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marine70
Penny Pincher Member
USA
150 Posts |
 Posted - 05/30/2010 : 12:29:51
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I was sitting here going through some pennies,and a thought came to mind. Are we making a dent in the quantity of copper pennies out there. I realize that there are millions out there. Does anyone have an idea of how long the coppers will be available.
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Corsair
Penny Hoarding Member
811 Posts |
Posted - 05/30/2010 : 12:39:08
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This is a question that bugs many potential (and current) copper hoarders. Yes, there were billions of copper cents minted. Some will say that there is no way we are making a dent. However, here's my argument.
When it comes to eliminating the copper cent from circulation all together, the hoarder isn't the only factor to consider. We must also consider natural elimination. Coins are lost, destroyed, misplaced, or tucked away by the millions each year. Copper pennies, not including Wheats, have had more than fifty years to experience that, while zincs have only had a mere 28.
Also, I can't be sure (since I wasn't alive), but it's probably a good guess to say that people in 1960 never would have thought their Wheat penny would virtually disappear from circulation. They are as good as gone. That's what we need to happen. When the average person learns that this penny is different from that penny not because of looks but because of content, they will start to disappear at a much faster and dramatic rate.
Yes, we are making a dent. But so is everyone else, when they toss pennies into lakes, or throw them away, or drop them accidentally into the sewer. Copper percentages went from 100% in 1981 to around 25% in 2010. It's just a matter of time. |
So long, Realcent 1. Come visit us at Realcent.org! |
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HoardCopperByTheTon
Administrator
USA
6807 Posts |
Posted - 05/30/2010 : 12:59:14
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The coppers will be available until approximately 6 weeks after the melt ban is lifted. Get all you can while the getting is good. Just added another $600 weekly order from a new bank to my incoming. Time to step it up.  |
If your percentages are low.. just sort more. If your percentages are high.. just sort more.
Now selling Copper pennies. 1.6x plus shipping. Limited amounts available. |
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Copper Catcher
Administrator
USA
2092 Posts |
Posted - 05/30/2010 : 13:55:46
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Old news from 2007...
Luhrman, 60, president of Jackson Metals LLC, of Jackson, Ohio, said in an interview that he has spent his entire career in metals. He said he expected his idea to pay off because he calculates there are 191 billion pennies in circulation -- including the ones in your dresser drawer -- and about one in four was minted before 1982 and thus made of 95 percent copper (and 5 percent zinc).
The country is awash in pennies, Luhrman said, and the Federal Reserve, which is in charge of distributing coins, orders new ones minted instead of moving around surpluses. The Mint said there isn't a surplus.
Before starting his company last year, Luhrman said he checked with the Mint to make sure it wasn't illegal to melt down pennies. He operated for about five months before the government ban was ordered.
He bought pennies from banks and used special equipment to cull the copper-heavy ones minted before 1982. He estimated he could process 5 billion coins annually, separating out 1.2 billion copper pennies.
You must be logged in to see this link. |
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misteroman
Administrator
USA
2565 Posts |
Posted - 05/30/2010 : 14:47:57
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| good read and I wonder if h is still sorting them andnot just letting any one know of it. He already has the equipment so his out of pocket expense i minimal if he does it on a smaller scale. |
Buying CU cents!!!! Paying 1.2 unlimited amounts wanted. Can pick up if near Ohio area. |
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NotABigDeal
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
3890 Posts |
Posted - 05/30/2010 : 21:36:53
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quote:
Originally posted by misteroman
good read and I wonder if h is still sorting them andnot just letting any one know of it. He already has the equipment so his out of pocket expense i minimal if he does it on a smaller scale.
Hey buddy, nice to see you.
Deal |
Live free or die.
Plain and simple.
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your council or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen."
- Samuel Adams |
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PennyPauper
Penny Collector Member
USA
395 Posts |
Posted - 05/30/2010 : 22:18:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Copper Catcher
Old news from 2007...
Luhrman, 60, president of Jackson Metals LLC, of Jackson, Ohio, said in an interview that he has spent his entire career in metals. He said he expected his idea to pay off because he calculates there are 191 billion pennies in circulation -- including the ones in your dresser drawer -- and about one in four was minted before 1982 and thus made of 95 percent copper (and 5 percent zinc).
The country is awash in pennies, Luhrman said, and the Federal Reserve, which is in charge of distributing coins, orders new ones minted instead of moving around surpluses. The Mint said there isn't a surplus.
