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horgad
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1641 Posts |
 Posted - 11/03/2007 : 09:41:47
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Few people want sterling plate. I see it sitting untouched at garage sales all the time. Lots of it ends up at the thrift stores after it doesn't sell at the garage sales. The amount of silver in the plating is so small why would anybody want the junk? And many times the items are dented, tarnished, and/or have the plating coming off.
But know ask yourself what is under that thin, abused, now ugly silver plate? Well if it was made by a recognized manufacture, copper is the answer. $3.40 a pound beautiful copper...
Last week I bought 7.5 lbs of silver plated "junk" at one sale for $6...
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fiatboy
Administrator
912 Posts |
Posted - 11/03/2007 : 20:08:51
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I always make a point to check out plated silver---not just to pick up any solid sterling that might've slipped by, but also to find silver-plated copper. Over the years, I've purchased at least my body weight in silver-plated copper, and way below melt, too!
"Bart, it's not about how many stocks you have, it's about how much copper wire you can get out of the building." --- Homer Simpson |
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Ardent Listener
Administrator
USA
4841 Posts |
Posted - 11/03/2007 : 20:17:03
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Is it always copper? Any quick and easy way to remove the silver and perhaps recycle it?
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fiatboy
Administrator
912 Posts |
Posted - 11/03/2007 : 23:29:24
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quote:
Is it always copper? Any quick and easy way to remove the silver and perhaps recycle it?
No, it's not always copper. The hallmarks for silver-plated copper are usually different from regular silver-plated hallmarks. I'll post what mine are after I dig them up.
I don't know how to remove silver-plating, though. Most acids that would remove silver would probably do some serious damage to the copper, no? Maybe electrolysis?
I haven't the foggiest.
Luckily, the silver plating is very thin and wearing off in some places. Shouldn't be too hard.
Methinks this is something I ought to research more....
"Bart, it's not about how many stocks you have, it's about how much copper wire you can get out of the building." --- Homer Simpson |
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horgad
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1641 Posts |
Posted - 11/05/2007 : 08:00:47
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"Is it always copper?"
I have some some cheaper stuff (no mint marks) that I am pretty sure is silver plated brass ($1.25 a pound as scrap). It is very slightly magnetic which I have seen in some brass pieces that are made out of a cheaper brass that contains a slight amount of iron.
Every piece that I have seen so far where somebody bothered to put a mint mark on it looks like silver plated copper to me, but I guess the safe answer is some more research is needed. 
"I don't know how to remove silver-plating, though. Most acids that would remove silver would probably do some serious damage to the copper, no? Maybe electrolysis?"
The hardest part of doing your own recycling is getting a hold of the the acid. Thanks to the Oklahoma City bombing and 911 Nitric acid (explosive ingredient) has become hard and/or expensive to buy. Sulfuric acid should also work and it is not as hard to find as Nitric (think drain cleaner and battery acid), but so far when I have found it it has been too expensive to use for refining. Hydrochloric acid (muriatic acid) may work for silver, but I am not sure. Muriatic acid is cheap and easily found as it is used in brick and concrete work.
The problem with Muriatic is that it doesn't dissolve silver the way the other acids do. Instead the silver turns into a cloud of silver chloride suspended in the liquid. This may or may not effect the purity of the silver if you try to refine this way...I am thinking that it would but I am not sure.
In any case, this is what I would try:
1. Put the silver plated item in the acid.
2. Remove the item after the silver has been dissolved.
3. Keep adding/removing silver plated items until the acid stops working on the silver.
4. Add copper to the acid until the copper no longer dissolves. This will cause all of the silver to fall out of solution.
5. Filter the liquid (the silver will be in the filter).
6. Melt/burn everything in the filter (filter included) to get silver metal.
7. If you want the copper back, add aluminum until the aluminum no longer dissolves. This will cause the copper to fall out of solution. Filter and burn/melt to get the copper just like for the silver.
8. To get all metals to fall out of solution, add table salt.
9. Take the what ever was under the silver plate to your local refiner and send the silver in to a precious metals refiner.
Disclaimer: think toxic gases, think burning flesh and eyeballs, think its not my fault if you breath that crap in or spill it on yourself 
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Edited by - horgad on 11/05/2007 10:33:44 |
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fiatboy
Administrator
912 Posts |
Posted - 11/05/2007 : 10:10:28
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Thanks for the info!
"Bart, it's not about how many stocks you have, it's about how much copper wire you can get out of the building." --- Homer Simpson |
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horgad
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1641 Posts |
Posted - 11/05/2007 : 11:02:06
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No problem. My instructions are based on a property of metals called their "level of activity". Basically the more active a metal is the easier it reacts with an acid. And more active metals always drive less active metals out of solution. Here is a list from most active to least active:
Lithium
Potassium
Barium
Calcium
Sodium (it is in table salt)
Magnesium
Aluminum
Zinc
Iron
Nickel
Tin
Lead
Copper
Mercury
Silver
Gold
You should be able to predict what is falling out of a solution using that. Just be aware that you can get multiple stuff falling out at once so it is a good idea to take as small of steps as possible....like using copper to force out the silver instead of say using tin or zinc which would force out both the silver and the copper.
The list is from You must be logged in to see this link. |
Edited by - horgad on 11/05/2007 11:04:44 |
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n/a
deleted
38 Posts |
Posted - 11/17/2007 : 20:39:57
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| Remember if you see a lion hallmark, it automatically means it is sterling. |
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n/a
deleted
478 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2008 : 16:34:48
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These are some common markings of silver plate and base metals.
