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giddyup99
Penny Pincher Member
USA
154 Posts |
 Posted - 01/02/2010 : 10:15:14
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Ran across this site today.
You must be logged in to see this link.
What kind of scam is this, or not? Bars are labeled 1 toz. 100 mills. From what I can find they say it is not "solid" silver, but some kind of layered silver bar. Is not 1 toz weather layered or otherwise still 1 toz?
Are they representing these products ethically?
Something doesn't seem right, maybe its just my unfamiliarity of the process used to make them.
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Experience is what you get when you don't get what you want. |
Edited by - giddyup99 on 01/02/2010 10:19:25 |
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jadedragon
Administrator
Canada
3788 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2010 : 10:28:59
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Ya, they are selling plated gold and plated silver bars and are upfront about it. However, there is a high possibility of deceptive/confusing practices on resale of a bar that says 1 t.oz gold 100 mills that people will think it is solid gold. I can't find any definition of .100 mills or 100 mills with a web search.
Copper Cave sells their solid copper products but Nate said here he was not going to touch the plated stuff. |
“The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” – George Bernard Shaw.
Why Copper Bullion ~~~ Interview with Silver Bullion Producer Market Harmony
Passive Income blog |
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giddyup99
Penny Pincher Member
USA
154 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2010 : 11:07:47
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They aren't really that upfront about what exactly these bars are. They just say "layered". The gold ones say they are actually plated. I did a web search for .100 mills too, found nothing.
I'm thinking these guys are scheisters.
There are hundreds of these things selling on ebay, most selling for $15-$19; close to the same as other solid silver 1 toz bars.
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Experience is what you get when you don't get what you want. |
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moboman
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
2555 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2010 : 11:10:38
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| Howcome the website says .100 mills and the bar says 100mills? |
"99% of all lawyers give the rest of them a bad name" 
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natsb88
Administrator
USA
1850 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2010 : 12:16:11
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| They make solid .999 products in a number of metals, plated and colorized products, and "replica" gold bars and coins. I only deal with the solid products. The plated and replica products are big on eBay, but are just novelty items with little to no metal value. They do mark all of their plated products as such, and the replica products have "COPY" or "REPLICA" on the back. I'm not a fan of that type of stuff, but it's no worse than those "Gold Buffalo $50 Tribute" coins advertised on TV as containing "31mg of pure gold" for $19.95 a piece... |
Nate
The Copper Cave
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dakota1955
1000+ Penny Miser Member
2212 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2010 : 09:57:11
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| You get what you pay for. |
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snappy
Penny Collector Member
USA
301 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2010 : 10:16:24
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| I think a mill is 1 mm thick. so a .100 would be 1/10th of a MM thick. (very thin) |
Selling Ryedale sorted USA cents
1.5 each + shipping over 500fv 1.5 each +1/2 shipping
If you pick up 1.35 each
located MT/ND boarder.
after Ryedale sorting they are hand sorted to remove canadian then rechecked with Ryedale to insure all copper and count out $50 FV then placed in cloth bags and sealed with #1 copper wire. |
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AGgressive Metal
Administrator
USA
1937 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2010 : 13:22:21
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quote:
Originally posted by snappy
I think a mill is 1 mm thick. so a .100 would be 1/10th of a MM thick. (very thin)
That makes sense.
A "mill" also means 1/10th of a cent and used to be used for accounting purposes. |
And he that hath lyberte ought to kepe hit wel / For nothyng is better than lyberte / For lyberte shold not be wel sold for alle the gold and syluer of all the world.
-Caxton's edition of Aesop's Fables, 1484 |
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feirefiz
Penny Sorter Member
Canada
62 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2010 : 20:48:52
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that's wierd, one mil is one, one thousandth of an inch, we use those measure's at work alot
but 100 'mils' would be a tenth of an inch which would be pretty thick for a plated bar,
i wonder if they mean 100 mill -igrams of silver? |
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jayray2k
New Member
USA
4 Posts |
Posted - 01/13/2010 : 07:13:47
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| I would like to keep this thread going. I recently purchased 100 1 gram bars of .999 silver just to check them out. I won the auction at significantly lower prices than they advertise on their website, so I went for it. Then I noticed something, or maybe its just the waiting! They ship a lot of their stuff from China. I want to know if even the real stuff is real. Do the copper bars come from China? How would I assay them most easily once they get here? Any additional thoughts? I realize 1 gram is small, but a lot of people buy them for $2-$3 each on eBay. I have seen 1 gram gold bars, realize they are small...probably too small even for commerce purposes...half a dime... |
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jayray2k
New Member
USA
4 Posts |
Posted - 01/15/2010 : 12:58:14
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| Got my shipment today...from California via China...skeptical, that's all i can say...I am going to have one assayed to see... |
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natsb88
Administrator
USA
1850 Posts |
Posted - 01/15/2010 : 18:35:40
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I had a discussion with the owner of CMC about items shipping from China. Unlike a lot of goods made overseas, where a US/Canadian company will contract with a Chinese company to have goods made, CMC actually owns their factory and presses in China, and the owner (in Canada) sources their materials. The owner has been great to work with, and was in the metals business long before he started CMC.
Since there is concern about products coming in from China, and understandably so, next week I am arranging to test a number of the CMC products I have on hand, including copper, nickel, tin, aluminum, tantalum, titanium, and silver. The test will involve cutting the bars in half to ensure they are not plated, and then analyzing them with an x-ray fluorescence gun to determine the metal content. I will be sure to post the results. |
Nate
The Copper Cave
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MattL
New Member
Canada
5 Posts |
Posted - 01/17/2010 : 13:26:11
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I too won some .999 fine "pure" silver 1/4oz bars from them off Ebay. Shipped from China, they've been stuck in customs since Christmas. Until they show up, I am remaining skeptical.
