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Nickelmeister
Penny Hoarding Member
Canada
588 Posts |
Posted - 06/30/2010 : 00:45:48
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| Buy from us Canadians :) |
www.WinnipegGoldBuyer.com
Standing offer for sale of quality, second-hand solid gold jewellery:
<$100 USD worth - spot +25%, plus actual shipping
$101-500 worth - spot +20%, plus actual shipping
$501-1,000 worth - spot +15%, plus actual shipping
$1,001+ worth - spot +10%, plus actual shipping |
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jtlee321
Penny Pincher Member
USA
136 Posts |
 Posted - 06/30/2010 : 02:13:17
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Why the hell should the government keep track of something that you have bought with money that your earned and (already) paid taxes on? They either want to tax you (read penalize you) for doing something smart with your money instead of letting it stay in the form of fiat in some BS financial institution. Or they want to keep track of where all the metals are going so they can confiscate it later. Either way your screwed. We had all better step up and scream out our windows regarding this BS. It's my g*****n money, I earned it, I paid taxes on it, I can buy what the f**k I want and sell what the f**k I want, and the government should not go meddling into my business..
After all the reason for buying the metals is to save your earnings for an emergency down the road. Some people may never need to sell, they plan on passing it on to their heirs. Again it's only a method of preserving your hard earned income. Keep your g*****n hands out of it.
I'm sorry my boxers are all in a twist. I just want to protect my daughter who is about to turn 3. I want her to enjoy the same freedoms I have had and my parents have had up until now. I am ef'n furious.. When will this madness stop? |
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wolvesdad
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
2164 Posts |
Posted - 06/30/2010 : 02:36:47
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I hope Idaho Copper is right.
But why make the law if "people" aren't next!???? |
"May your percentages ever increase!" |
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johnbrickner
Penny Pincher Member
154 Posts |
Posted - 06/30/2010 : 03:18:25
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Sigh~
What to say that hasn't been said before? I can't, so
Looks like the choices are either: A) get mad enough to do something about it and make things change; b) self-preservation; or c) accept and do nothing. Smarter and way wealthier people than I have already left this country, taken their stuff with them "offshore" and dumped their U.S. citizenship along the way. Many more (perhaps still smarter than I and just as middle class) have just left and taken their stuff "offshore".
Having spent most of my life doing "A" above leaves continuing seeking self-preservation in favorable countries within Central, South America, and the Caribbean looking the better choice as time and events continue.
Acceptance of the status quo is never a choice.
It's a Jungle out there, |
"I Killed the Bank" from the tombstone of Andrew Jackson |
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beauanderos
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
2408 Posts |
Posted - 06/30/2010 : 08:48:54
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I'm not entirely convinced that this move by TPTB is a precursor to another confiscation attempt down the road by tracking who has the metals, but what I can assure you is this... the government knows that people are losing confidence in fiat and turning to PM's, and they are preparing any obstacles they can design to thwart that trend. They recognize that most people who buy PM's would like to keep their transactions private, and publicizing those above $600 will kill the incentive of some individuals to convert fiat to gold in large amounts. It won't stop the trend, but they're trying to slow it down. It will also give them the opportunity to charge taxes to those who might think that they could have surreptitiously avoided them. So... buy as much silver as you can, and if you already have gold or 100 oz silver bars, sell it to APMEX or someone else you trust and convert it to junk silver. The day is fast approaching when you will prefer the smaller fractionals, it seems  |
Hoard now and hold on!
http://coppermillions.blogspot.com/
http://wherewillyoubein2012.blogspot.com/ |
Edited by - beauanderos on 06/30/2010 13:35:19 |
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Roadrunner
Penny Collector Member
USA
413 Posts |
Posted - 06/30/2010 : 12:42:37
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| Our government "leaders" have forgotten the Constitution, their oath to serve the people, and the people themselves. Makes me want to either cry or punch 'em. |
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Kurr
1000+ Penny Miser Member
2906 Posts |
Posted - 06/30/2010 : 13:13:58
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There is NO MONEY IN THE SYSTEM! We all use IOU's.
