| Author |
 Topic  |
|
Nickelless
Administrator
USA
5580 Posts |
 Posted - 07/03/2010 : 12:12:27
|
quote:
Originally posted by Market Harmony
quote:
Originally posted by Jangles
quote:
Originally posted by Market Harmony
I sent an email to my congressman, Jason Altmire, regarding this bill. I recommend that others do the same.
Any chance you could post what you sent? I would like to send one to mine as well. I do not see how this law could be good for a seller or a buyer. $600 is not that much when buying/selling PMs, gold or silver.
Here's a copy of my letter:
Hello XXX,
I am a coin collector and concerned about some unintended circumstances to my hobby that, unexpectedly, stems from the passage of the national health care bill. It seems that a 1099 form will have to be filed for transactions above $600 beginning in 2012. I can only imagine that this will have disastrous consequences to many of the avid dealers and collectors in coin and bullion (numismatists).
From information obtained through a circle of friends and associates, I understand that there is a bill introduced by Rep. Dan Lungren (H.R. 5141), which has gathered over 80 members of Congress as co-sponsors to repeal the section which affects these transactions.
Can you please tell me if you are familiar with Rep Lungren's bill? If so, do you support it? If you are not familiar, is it important enough to you to learn more about this? And, sorry for so many questions, but can you tell me that if you do support it, would you be willing to take extra measures so that both sides of the aisle can see how this affects small guys like me?
For reference, this link will take you to an article regarding just a smattering of what I've come to learn about this subject: You must be logged in to see this link. If I can be of assistance in helping you to gather more information, please let me know.
Thanks for your time,
XXX
Michael, here's a thread on GIM about this. I was wondering if it'd be OK to post your letter on there, or since you're on GIM you could do it as well:
You must be logged in to see this link. |
Visit my new preparedness site: Preparedness.cc/SurvivalPrep.net
--Latest article: Stocking up on spices to keep food preps lively
---------------
Be prepared...and prepared to help: http://www.survivalblog.com/charity.html
Are you ready spiritually for hard times? http://www.jesusfreak.com/rapture.asp |
 |
|
|
Sheikh_yer_BuTay
Penny Pincher Member
USA
232 Posts |
Posted - 07/08/2010 : 07:28:48
|
Okay, if I understand this right... When you make any coin sales above $599.99 in a calender year to one individual, you must file a 1099 on the event and pay taxes. The really bad news about this is you will most likely pay taxes on the entire dollar amount you received since most coin sales are done with cash. Most of us use after-tax dollars to purchase coins and since most coin dealers demand a cash sale, there are no sales slips. So, if you bought a gold coin for $900.00 and then sold it for $1,400, you will be PAYING TAXES TWICE ON THE ORIGINAL PURCHASE AMOUNT OF $900.00, plus pay taxes on the $500 profit!!! This is utterly obscene.
"If you want something to grow, subsidize it. If you want something to die, tax it." |
|
|
|
Market Harmony
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1274 Posts |
Posted - 07/08/2010 : 10:09:18
|
quote:
Originally posted by Nickelless
quote:
Originally posted by Market Harmony
I sent an email to my congressman, Jason Altmire, regarding this bill. I recommend that others do the same.
Here's a copy of my letter:
Hello XXX,
I am a coin collector and concerned about some unintended circumstances to my hobby that, unexpectedly, stems from the passage of the national health care bill. It seems that a 1099 form will have to be filed for transactions above $600 beginning in 2012. I can only imagine that this will have disastrous consequences to many of the avid dealers and collectors in coin and bullion (numismatists).
From information obtained through a circle of friends and associates, I understand that there is a bill introduced by Rep. Dan Lungren (H.R. 5141), which has gathered over 80 members of Congress as co-sponsors to repeal the section which affects these transactions.
Can you please tell me if you are familiar with Rep Lungren's bill? If so, do you support it? If you are not familiar, is it important enough to you to learn more about this? And, sorry for so many questions, but can you tell me that if you do support it, would you be willing to take extra measures so that both sides of the aisle can see how this affects small guys like me?
For reference, this link will take you to an article regarding just a smattering of what I've come to learn about this subject: You must be logged in to see this link. If I can be of assistance in helping you to gather more information, please let me know.
Thanks for your time,
XXX
Michael, here's a thread on GIM about this. I was wondering if it'd be OK to post your letter on there, or since you're on GIM you could do it as well:
You must be logged in to see this link.
Feel free to copy and paste the letter to anywhere you want. I posted it in public domain, so go ahead and use it as such. |
goto the new and improved realcent: http://realcent.org |
|
|
|
Market Harmony
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1274 Posts |
Posted - 07/08/2010 : 10:22:24
|
quote:
Originally posted by Sheikh_yer_BuTay
Okay, if I understand this right... When you make any coin sales above $599.99 in a calender year to one individual, you must file a 1099 on the event and pay taxes. The really bad news about this is you will most likely pay taxes on the entire dollar amount you received since most coin sales are done with cash. Most of us use after-tax dollars to purchase coins and since most coin dealers demand a cash sale, there are no sales slips. So, if you bought a gold coin for $900.00 and then sold it for $1,400, you will be PAYING TAXES TWICE ON THE ORIGINAL PURCHASE AMOUNT OF $900.00, plus pay taxes on the $500 profit!!! This is utterly obscene.
