| Author |
 Topic  |
|
|
OracleofMN
New Member
USA
2 Posts |
 Posted - 01/16/2010 : 20:04:28
|
|
Has anyone ever tried to corner the market on a key date coin? Do you think it would be possible? I bet a small group of buyers would be able to take a large piece of a key date coin off the market. Think of some of the morgans with under 1mn coins. Maybe the hunt brothers should have tried this instead...
|
|
|
Market Harmony
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1274 Posts |
Posted - 01/16/2010 : 20:29:33
|
quote:
Originally posted by OracleofMN
Has anyone ever tried to corner the market on a key date coin? Do you think it would be possible? I bet a small group of buyers would be able to take a large piece of a key date coin off the market. Think of some of the morgans with under 1mn coins. Maybe the hunt brothers should have tried this instead...
For a first post, I've got to say that this is an interesting topic. Thanks.
I do belive that there is some room for cornering certain markets, but identification is the most important part. Whether it is a certain grade of elder coinage or creating a market for new issues is debatable. My assumption for Morgans, specifically, is that the prices already reflect the current distribution of dates and mints. Just look at the Carson City issues. A large stash of 1883 and 1884 issues were discovered in mint sewn bags in 1964 so the price for a BU specimen is the lowest of any of the other CC's. But a MS 1884-s (3.2 million), even having a higher mintage that the 1884-CC (1.14 million), has significant value in MS state over the CC issue. This value reflects the current distribution of the this particular coin in this particular grade range, so that cornering the market is next to impossible.
BUT!!!! If you you are talking about cornering the market for some relatively recent issues of any variety, then I think there is some room for discussion. For example, the 1955 washington quarter: it has one of the lowest mintage figures and is relatively cheap in MS state. A market for these can be cornered, in my opinion, even though a great many of these coins have been minted.
The key to cornering a market is to set the price... you need a large bankroll, whether individual or collaborative, to acquire a majority of the specimens. And then you have to create the market... you buy at one price and sell at another. If someone wants to either sell or acquire one, they quickly learn that the best source is you- whether to buy from or to sell to. That is the key to cornering a market. This concept is not far from the ideals behind the Hunt brothers and other market makers in their attempts to corner a market.
I'm interested in your ideas. PM me if you'd like. |
goto the new and improved realcent: http://realcent.org |
 |
|
|
oober
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1304 Posts |
Posted - 01/16/2010 : 20:37:29
|
| I'm going to do that with the 1913 V nicks as soon as I have the capital. |
|
|
|
wolvesdad
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
2164 Posts |
Posted - 01/16/2010 : 23:48:41
|
| Thought of it a long time ago, but figured I'd need at least $100000 to even come close to cornering any coin in the market. I don't have that much money, much less the half a mil that would more assuredly allow me to corner such coin. If you don't have the ALL to corner it, you'll get stuck with too many of one coin, and have to sell for less than you paid or go broke sitting on them. |
"May your percentages ever increase!" |
|
|
|
PreservingThePast
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1572 Posts |
Posted - 01/17/2010 : 08:43:03
|
quote:
Originally posted by OracleofMN
Has anyone ever tried to corner the market on a key date coin? Do you think it would be possible? I bet a small group of buyers would be able to take a large piece of a key date coin off the market. Think of some of the morgans with under 1mn coins. Maybe the hunt brothers should have tried this instead...
Welcome to the forum...OracleofMN.
Interesting concept to ponder.
Enjoy your coin searches, everyone.  |
|
|
|
Kurr
1000+ Penny Miser Member
2906 Posts |
|
|
thogey
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1617 Posts |
Posted - 01/17/2010 : 10:36:27
|
It would be possible with issues of the (trime) Three cent silver 1851-73.
Some years a low mintage and I don't think their price reflects their scarcity |
Come to the new and improved realcent: http://realcent.org
|
|
|
|
OracleofMN
New Member
USA
2 Posts |
Posted - 01/17/2010 : 11:17:01
|
Market H,
You make some interesting arguments.
I think their would be two ways to accomplish this. The first, requiring a larger base of capital, would be to concentrate on known collectible coin with low float, like a morgan. As you stated,"the prices already reflect the current distribution of dates and mints" However, they would not reflect the monopoly that you are about to create by cornering a large portion of the market. This would require a swift concentrated effort to purchase as many of the specific date coin as possible before the market wises up and you artificially inflate the price thorugh your actions.
The second way I beleive you could accomplish this is similar to what you mentioned - pick an realativley recent/obscure low mintage date coin and consitently by over a period of years. I think this would still require some sense of urgency however the realtive obscruity of the target coin would cause the price to react slower to your actions as it would go undectected by more people for a longer period of time.
I would imagine a group of people could accomplish this... 10-20 people could set up a revoc. trust or other entity with certain rules to prevent cheating by early sellers. A group of this many people committing 20-100k/year over a period of 5-10 years would be a good start. There are many details to look into to see if this would work. Otherwise, I used to work at a hedge fund perhaps I should call up my old PM's to see if they are interested...