Before starting his company last year, Luhrman said he checked with the Mint to make sure it wasn't illegal to melt down pennies. He operated for about five months before the government ban was ordered.
He bought pennies from banks and used special equipment to cull the copper-heavy ones minted before 1982. He estimated he could process 5 billion coins annually, separating out 1.2 billion copper pennies.
You must be logged in to see this link.
Great article!
Anyone want to guess the end game here!
I give Luhrman credit for trying to make the biggest dump ever,giving them back the zincs.
The dollar is showing her weakness when they can't even make a sham penny for less then composition.
So the citizens end up paying one way or another.
The Fed could solve the problem by doing its main job and preserve
the value of our currency.When they took our (real money)gold then silver away
we were sold the idea the fed would be there keeping the dollar strong.At least thats my perception,let me know if I'm off.
I believe the people should have a honest review of their central bank,not the watered down version they got away with,but most people havent a clue or care about anything political.
I know I'd like to have a big chunk of those 191 billion coppers out there.
Anyone know what Luhrman is doing these days? |
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twentybux
Penny Pincher Member
174 Posts |
Posted - 05/30/2010 : 22:19:06
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| Ditto here about the read. I know the "dent question" has come up several times throughout the forum. I had not had a chance to read the article about the Ohio businessman. My gut...he's one of US! Just which one of US is he?????? |
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PennyPauper
Penny Collector Member
USA
395 Posts |
Posted - 05/31/2010 : 01:12:31
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I wonder if he is among us also.(spooky)I did a bit more reading and found this You must be logged in to see this link.
In this article from Nov 07, You must be logged in to see this link.
he sounds positive his plan will work.
Then in May 08 he sounds defeated You must be logged in to see this link.
But Luhrman said he doesn't expect the ban to be lifted soon. Even if it is lifted sometime in the future, too many lower-value coins will be in circulation, and his business model will be rendered moot.
"It really doesn't have any effect on us," Luhrman said of the coin-composition bill.
Luhrman still is running Jackson metals. But instead of recycling piles of pennies with 30 or 40 employees, as he once hoped, he's recycling products that contain gold, and employing about five people.
He likes Canadian nickels too! You must be logged in to see this link.
I missed this reading too fast in the first article but caught it in this last one.
The mint figure of 191 billion circulating pennies of which 25% are copper left leaves almost 48 billion.
Is that 480 million dollars worth of coppers?
I wonder how many millions have been sorted away by the members here?
You must be logged in to see this link.
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wolvesdad
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
2164 Posts |
Posted - 05/31/2010 : 04:39:35
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| At least 100 million copper pennies are out of circulation now. Probably a lot more. And I'm calculating asside from what Luhrman did. |
"May your percentages ever increase!" |
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slickeast
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
2533 Posts |
Posted - 05/31/2010 : 09:29:19
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| The Average hoarder on the forum probably has less than 1 ton of copper pennies. That is less than 300,000 pennies. I also doubt that anyone here has 1 million dollars in copper pennies. |
You don't have to be the BEST you just have to be.......SLICK
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specialbob
Penny Sorter Member
USA
56 Posts |
Posted - 05/31/2010 : 12:34:38
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My question is, how much of the 48 billion coppers out there are being taken out of circulation by orders of the Fed by way of Brinks and other "money changers"? They would make more money by culling the copper and putting more Zincolns into circulation.
Also, they say it costs 6 cents to make one nickel. Do you really think the US Mint is paying spot price if they are buying in bulk... tons and tons? Would you think they would get a better wholesale deal for buying in quantity? Would they short themselves on the price of metals? Bid out on futures when they know the price is going up and up? |
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PennyPauper
Penny Collector Member
USA
395 Posts |
Posted - 05/31/2010 : 12:38:31
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160,000 tons of coppers remain minus what Jackson Metal and realcent has done.We all know that its worth doing just by looking at coinflation and seeing that pennies are worth more in content than face.But the question always bothers me is how long until
enough enlightened folks like us can remove a big percentage of what is left. If one person with a ryedale can remove a ton in
lets say 3 months,and there are 400 or more machines out there,what kind of time frame do we have?
Some people have 2 or more machines going and are improving their methods.I always hoped that I'd have plenty of time to sort but more and more it looks like the clock is ticking faster,just like our national debt clock.