Remeber the constitution expanded upon the srticles of confederation, not abolished it.
quote:
The better to secure and perpetuate mutual friendship and intercourse among the people of the different States in this Union, the free inhabitants of each of these States, paupers, vagabonds, and fugitives from justice excepted, shall be entitled to all privileges and immunities of free citizens in the several States
The constitution could have a similiar clause butit escapes me at themoment.
We are (almost, he he, some of us have real money) paupers.
You have exactly no money no matter what you "account" says. Those are Federal Reserve Notes and are the property of "The Reserve" just out on loan to the government.
The government may do as it wishes with it's property, whichdue to layers and layers of laws, acts, emergencypowers,laws of occupation, and legal contracts you signed or agreed to, happens to include you, your property, business, children, and anything you aquire. |
The silver [is] mine, and the gold [is] mine, saith the LORD of hosts. Hag 2:8 [/b]
He created it. He controls it. He gave it to us for His use. Why did we turn from sound scriptural currency that PROTECTS us?
KJV Bible w/ Strong's Concordance: http://www.blueletterbible.org/
The book of The Hundreds: http://www.land.netonecom.net/tlp/ref/boh/bookOfTheHundreds_v4.1.pdf
The Two Republics: http://www.whitehorsemedia.com/docs/THE_TWO_REPUBLICS.pdf
Good reading: http://ecclesia.org/truth/government.html
A number of people are educated beyond, sometimes way beyond, their intelligence. - Tenbears
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Market Harmony
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1274 Posts |
Posted - 06/30/2010 : 14:24:33
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| I sent an email to my congressman, Jason Altmire, regarding this bill. I recommend that others do the same. |
goto the new and improved realcent: http://realcent.org |
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Jangles
Penny Sorter Member
31 Posts |
Posted - 06/30/2010 : 19:11:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Market Harmony
I sent an email to my congressman, Jason Altmire, regarding this bill. I recommend that others do the same.
Any chance you could post what you sent? I would like to send one to mine as well. I do not see how this law could be good for a seller or a buyer. $600 is not that much when buying/selling PMs, gold or silver. |
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thogey
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1617 Posts |
Posted - 06/30/2010 : 21:38:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Market Harmony
I sent an email to my congressman, Jason Altmire, regarding this bill. I recommend that others do the same.
Did you write him about the internet sales reporting requirement, that we discussed earlier this year?
Are you looking forward to demanding Taxpayer ID info?
I would imagine this requirement will affect you directly.
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Come to the new and improved realcent: http://realcent.org
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Market Harmony
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1274 Posts |
Posted - 07/01/2010 : 11:08:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Jangles
quote:
Originally posted by Market Harmony
I sent an email to my congressman, Jason Altmire, regarding this bill. I recommend that others do the same.
Any chance you could post what you sent? I would like to send one to mine as well. I do not see how this law could be good for a seller or a buyer. $600 is not that much when buying/selling PMs, gold or silver.
Here's a copy of my letter:
Hello XXX,
I am a coin collector and concerned about some unintended circumstances to my hobby that, unexpectedly, stems from the passage of the national health care bill. It seems that a 1099 form will have to be filed for transactions above $600 beginning in 2012. I can only imagine that this will have disastrous consequences to many of the avid dealers and collectors in coin and bullion (numismatists).
From information obtained through a circle of friends and associates, I understand that there is a bill introduced by Rep. Dan Lungren (H.R. 5141), which has gathered over 80 members of Congress as co-sponsors to repeal the section which affects these transactions.
Can you please tell me if you are familiar with Rep Lungren's bill? If so, do you support it? If you are not familiar, is it important enough to you to learn more about this? And, sorry for so many questions, but can you tell me that if you do support it, would you be willing to take extra measures so that both sides of the aisle can see how this affects small guys like me?