Fun to think about.
Preservingthepast - thank you for the welcome.
Cheers
|
|
|
|
jadedragon
Administrator
Canada
3788 Posts |
Posted - 01/17/2010 : 13:17:24
|
There is not enough velocity or transparency in the coin market to corner it. How would you motivate people to dig a rare coin out of their collection to sell it too you? How would you even know who to ask for the coins? Many coins sit in collection for decades without seeing the market and many collectors do not/can not follow the coin market. There is also no central exchange or comprehensive reporting mechanism for coin sales. Lots of private cash deals happen. It is not like the stock market, commodity market or the real estate market where every deal is recorded and reported.
At any rate, attempting a market corner on anything is an expensive high risk maneuver and it never lasts as others figure out how to break the corner or switch to alternative solutions. There are better business strategies out there to follow. |
“The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” – George Bernard Shaw.
Why Copper Bullion ~~~ Interview with Silver Bullion Producer Market Harmony
Passive Income blog |
|
|
|
Market Harmony
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1274 Posts |
Posted - 01/17/2010 : 19:18:27
|
If it was possible to corner the market for a specific coin, then it will be quite difficult to do so. Jadedragon makes some pretty important points, and I agree with what he says.
My initial reponse was that there is some room for this to happen. Critical conditions would have to be met in order for it to happen. I really doubt that any Morgan would be able to be cornered. And, as JD points out, there isn't enough velocity and transparency for coins in general. Therefore, if you try to corner a market for 1917-S type 1 quarters, for example, you would need sufficient interest in the coin for others to pay you the asking price once you've cornered the market on them. But how many potential buyers of those coins are there? And then, once you begin to sell, you actually create competitors as the buyers can try to flip the coins.
The only coins that I think are possible to corner are those that are already scarce, such as high grade 1877 Indian, 1922 no D, 1955 double die cents, 1916-D Merc dime, and a few others which have a high amount interest and are part of somewhat easy to complete series of coins. But again, the velocity of this market is low and therefore a really tough one to reap the rewards of monopolization. The opportunity costs are too high. |
goto the new and improved realcent: http://realcent.org |
|
|
|
Copper Catcher
Administrator
USA
2092 Posts |
Posted - 01/17/2010 : 19:52:56
|
While not thought of as key dates to most, a group could buy up certain Trade Dollars without much fuss. I have not looked at the population reports in a long time but what was listed was no where close to the mintages if I remember correctly. There can’t be but so many raw coins out there.
1879 1541 minted
1880 1987 minted
1881 960 minted
1882 1097 minted
1883 979 minted
1884 10 minted
1885 5 minted
|
|
|
|
slickeast
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
2533 Posts |
Posted - 01/17/2010 : 19:58:57
|
| I am trying to corner the Gold market. I am one gram closer after my recent purchase. |
You don't have to be the BEST you just have to be.......SLICK
|
|
|
|
kirkland
New Member
USA
0 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2010 : 20:39:45
|
| I do not know what to say, but I am quite intrigued by the same thing. |
|
|
|
totalcount
Penny Sorter Member
USA
77 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2010 : 20:23:41
|
It might be possible to at least influence the price of some low-mintage but common coin in circulated condition. For instance, if the half-dollar hunters in our group picked one of the lower mintage half dollars and always pulled them from circulation then maybe over time they could cause the price to double or triple (from 50 cents to $1 or $1.50) Anyone trying to complete the set wouldn't be able to do so strictly from circulating coins and would have to buy them. That shouldn't require too big a bankroll.
I think the answer to jadedragon's "How would you motivate people to dig a rare coin out of their collection to sell it too you?" is that you don't need to. The only coins that can influence the price are ones that are on the market. If someone has a coin locked up and won't ever sell it then it won't affect supply at all. |
|
|
|
Dalsuh
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
757 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2010 : 02:20:09
|
I propose we hoard 1950 D nickels as a group. We might not be able to corner the market as stated by the other RCM's but it might be fun, like a friendly contest for the forum. Oober and I are already working on our small stash of 1950 D's  .
If I were wealthy I would try to buy up all the 1950 D nickels from coin stores/ebay. It would be interesting to see if you can actually drive up the costs from a crazy buying spree. Actually I think it's possible. |
PACK THE FORUM EVERY MONDAY NIGHT
Eastern 9 PM
Central 8 PM ( Forum Time )
Mountain 7 PM
Pacific 6 PM ( HoardCopperByTheTon Time)
|
|
|
|
cptindy
Penny Hoarding Member
572 Posts |
Posted - 01/28/2010 : 09:07:32
|
I am intrigued to say the least.