There's no duty/tax on .999 fine silver coming into Canada, but there is on items (bars/coins/etc) of lesser silver content. I am thinking (purely speculation at this point) they are having a hard time proving to customs Canada that they are indeed pure silver.
Looking forward to hearing the results of the assay. I think my 1/4 ozers will be large enough to make that distinctive silver ringing sound, if indeed they are pure. If I drop one on my desk and it goes *thud*, I don't even think it's worth melting or cutting one in half just to see that they are garbage. |
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natsb88
Administrator
USA
1850 Posts |
Posted - 01/17/2010 : 13:34:23
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quote:
Originally posted by MattL
I am thinking (purely speculation at this point) they are having a hard time proving to customs Canada that they are indeed pure silver.
Possible, but not likely the cause of the delay. I have had packages sit in customs for over a week, and when they arrived, it was obvious they were never even opened. Of course that was going the other way (Canada to US). I have sent packages to Germany and the UK though with the same result...sat in customs for 7-10 days for no apparent reason. |
Nate
The Copper Cave
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MattL
New Member
Canada
5 Posts |
Posted - 01/17/2010 : 16:15:23
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| True, I have had packages take a while in customs as well. But when I put in the tracking number, it shows "clearance delay" for every business day since Dec 23rd. Just about a full month now :( That is certainly not typical. Plus I've been given no real explanation for why this is happening. |
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natsb88
Administrator
USA
1850 Posts |
Posted - 01/17/2010 : 17:56:12
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quote:
Originally posted by MattL
But when I put in the tracking number, it shows "clearance delay" for every business day since Dec 23rd.
Ah, that's different then. Mine either don't say anything, or just say "arrived at customs" or "arrived in destination country."
I doubt the package was marked "999 silver" unless you specifically requested it, so I don't know how that affects customs. |
Nate
The Copper Cave
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MattL
New Member
Canada
5 Posts |
Posted - 01/17/2010 : 21:04:24
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I wasn't expecting it to have to go through any customs. From the wording on the auction page, it made it sound like they were minted in and shipped from Manitoba, Canada.
I was told by the seller that they are in the process of moving all their operations to China. Curious though how I couldn't find any mention of a CMC Mint in Canada on the net (other than their own website, of course). I did find this though: You must be logged in to see this link. |
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jayray2k
New Member
USA
4 Posts |
Posted - 01/18/2010 : 12:02:54
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I just went to their website and it has maintenance mode until march 1st! if you placed an order it has been processed!
Nate - are you serious that you've spoken with these people -- sounds like a giant shell game -- i see these 1 grammers all over eBay!
Waiting on the test results -- but can you still reach him?!? What does he say about the website? |
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MattL
New Member
Canada
5 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2010 : 15:55:10
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quote:
Originally posted by jayray2k
Waiting on the test results -- but can you still reach him?!? What does he say about the website?
I had a chat with the boss today. He said they are having some down time to catch up on orders, plus this period falls during the Chinese New Year (early-mid February).
Hopefully my customs mess will be cleared up now, should have my silver within a few days if all works out. |
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natsb88
Administrator
USA
1850 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2010 : 16:12:55
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quote:
Originally posted by jayray2k
I just went to their website and it has maintenance mode until march 1st! if you placed an order it has been processed!
Nate - are you serious that you've spoken with these people -- sounds like a giant shell game -- i see these 1 grammers all over eBay!
Waiting on the test results -- but can you still reach him?!? What does he say about the website?
Yes, I have emailed back and forth quite a bit with the owner, usually quick to respond, never had any problem getting questions answered. I'm getting one more order in before they close for February.
The website is closed because of the Chinese New Year. His factory will be closed all of February and will reopen in March. He is also planning to change the website around while he has some down time. The website did not have many of the newer products on it.
I haven't done the testing yet, I have the products ready to go, just trying to find a time that the lab manager who has access to the XRF gun is available to work with me. Classes just started this week for the spring semester so everybody at the university has been busy. As much as I'd like to, I can't just walk in and pick up a $50,000 piece of equipment and play with it, somebody has to be there that knows how to use it 
He and I discussed the amount of products showing up on eBay. Some of the new products coming out in March will only be sold to select dealers, not to eBay resellers, so you won't see a flooded market like you do with the 1-gram bars now, and there won't be any question about who you're actually buying them from. He has some very cool stuff coming out  |
Nate
The Copper Cave
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jayray2k
New Member
USA
4 Posts |
Posted - 01/25/2010 : 21:13:34
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| I had them tested and they are real. It's a shame that you have to take a guarded attitude. I hope I didn't offend anyone, and I love the products! |
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MattL
New Member
Canada
5 Posts |
Posted - 01/25/2010 : 23:38:17
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Got mine just the other day, finally!
Did some test cuts then cut/broke one in half, they appear genuine to me. Although the few I weighed were all nearly 3% underweight. |
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fasteddy
Penny Collector Member
USA
298 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2010 : 16:46:14
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| Thanks for the testing I was thinking about doing it myself but will believe ya'll. I received the rounds from China faster than the rounds from Canada. |
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Shattered
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
523 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2010 : 17:47:40
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| I was able to get a 1 gram copper bar off ebay for $0.05. I wanted it just to see how big these things really are and it is nice to hear from you guys that they are real. |
"I need metal in my life, just like an eagle needs to fly."
-Joseph DeMaio : Die For Metal |
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CMC Mint
Forum Locked