For reference, this link will take you to an article regarding just a smattering of what I've come to learn about this subject: You must be logged in to see this link. If I can be of assistance in helping you to gather more information, please let me know.
Thanks for your time,
XXX |
goto the new and improved realcent: http://realcent.org |
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Nickelmeister
Penny Hoarding Member
Canada
588 Posts |
Posted - 07/01/2010 : 11:19:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Nickelmeister
Buy from us Canadians :)
All sarcasm aside, when this thing takes effect it may make sense to deal internationally. Do you have to report foreign sales? I would be more than happy (as I'm sure other long-standing Canadian members) to make my business a hub for transactions outside the jurisdiction of the US government.
p.s. 500th post! |
www.WinnipegGoldBuyer.com
Standing offer for sale of quality, second-hand solid gold jewellery:
<$100 USD worth - spot +25%, plus actual shipping
$101-500 worth - spot +20%, plus actual shipping
$501-1,000 worth - spot +15%, plus actual shipping
$1,001+ worth - spot +10%, plus actual shipping |
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Roadrunner
Penny Collector Member
USA
413 Posts |
Posted - 07/01/2010 : 11:29:52
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| Good letter Market Harmony! |
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Jangles
Penny Sorter Member
31 Posts |
Posted - 07/01/2010 : 11:44:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Roadrunner
Good letter Market Harmony!
Yes, thank you for posting! |
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wayne1956
Penny Pincher Member
177 Posts |
Posted - 07/01/2010 : 13:27:38
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quote:
Originally posted by wolvesdad
I hope Idaho Copper is right.
But why make the law if "people" aren't next!????
Idahocopper had in his reply "purposes of this section the term ‘person’ includes any corporation that is not an organization exempt from tax under section 501(a)", which came from the bill. As I read it, it says it INCLUDES those corporations as a definition of person, as well as an individual person. I do not see where it excludes an individual person. It seems to me if it excluded the individual person it would say the term person DEFINES any corportation that is not..... |
Edited by - wayne1956 on 07/01/2010 13:29:23 |
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IdahoCopper
Penny Pincher Member
125 Posts |
Posted - 07/01/2010 : 13:43:30
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Wayne - When a word is specifically defined in law, it becomes a "term of art" and is no longer a common word in the ordinary sense. It's common meaning is dissolved, "for the purposes of this Section", and that "term of art" only holds the definition given, and nothing else.
So the word "person", since it is specifically defined, does not mean a human being, because that is not included in the specific definition. They could have used any word instead of "person", such as "FooledYa!", but if they did that, folks like you, would not be lured into acting on false beliefs, due to a lack of education in law.
See this case law:
“Expressio unius est exclusio alterius.” A maxim of statutory interpretation meaning that the expression of one thing is the exclusion of another. Burgin v. Forbes, 293 Ky. 456, 169 S.W.2d 321, 325; Newblock v. Bowles, 170 Okl. 487, 40 P.2d 1097, 1100. Mention of one thing implies exclusion of another. When certain persons or things are specified in a law, contract, or will, an intention to exclude all others from its operation may be inferred. Under this maxim, if statute specifies one exception to a general rule or assumes to specify the effects of a certain provision, other exceptions or effects are excluded.” [Black’s Law Dictionary, Sixth Edition, p. 581]
"When a statute includes an explicit definition, we must follow that definition, even if it varies from that term's ordinary meaning.” Meese v. Keene, 481 U.S. 465, 484-485 (1987) ("It is axiomatic that the statutory definition of the term excludes unstated meanings of that term"); Colautti v. Franklin, 439 U.S. at 392-393, n. 10 ("As a rule, `a definition which declares what a term "means" . . . excludes any meaning that is not stated'"); Western Union Telegraph Co. v. Lenroot, 323 U.S. 490, 502 (1945); Fox v. Standard Oil Co. of N.J., 294 U.S. 87, 95-96 (1935) (Cardozo, J.); see also 2A N. Singer, Sutherland on Statutes and Statutory Construction § 47.07, p. 152, and n. 10 (5th ed. 1992) (collecting cases). That is to say, the statute, read "as a whole," post at 998 [530 U.S. 943] (THOMAS, J., dissenting), leads the reader to a definition. That definition does not include the Attorney General's restriction -- "the child up to the head." Its words, "substantial portion," indicate the contrary." [Stenberg v. Carhart, 530 U.S. 914 (2000)] |
See - http://IdahoCopper.com
and:
http://beefjerky.com |
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wayne1956
Penny Pincher Member
177 Posts |
Posted - 07/01/2010 : 14:01:02
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| Ok, I stand educated. Hope you are right. |
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marine70
Penny Pincher Member
USA
150 Posts |
Posted - 07/01/2010 : 20:42:37
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| We have not seen anything yet, if you notice it is to pay for this crazy health care bill. They want to buy the votes of the people who do not pay taxes. So much for change you can believe in. Hey George W, I miss you. |
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thogey
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1617 Posts |
Posted - 07/01/2010 : 21:52:35
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I deleted my reply.