My thoughts are "What constitutes a cornering of the market"? I would say a percentage obviously. So then it leads to what percentage? It must relate to what the availability is. I like the thought line but am interested to say Why a specific coin? I get the fact that you are targeting a specific unit. But is this forum not a representative of cornering a market? What I see is lack of organization. From my perspective the banksters could not have gained the power they have without coordinating their efforts. Just as hoarding pennies makes it clear that the prevalence of these copper units is dwindling the problem lies in the control! Sure we are extracting for personal gain but are the efforts truly recognized on a grand scale? As a whole the consistent extraction will ultimately make the value rise. Supply and demand!
One thing that stands out to me is the mention of the "copper melting ban". What exactly is the significance? My thought is go ahead lift the ban and those that choose to melt the coin simply make those that have possession wealthier. The penny as a coin on the verge of extinction to me plays a large part in my mentality to hoard it as with all pm coins. Treating it as a mere metal to be melted in my opinion discredits its unique character.
I think I will spend some time on this as I truly believe we are only dreaming as an individual and can make a reality as a whole.
I welcome any like or unlike minds to open this as a discussion beyond a simple post.
|
"It is the nature of the human species to reject what is true but unpleasant and to embrace what is obviously false but comforting"
" The average man doesn't want to be free. He wants to be safe."
H.L. Mencken
http://silver-news-today.com/ |
|
|
|
Zyll
Penny Pincher Member
USA
214 Posts |
Posted - 01/28/2010 : 12:11:33
|
Interesting to ponder. MAYBE by hoarding a modern commemorative? Like one of the spouse gold coins? As the series goes on, more people might want to complete the set and try to find the Sarah Polk (or is that Uma Thurman?) you've cornered, and you can set your price. I think I heard that many of these spouse coins have already been melted for bullion?
You must be logged in to see this link. |
Edited by - Zyll on 01/28/2010 12:14:06 |
|
|
|
toomuchcopper
Penny Collector Member
USA
406 Posts |
Posted - 01/28/2010 : 17:09:40
|
| what about steelies....How many steels could be obtained? Could somoene obtain 200,000 stealies for a reasonable cost? what would that cost be? I would love to here insight on this....has anyone heard of people selling steelies in bulk? |
visit www.crazycoinguy.com
for information on how to sort, what to sort, and sorting equipment. We also sell copper pennies in bulk, and other coins. |
|
|
|
redneck
1000+ Penny Miser Member
1273 Posts |
Posted - 01/28/2010 : 22:57:57
|
quote:
Originally posted by OracleofMN
Has anyone ever tried to corner the market on a key date coin? Do you think it would be possible? I bet a small group of buyers would be able to take a large piece of a key date coin off the market. Think of some of the morgans with under 1mn coins. Maybe the hunt brothers should have tried this instead...
Possible...?
Possibly...
But why would you want to tie up that much capital up for so long before you could possibly profit from it ?
In my opinion,it would be better and safer to do several smaller deals of any kind rather than trying to corner the market in the relatively obscure area of coin collecting. Where as the Hunt Bros. tried to corner the entire Silver market.
If I found out that a group of people were hording a certain coin to artificially raise the price of said coin, I would balk at paying a premium for that coin. Therefore, if I were to live as long as you do and won't buy that coin, when would you profit ?
I'm sure I wouldn't be alone.
>
If I were you, I would leave speculating to the banks, government and the powers to be . If they make a mistake, they, at the very least, have the ability to try and print their way out of a deal gone bad.
>
Welcome to the board...
>
|
|
|
|
uthminsta
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1872 Posts |
Posted - 01/29/2010 : 00:18:48
|
Okay, this raises a question for me:
What's the most of any one coin you have ever owned?
For me, let's see...
a sealed box of one of the 2009 Lincoln designs...
solid date rolls of some memorials and wheats...
My one coin was 1900 Indian cents. I'm not sure why any more, but I had about 2 rolls of them at one time. They're all gone. |
Come to the new and improved realcent: http://realcent.org
|
|
|
|
just carl
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
601 Posts |
Posted - 02/01/2010 : 09:28:24
|
quote:
what about steelies....How many steels could be obtained? Could somoene obtain 200,000 stealies for a reasonable cost? what would that cost be? I would love to here insight on this....has anyone heard of people selling steelies in bulk?
Not attempting to corner the market for those but not long ago I had counted my stash at 2,650 of those. Not any longer since I just gave 500 of them to YN just to lower my massive pile of STUFF.
As to cornering the market on almost anything today, just not something worth attempting. Say for example you tried this with the 1916D Mercuy Dime. Imagine how much it would cost to even communicate with all the holders of that coin to make them an offer. Even a lesser Mintage coin such as the 1894S Liberty Head Dime. It would take a fortune just trying to find out who had all those.
Anything is possible but I would think the minute the Chinese heard about such an attempt, they would increase thier production of those. |
Carl |
|
|
| |
Topic |
|
Corner the Market
Forum Locked