EPNS Electroplate on Nickel Silver
EPBM Electroplate on Britania Metal
EPWM Electroplate on White Metal
EPC, Electroplate on Copper
German Silver AKA Nickel Silver an alloy of nickel, copper, and zinc.
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Metalophile
Penny Collector Member
USA
320 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2008 : 07:25:13
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quote:
Originally posted by horgad
No problem. My instructions are based on a property of metals called their "level of activity". Basically the more active a metal is the easier it reacts with an acid. And more active metals always drive less active metals out of solution. Here is a list from most active to least active:
Lithium
Potassium
Barium
Calcium
Sodium (it is in table salt)
Magnesium
Aluminum
Zinc
Iron
Nickel
Tin
Lead
Copper
Mercury
Silver
Gold
You should be able to predict what is falling out of a solution using that. Just be aware that you can get multiple stuff falling out at once so it is a good idea to take as small of steps as possible....like using copper to force out the silver instead of say using tin or zinc which would force out both the silver and the copper.
The list is from You must be logged in to see this link.
Horgad, I don't think your process would work, especially if you try it with sulfuric or hydrochloric acid. Your activity series list omits a very important element, hydrogen, which should be somewhere between lead and copper. Yes, any element above hydrogen in the series will be attacked by acid, but, in general elements below hydrogen are resistant to attack by acid. (I think nitric acid may still attack silver because it is also a strong oxidizing agent).
If you try dissolving silver plated ware with nitric acid, inevitably the silver plate will be thinner in some places. I think as silver starts to be eaten away, copper or whatever is underneath will be exposed in spots. Then the acid may preferentially attack that metal underneath. So you may end up using a lot of acid to dissolve the whole piece to get all the silver dissolved. As you say, quite a messy and dangerous situation! |
Metalophile |
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horgad
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1641 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2008 : 08:04:03
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quote:
Horgad, I don't think your process would work, especially if you try it with sulfuric or hydrochloric acid. Your activity series list omits a very important element, hydrogen, which should be somewhere between lead and copper.
For sure there is a lot more to it. Like you said, you need to pick the right acid or acids for the job and take the right safety precautions. Somebody posted a link to great forum where people who are actually doing this exchange ideas. I somehow lost the link or I would repost it...
Also I should point out that I recently found that a tea set in my silver plate collection is made of some kind of pot metal (maybe zinc). A leg broke off and the interior metal under the silver is very porous and brittle with a dull gray color. So it likely isn't even worth the $1.50 a pound or so that I paid for it. I never thought that somebody would bother silver plating such crap, but it is out there.
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Edited by - horgad on 02/08/2008 08:05:04 |
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tmaring
Penny Collector Member
USA
302 Posts |
Posted - 02/12/2008 : 20:48:05
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quote:
Originally posted by horgad
"Is it always copper?" I have some some cheaper stuff (no mint marks) that I am pretty sure is silver plated brass ($1.25 a pound as scrap). It is very slightly magnetic which I have seen in some brass pieces that are made out of a cheaper brass that contains a slight amount of iron.
I've never heard of a brass alloy with iron in it! I could check my ASM reference book on copper alloys... but I'm pretty sure that it would be ridiculously difficult to make (copper boils by the time you get it hot enough to alloy with iron) and therefore would be a super specialty thing and not a cheapo.
What you more likely have is a "nickel-silver" alloy. Sometimes called "German Silver" this is metallurgically a nickel bronze, containing various percentages of nickel, usually between 14% and 18%. The nickel "whitens" the alloy, while rendering it harder and with a higher melting point that the zinc bearing brasses or the tin bearing bronzes. The magnetic effect is caused by the nickel... which has the second highest ferromagnetic susceptibility, second only to iron. (Cobalt is third) Once you get up to 25% nickel, they call the alloy "cupronickel" and that's what we make nickels out of... they are grayer in color than the nickel-silvers... which are fomulated to approximate the color of silver as close as possible. Almost every piece of silver plate flatware I've ever messed with has been nickel silver. |
Tom Maringer
Shire Post Mint
Springdale, Arkansas |
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horgad
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1641 Posts |
Posted - 02/13/2008 : 07:59:41
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You really got me thinking now. I have not been putting much thought into my scrap collection lately as it is mainly a summertime, garage sale hobby. However, I would love to learn and be better prepared for my garage sale adventures.
As I remember from last summer, I was finding three types of brass like objects (does not include any of my silver plated finds). The first type was obviously magnetic with either plating or "paint" over steel. The second type was the good stuff showing no magnetism. And the third type was the mystery stuff that did not appear plated, but showed slight magnetism.
Anyhow, I will dig into my scrap pile and pull out some of the slightly magnetic brass colored pieces for further examination and report back to you soon. |
Edited by - horgad on 02/13/2008 08:04:08 |
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Robarons
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
522 Posts |
Posted - 02/13/2008 : 15:20:39
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I am also in the same boat with this topic.
I also see silver plated items at sales and am wondering if there are scrappers out there that will buy the stuff (for the silver or whats under it) and at what prices?
I see brass/copper objects like candle holders, etc. at sales marked with a 'solid ____' stickers, but with no markings or some things without any identication. Would I have trouble selling these obejects to a scrapper?
Also is aluminium pots and pans worthwhile?
Sorry if this strays too far off topic. |
Robber Baron= Robarons |
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The hidden secret of sterling plate
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