You are misunderstanding it. A 1099 does not mean that you have to tax it fully. The 1099 is just a report of incoming funds. In addition to the income reporting, you will need to show the expense of that income, which includes the purchase price and expenses incurred to perform the transaction.
So, you buy the $900 coin and incur $5 in expenses to do so. Then you sell it for $1,400 and incur additional expenses of $15 to do this. If you are taxed on the purchase as well, then those taxes are additional expenses.
INCOME:
$1400
EXPENSES:
$900
$5
$15
$45 (5% tax on the buy)
NET INCOME:
$435
You will only be taxed on the net income of the transaction. But the key point is that YOU MUST ALSO KEEP RECORDS OF THE EXPENSES: receipt of initial purchase, travel expenses, taxes, other. If you do not do this, then the IRS only knows that you have received $1400 and will expect you to pay taxes on the full $1400 as if that was your net income.
When dealers sell items for more than $600, then they will have to report the expenses incurred in making that sale... something which they basically have to do when they file taxes anyway. This legislation just makes it more cumbersome to do so.
The record keeping is going to mean a mountain of paperwork and a lot of hassle for so many folks. Many will just check out of the whole experience, and this will all lead to the detriment of dealers and collectors. |
goto the new and improved realcent: http://realcent.org |
Edited by - Market Harmony on 07/08/2010 10:23:44 |
|
|
|
thogey
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1617 Posts |
Posted - 07/08/2010 : 13:34:35
|
Sheikh_yer_BuTa understands perfectly. He is saying that since most of us buy with cash from individuals, as ordinary people we don't keep records of our purchases, it a hobby for goodness sake.
But if you don't have the records THAT ARE ACCEPTABLE to the IRS, they will "net you out"
and you will pay tax on the whole amount.
"The record keeping is going to mean a mountain of paperwork and a lot of hassle for so many folks. Many will just check out of the whole experience, and this will all lead to the detriment of dealers and collectors"
This is the point I was trying to make one the INTERNET sales vs IRS thread.
For some reason, that development did not draw the ire this rule does. Why? |
Come to the new and improved realcent: http://realcent.org
|
Edited by - thogey on 07/08/2010 13:40:21 |
|
|
|
Sheikh_yer_BuTay
Penny Pincher Member
USA
232 Posts |
Posted - 07/08/2010 : 15:06:23
|
Thanks Market Harmony, I appreciate the update. When I have a little spare cash, I go buy PM's. I use three coin dealers here in my hometown. All of them insist on "cash on the barrel head" for PM's and none of them give sales recipts on purchases.
With the new law, I am sure they will now on all future sales. But this does not cover my past purchases.
Since I was using after-tax dollars, I didn't think anything about it. I have no plans to sell for a very long time.
There is another thread on Penny Forum about leaving the country and taking your PM's with you. With Draconian laws like this one... it is beginning to make sense to me why some will do that. |
|
|
|
Sheikh_yer_BuTay
Penny Pincher Member
USA
232 Posts |
Posted - 07/08/2010 : 16:20:24
|
Thanks for the input Thogey,
Yes, my ire is up more than just a little. I am working to help two "Tea Party" canadates get elected in my state (Governor and a House Rep.) and I am sending money to some of Ron Paul's friends.
In 2006 I began to think Bush was trying to crash the system by not funding the Medicare Prescription Drug Program. According to the U.S. Debt Clock: You must be logged in to see this link. The prescription drug liability is now two trillion more than social security! It now stands at $19,093,363,+++,+++. Now, in 2010, with everything Mr. O has done... I KNOW they are trying to crash the system. Are the two parties just two sides of the same coin???
Gotta get people in there who will preserve our liberty. |
|
|
|
Kurr
1000+ Penny Miser Member
2906 Posts |
Posted - 07/08/2010 : 16:26:18
|
quote:
Originally posted by Sheikh_yer_BuTay
Are the two parties just two sides of the same coin???
That is it, entirely, you hit it square on the head. Two wings on the same vulture.
Edited to add:
For a State to claim total jurisdiction, as the modern State does, is to claim to be as god, to be the total governor of man and the world. Instead of limited law and limited jurisdiction, the modern anti-christian State claims jurisdiction from cradle to grave, from womb to tomb, over welfare, education, worship, the family, business, and farming, capital and labor, and all things else. The modern State is a Moloch, demanding Moloch worship; it claims total jurisdiction over man and hence requires total sacifice.
|
The silver [is] mine, and the gold [is] mine, saith the LORD of hosts. Hag 2:8 [/b]
He created it. He controls it. He gave it to us for His use. Why did we turn from sound scriptural currency that PROTECTS us?
KJV Bible w/ Strong's Concordance: http://www.blueletterbible.org/
The book of The Hundreds: http://www.land.netonecom.net/tlp/ref/boh/bookOfTheHundreds_v4.1.pdf
The Two Republics: http://www.whitehorsemedia.com/docs/THE_TWO_REPUBLICS.pdf
Good reading: http://ecclesia.org/truth/government.html
A number of people are educated beyond, sometimes way beyond, their intelligence. - Tenbears
|
Edited by - Kurr on 07/08/2010 16:34:34 |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
|
|
New law must report $600 transactions
Forum Locked