I thought it was inappropriate. This situation is painful!
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Come to the new and improved realcent: http://realcent.org
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beauanderos
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
2408 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2010 : 01:26:08
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| I just noticed the bill doesn't go into effect until 2012. At first I was thinking it was 2011. Conditions will be such in 2011 that both PM's will hit all time highs, most likely even when adjusted for inflation. This according to the research of a high-dollar subscription ($3000/yr) from an economic institute associated with Martin Weiss at Moneyandmarkets.com. If, as this study suggests, PM's do peak in 2011, it might be wise to sell off a good portion of one's stash "under the radar" while the opportunity still exists. What else can we do with this pile of lemons, except make lemonade, if our legislators refuse to reverse this? |
Hoard now and hold on!
http://coppermillions.blogspot.com/
http://wherewillyoubein2012.blogspot.com/ |
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beauanderos
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
2408 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2010 : 01:29:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Nickelmeister
quote:
Originally posted by Nickelmeister
Buy from us Canadians :)
All sarcasm aside, when this thing takes effect it may make sense to deal internationally. Do you have to report foreign sales? I would be more than happy (as I'm sure other long-standing Canadian members) to make my business a hub for transactions outside the jurisdiction of the US government.
p.s. 500th post!
I have a couple of thousand dollars face of junk Canadian 80% silver. I'll be sure to let you have first crack at it! Thanks for the offer, I will most definitely act upon it.  |
Hoard now and hold on!
http://coppermillions.blogspot.com/
http://wherewillyoubein2012.blogspot.com/ |
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highroller4321
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
2648 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2010 : 10:17:31
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Letters have proved to not be enough to do anything on any other major topic. A little letter isn't going to do anything with this. Actions have to be taken!
Also if you have gold theres no way around it...unless you have a good dealer. But if you have silver or coins than nothing stops you from making 10+ transactions a day :D |
Copper Penny Investing
www.portlandmint.com |
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Nickelless
Administrator
USA
5580 Posts |
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highroller4321
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
2648 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2010 : 12:28:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Nickelless
quote:
Originally posted by highroller4321
Letters have proved to not be enough to do anything on any other major topic. A little letter isn't going to do anything with this. Actions have to be taken!
Any suggestions on a course of action?
Sadly there is little we can do. Either have to vote those "scum" of the people out of government or simply have everyone refuse to pay it.
The tea party movement is moving towards what needs to happen but the group has to get much larger.
85% or more of the people are sheeple and get hearded around and will do what they are told do to. Before anything can change that number needs to become much smaller! If 15% of people fight back it helps some but if 50%+ fight back thats when things really start to happen. |
Copper Penny Investing
www.portlandmint.com |
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zerocd
Penny Hoarding Member
555 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2010 : 17:38:22
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| Already started, just in case! |
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New law must report $600 transactions
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