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frugalcanuck
Penny Pincher Member
Canada
103 Posts |
 Posted - 04/26/2010 : 23:23:45
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I have a question about money. Is the money we claim to be our own the property the government or the mint? For example my passport has printed on it that it is the property of the government even though I feel it is my passport. Likewise my bank card also seems to be the property of the bank I do business with.
If we do own our money should we not be allowed to do what we please with it? Even if it includes destroying it or defacing it. If we are not allowed to do whatever we want to the objects we own then do we really own that object.
If we do not actually own our money can it not easily be taken away?
I have just been sorting for a short time now and do not know the possible negative aspects of sorting coins. I do see the benefits to it.
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thogey
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1617 Posts |
Posted - 04/26/2010 : 23:33:36
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I predict this thread will get hot.
IMO FRNs ultimately serve as markers. They are a promise to perform a unit of work.
They are not trade units. The only value they have is perceived by the traders.
We really don't own anything. We all have to give it up at some point, don't we? |
Come to the new and improved realcent: http://realcent.org
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mister_pennyweather
New Member
16 Posts |
Posted - 04/27/2010 : 00:13:34
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quote:
Originally posted by frugalcanuck
I have a question about money. Is the money we claim to be our own the property the government or the mint? For example my passport has printed on it that it is the property of the government even though I feel it is my passport. Likewise my bank card also seems to be the property of the bank I do business with.
If we do own our money should we not be allowed to do what we please with it? Even if it includes destroying it or defacing it. If we are not allowed to do whatever we want to the objects we own then do we really own that object.
If we do not actually own our money can it not easily be taken away?
I have just been sorting for a short time now and do not know the possible negative aspects of sorting coins. I do see the benefits to it.
I do what I want, when I want, to whom I want. |
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oldBPman
Penny Sorter Member
83 Posts |
Posted - 04/27/2010 : 05:40:32
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| currency is propertyy of the goverment, people in the military are property of the government although we aren't supposed to own people.I own my house free and clear, but i can't burn it down nor can i demolish it without a permit and a good reason. actually we own nothing of this earth, we're paying some government for the right to use it. |
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Ardent Listener
Administrator
USA
4841 Posts |
Posted - 04/27/2010 : 07:04:56
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| Technically I believe that we own it but there are restrictions on most of it. For example, if I find a two headed Indian cent the government doesn't have a legal claim on it. In addition, currently I can melt 90% silver coins if I wish. But the government currently has restrictions on the melting of certain base metal coins such as nickels and copper cents. But I'm allowed to put a penny in a crushing machine to obtain a novelty item. |
Realcent.forumco.com disclosure. Please read.
All posts either by the members, moderators, and the administration of http://realcent.forumco.com are for your edification and amusement only. It is not the intent of realcent.forumco.com or its host to provide investment, medical, matrimonial, legal, security or tax advice and nothing posted here should be considered to be so. All rights reserved.
Think positive. |
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Kurr
1000+ Penny Miser Member
2906 Posts |
Posted - 04/27/2010 : 08:10:52
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We have been BROKE since 1933.
There IS NO MONEY IN THE SYSTEM!!
The "currency" is :federal reserve notes" and every one ever created or will be created has interest on it and is nothing in reality but CREDIT.
Besides, even if we had money, remember this, We are slaves and slaves can not own property. They hold it till it is requested by the master. Ever wonder why the state can remove people's children FIRST then do the investigation or court? Because you signed away your freedom at some point. Been this way since antiquity.
This is why THEY get first shot at "YOUR" money. when your paid and why they can garnish your wages. This is why you write that check in April. This is why your property tax is really rent to the state. Don't pay that yearly "rent" and they will put someone else in that home and you can wonder what happened.
Involuntary servitude was banished in the Constitution. Voluntary Servitude continues in many forms and it a very large and complicated net in today's world.
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The silver [is] mine, and the gold [is] mine, saith the LORD of hosts. Hag 2:8 [/b]
He created it. He controls it. He gave it to us for His use. Why did we turn from sound scriptural currency that PROTECTS us?
KJV Bible w/ Strong's Concordance: http://www.blueletterbible.org/
The book of The Hundreds: http://www.land.netonecom.net/tlp/ref/boh/bookOfTheHundreds_v4.1.pdf
The Two Republics: http://www.whitehorsemedia.com/docs/THE_TWO_REPUBLICS.pdf
Good reading: http://ecclesia.org/truth/government.html
A number of people are educated beyond, sometimes way beyond, their intelligence. - Tenbears
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totalcount
Penny Sorter Member
USA
77 Posts |
Posted - 04/27/2010 : 08:27:30
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quote:
Originally posted by frugalcanuck
I have a question about money. Is the money we claim to be our own the property the government or the mint?
I'm not sure it matters, but I would say that you own it. The Federal Reserve issued it and you bought it, so you own it. If it were backed by anything tangible you wouldn't own what it was backed with, just the promise.
