I don't know what to think anymore. Hoard it all and hope for the best!  |
"Bart, it's not about how many stocks you have, it's about how much copper wire you can get out of the building." --- Homer Simpson |
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c140cessna
Penny Collector Member
USA
419 Posts |
Posted - 02/02/2008 : 16:17:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Ardent Listener
I believe it is a mistake to think that the metal value locked into a U.S. CuNi nickel must be based on the copper and nickel that needs to be refined from each other. CuNi has many Marine industrial applications that are in demand. Remember, there is no way to produce a CuNi alloy without both copper and nickel.
This link You must be logged in to see this link. is to an Interactive Presentation of Copper-Nickel Alloys in Marine Environments. It may help those interested learn more about CuNi alloys.
CuNi is a popular marine metal....it is also known as "Monel"...but I bet I called 50 specialty metal dealers...and only foumd a few with casual interest and in the end, just one buyer of Canadian CuNi...which does not hsve US melt/export ban limitations....
I just feel that Cu and Zn and .999Ni are the best bets going forward...bet we will never get the Alloy Value out of the CuNi.
I'm pretty sure the Zn Penny will become sound again...inside 2 to 3 years...
Still concentrating on Cu "Brass" Pennies! |
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fiatboy
Administrator
912 Posts |
Posted - 02/02/2008 : 18:04:12
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I expect .999 Ni Canadian nickels to be the first of the base metal coins to be melted and/or traded as bullion. Once nickel maintains a dollar an ounce, things should get interesting.
The chemical properties of copper-nickel alloys vary greatly---some CuNi alloys are easier to refine than others. I think this is a big factor on the future of U.S. nickels. I wish I knew more about the specifics of refining. |
"Bart, it's not about how many stocks you have, it's about how much copper wire you can get out of the building." --- Homer Simpson |
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Argument Against Nickel Hoarding
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