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copperhead57
Penny Collector Member
USA
255 Posts |
Posted - 05/31/2010 : 12:51:21
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I don't know if this makes sense, but from my calculations, over 165,000,000,000 copper Lincoln cents were minted between 1909 and 1982. I estimate that around 245,000,000,000 zinc cents have been minted. That means that somewhere around 410,000,000,000 Lincoln Cents were minted since 1909.
It seems that around 20% of the cents currently in circulation are copper. Lets assume that 10,000,000,000 zinc cents are forever lost, and that around 235,000,000,000 still are circulating. If that is 80% of the cents in circulation, that would leave 58,750,000,000 copper cents in circulation. That means 35.6% of the original production of the 1909-1982 copper cents are still circulating. |
copperhead57 |
Edited by - copperhead57 on 05/31/2010 12:55:40 |
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PennyPauper
Penny Collector Member
USA
395 Posts |
Posted - 05/31/2010 : 12:53:27
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quote:
Originally posted by marine70
I was sitting here going through some pennies,and a thought came to mind.
Does anyone have an idea of how long the coppers will be available.
Taking current efforts underway today by realcent members running ryedales,I figured out it will take 100 years.Now factor in hand sorters and that lowers it.
With new sorting capacity becoming available everyday it lowers the time taken,but when ryedale usage is doubled it will still take 40-50 years.
So I would guess a minimum of 5 years until it could physically be removed.By then there could be 1000's of machines humming. |
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PennyPauper
Penny Collector Member
USA
395 Posts |
Posted - 05/31/2010 : 17:41:56
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quote:
Originally posted by copperhead57
I don't know if this makes sense, but from my calculations, over 165,000,000,000 copper Lincoln cents were minted between 1909 and 1982. I estimate that around 245,000,000,000 zinc cents have been minted. That means that somewhere around 410,000,000,000 Lincoln Cents were minted since 1909.
It seems that around 20% of the cents currently in circulation are copper. Lets assume that 10,000,000,000 zinc cents are forever lost, and that around 235,000,000,000 still are circulating. If that is 80% of the cents in circulation, that would leave 58,750,000,000 copper cents in circulation. That means 35.6% of the original production of the 1909-1982 copper cents are still circulating.
I would say your numbers are good and backed up by the percentages reported here. |
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beauanderos
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
2408 Posts |
Posted - 05/31/2010 : 18:08:14
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the rate of depletion will accelerate as the price goes up. Each individual sorter exerts a subtle influence on those around him, perhaps resulting in one or two new sorters getting started. The process continues along a geometric progression. As silver and gold become unaffordable, investors will turn to nickle and copper. As hyperinflation strikes, the nominal value of the cent will approach ten cents each, and then fifteen... on and on until they are worth a quarter each. They will disappear in short order at that time.  |
Hoard now and hold on!
http://coppermillions.blogspot.com/
http://wherewillyoubein2012.blogspot.com/ |
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Aristobolus
Penny Sorter Member
76 Posts |
Posted - 05/31/2010 : 21:33:34
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| Its the end of the world as we know it...and I feel fine! |
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HoardCopperByTheTon
Administrator
USA
6807 Posts |
Posted - 05/31/2010 : 21:43:27
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N E E D T O S O R T M O R E !
Darn, I have been responsible for influencing some of those new sorters. |
If your percentages are low.. just sort more. If your percentages are high.. just sort more.
Now selling Copper pennies. 1.6x plus shipping. Limited amounts available. |
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AGCoinHunter
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
685 Posts |
Posted - 06/01/2010 : 08:29:50
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| Copper pennies, what copper pennies? ;) |
"All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent."
-Thomas Jefferson
"There is no difference between communism and socialism, except in the means of achieving the same ultimate end: communism proposes to enslave men by force, socialism—by vote. It is merely the difference between murder and suicide." - Ayn Rand
________________________________________________
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Hitler: Race-based National Socialism
Obama: Class- and Race-based Post-National Socialism
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Mikep2020
Penny Collector Member
USA
402 Posts |
Posted - 06/01/2010 : 10:25:53
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In a previous thread, I think I calculated a 2.6% drop in copper nationwide per year taking into account lost coins, new zinc injections and hoarders. We have only around 10 years of copper left in circulation until percentages drop below 5% as long as the status quo remains the same as it is today.
Also, Realcent hoarders are not spaced evenly throughout the country either, so some areas will see faster drops than other areas. Also, the areas where there are a lot of copper taken out of circulation, will see a lot of new zinc diluting the supply even further. |
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Copper Pennies Still Out There
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