When there were silver certificates that you could trade in for silver dollars, you owned the certificate, but not the underlying silver so when the government stopped redeeming them you were free to keep what you owned (the paper) but lost your claim to the tangible asset backing it.
quote:
If we do own our money should we not be allowed to do what we please with it? Even if it includes destroying it or defacing it.
In general you can, go ahead an burn a dollar bill, the government won't know, if they did know they wouldn't care. There are some limits, for instance you can't currently melt pennies or nickels, but there are lots of restrictions on other things you own (you can't build a nuclear power plant in your backyard even though you own it, If you own anthrax you can't release it into the air, most places you can't dump motor oil into the ground, etc.)
quote:
If we are not allowed to do whatever we want to the objects we own then do we really own that object.
That is more of a philosophy question.
quote:
If we do not actually own our money can it not easily be taken away?
Even if you do own it the government can take it away, that doesn't just apply to money, that is everything. The fifth ammendment says You must be logged in to see this link.. So taking property with compensation is allowed. |
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coppertone
Penny Sorter Member
Canada
63 Posts |
Posted - 04/27/2010 : 08:28:47
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| Current money is not real money. What is ours and then only tenuously is what what currency represents. |
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johnsonjohn2441
Penny Pincher Member
USA
102 Posts |
Posted - 04/27/2010 : 11:54:11
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| hide the money under your bed so they cant find it! |
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jonflyfish
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
693 Posts |
Posted - 04/27/2010 : 12:00:06
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| Money and currency are two separate entities just like copper and paper are two distinctly different commodities. |
The first panacea for a mismanaged nation is inflation of the currency; second is war. Both bring a temporary (and false) prosperity; both bring a permanent ruin. But both are the refuge of political and economic opportunities. |
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harley1
Penny Pincher Member
140 Posts |
Posted - 04/27/2010 : 13:27:56
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| i think it is quite obvious whose money it is.......that SOB that was somehow voted into office.i hope ron paul is licking his chops. |
Today is the tomorrow we worried about yesterday. |
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wheeler_dealer
Penny Collector Member
USA
402 Posts |
Posted - 04/27/2010 : 23:18:23
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Money doesn't really belong to anyone. It is a transient form of servitude. We used it as a trade mechanism because it has a perceived value and allows convenient exchanges between individuals who might not otherwise find a suitable market for the service or goods which they produce to trade.
My paper dollars are represented as Federal Reserve Notes and IMO they own them and therefore they aren't worth they paper they are printed on because they (federal Reserve) is just a concept. What is a piece of paper worth? |
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coppernickel
Penny Pincher Member
USA
131 Posts |
Posted - 04/28/2010 : 18:29:30
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Sure open a can of worms.
The short answer is, "If you own it you own it, but the government can take it away for many reasons."
Pennies and Nickels -- The melt ban is not preventing people from having property. The ban is to prevent people from interferring with commerce.
Gold recall 1933 -- FDR asked all persons to voluntarily tunr in thier gold, but then gave threats of fines or prison if it was not turned in. No one was recorded as being prosecuted.
Paper money -- Read it. The old silver and gold certificates were a contract with the holder that the bank would pay you in gold or silver for the note. Now it is a "note" meaning very little.
The one of the main articles in the Declaration of Independance and the Constitution were both property rights. Many of these have been lost or forfit since that time.
There are many laws on the books, some since 1917, that give the government the right to take anything it needs for the "greater good" in times of need, war or other emergency.
The old rule is possession is 9/10 of the argument.
Does that make it clear? |
Silver Monometalism is the most permanent and stable form of money the world has seen. Natural law and history prove silver value is best multiplied by gold and best divided by copper. It is only in this counterfeit currency time when the natural law appears suspended. |
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frugalcanuck
Penny Pincher Member
Canada
103 Posts |
Posted - 04/28/2010 : 18:54:57
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| Thanks for all the help |
One box of Nickels
11.65% .999 Ni |
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CrazyTom
Penny Sorter Member
USA
52 Posts |
Posted - 04/29/2010 : 22:21:21
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Property, both intellectual and physical, is the foundation of true freedom.
Real wealth is physical property converted to something of value by the application of intellect.
A tax on property is like being a little bit pregnant. Either we are free or not, or pregnant or not. Shun the fools that can't tell the difference.
We trade part of our life for the things we obtain in legitimate efforts. When our property is taken by force part of the life we gave for it is taken and can never be replaced.
Craven moochers, who earn nothing of their own accord, will call you selfish in a ploy to guilt you into surrendering what you earned. They are less honest than the thief who holds a gun to your head.
In a rational world what you earn is yours.
We do not live in a rational world. Political piracy is the vogue. Vote for the pirate and he will share some of the booty. Never mind that some of the booty came from those who voted for him. Most of it came from those who voted against him.
Democracy is mob rule.
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Read Atlas Shrugged if you want to know why this country is in the crapper. |
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Whose money is it?
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