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toomuchcopper
Penny Collector Member
USA
406 Posts |
 Posted - 11/14/2009 : 09:46:07
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so like many others out there with limited time in the penny sorting business (or hobby) there comes a point in time in which you ask yourself "should i take this to the next level" by next level i mean, buy the ryedale or two and sort 50 plus boxes a week. So my question to all of you big-time sorters is can you make any money at this as a business, or at least break even enough to pay for your machines and sock away a lot of copper for yourself. I know that a lot of you have websites selling copper, i have looked at most of them, i also know that many of you sell on ebay. but how much do you really sell, is there a "real" market for the copper and what happens to the market if 100 new guys buy machines and join in, does that then completely saturate the market and make selling virtually impossible without discounting the price? or maybe it "makes" the market? I guess what i am asking is are you doing this mostly to enhance your own position in the copper bullion as far as stockpiling it, or are you really figuring you can make money at this, or is it just a hobby that has gotten a little out of control?
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visit www.crazycoinguy.com
for information on how to sort, what to sort, and sorting equipment. We also sell copper pennies in bulk, and other coins. |
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HoardCopperByTheTon
Administrator
USA
6807 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2009 : 11:24:57
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Excellent questions! First thing you have to think about when considering going to that level is your zinc disposal plan. That is the trickiest part of the equation when you start to do volume. From a time standpoint there are plenty of more lucrative endeavors you could engage in. The machine is just a tool (albeit a very wonderful tool) that allows you to increase the number of pennies you can process in the same amount of time. My only regret about buying my first Ryedale was that I didn't do it sooner than I did.
The Ryedale is just the first machine.. it takes other types of machines to effectively enter the marketplace. For the selling end you would need a counter to count out the coins you sell or at least a decent scale if you are going to sell by weight. On the sorting side the machinery that will make your life easier depends on your banks. If your banks have free lobby coin machines you can get away without requiring equipment on that side. Some banks will take coin precounted in bags.. for which you would need a coin counter. But what if your bank will only take rolled coin for deposit? You would quickly tire rolling all those zincs up by hand.. but you don't even want to know what automatic rolling machines cost. With all the above, there will be limits.. I'm sure you have read posts on here about other members getting cut off.
In the old days, copper prices on eBay were higher, and the fees were lower so it was an easy decision. I was one of the first to begin developing the market on eBay. When others saw the prices they were bringing Andy sold a lot of machines. eBay ads now are more to maintain market presence and for intitial customer contact leading to much bigger subsequent sales. I paid for every one of my machines by selling copper pennies. After netting eBay and PayPal fees you could actually end up getting below face in an auction.. some members here have experienced this.
I am in for the trifecta. It is a fun hobby, I am building up my own hoard, and occasionally I sell some for a profit.. but I am not in a marketing mode at current price levels. Now is the time to hoard.. later is the time to sell.
If you want to build up a sizeable hoard, there are 2 options.. buy a Ryedale or buy your copper from another member that already owns one while the price is cheap. The beauty of this hobby is you can set your own hours, and participate at whatever level you are comfortable at.  |
If your percentages are low.. just sort more. If your percentages are high.. just sort more.
Now selling Copper pennies. 1.6x plus shipping. Limited amounts available. |
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slickeast
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
2533 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2009 : 11:56:42
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| ^^^^^ What He Said ^^^^^^^^^^ |
You don't have to be the BEST you just have to be.......SLICK
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toomuchcopper
Penny Collector Member
USA
406 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2009 : 14:22:32
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ok...so heres ,more questions.
do you tell your banks what you are doing?
what is in it for the bank?
do you run your business as a business? ie...taxes, irs, income profit and loss, depreciation, etc. or is it just cash.
how do you carry all those boxes of pennies in and out of the bank?
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visit www.crazycoinguy.com
for information on how to sort, what to sort, and sorting equipment. We also sell copper pennies in bulk, and other coins. |
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Gr33nday43
New Member
Uzbekistan
10 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2009 : 14:29:40
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1. You shouldn't feel obligated to tell the banks what you are doing. I however, will tell anyone who asks.
2. Nothing is in it for the bank, unless you are possibly in HCBTT's situation or someone on that level where the bank needs rolled coins, he and others have posted about this happening before. The bank is actually losing money off of you, so be nice to them, and if possible open a bank account in all of your dump and source banks. What I usually do is when buying coins, I withdraw money from my account and when dumping them I deposit the money in the account until say the next day. This makes the bank happier.
3. I could be using my money for more profitable endeavors...to be this is a hobby where you actually gain some money, but I wouldn't call it a business. For bigger players I doubt many are reporting to the IRS, as you would not technically have any profit if you were just sorting and holding, I believe.
4. I and many others use carts, you can also use a Dolley or some other equivalent. I think they sell these pull carts that you can buy at Walmart that should hold at least 10 boxes. You could also just carry them out of the bank four, five, six, or ten at a time...
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dakota1955
1000+ Penny Miser Member
2212 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2009 : 15:31:39
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| I think that most of us are doing for the future of what copper may bring. And if we can break even or make a few cents for now that is great. We are all looking forward. |
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jadedragon
Administrator
Canada
3788 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2009 : 15:54:59
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It is a hobby for me. I just like collecting and trading coins. Mostly I trade Canadian nickels and pennies into silver and on up to gold coins and bars. Who can say if I make a profit and if I do profit where is it really made in a multi-national, multi-currency, multi-metal system I'm running?
Effectively I'm building a big collection of valuable metal at face value and for the trades, at well below spot. I also enjoy sorting out the US coins I get and using them to mail packages or whatever because it is like getting par for my Canadian dollars.
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“The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” – George Bernard Shaw.
Why Copper Bullion ~~~ Interview with Silver Bullion Producer Market Harmony
Passive Income blog |
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coppernickel
Penny Pincher Member
USA
131 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2009 : 17:14:27
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For me it is a hobby. I have not made any cash off the cents I have collected.
I really don't worry about this bank spending money to get cents or nickels. They are part of the FED and if the FED must pay the Mint for making a few coins it makes up for the Goverment, of which the mint is part, for the Trillions they charge for the paper they loan us.
Do I tell them. At times I have, but mostly my answer is, "It is for my small business." That usually makes them happy. |
Silver Monometalism is the most permanent and stable form of money the world has seen. Natural law and history prove silver value is best multiplied by gold and best divided by copper. It is only in this counterfeit currency time when the natural law appears suspended. |
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NotABigDeal
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
3890 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2009 : 17:26:20
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quote:
Originally posted by coppernickel
For me it is a hobby. I have not made any cash off the cents I have collected.
I really don't worry about this bank spending money to get cents or nickels. They are part of the FED and if the FED must pay the Mint for making a few coins it makes up for the Goverment, of which the mint is part, for the Trillions they charge for the paper they loan us.
Do I tell them. At times I have, but mostly my answer is, "It is for my small business." That usually makes them happy.
HoardCopperByTheTon pretty much summed it up. Problem with the highlighted statement is that if the bank thinks you are a business, that is where the "F" word (fee) comes in.
Deal |
Live free or die.
Plain and simple.
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your council or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen."
- Samuel Adams |
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highroller4321
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
2648 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2009 : 19:04:16
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| Its differnt for everyone. You have to decide what your goals are and how you are going to achieve them. |
Copper Penny Investing
www.portlandmint.com |
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HoardCopperByTheTon
Administrator
USA
6807 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2009 : 20:22:02
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| I highly recommend the purchase of a decent cart for hauling coins in and out of the bank. This should be one of your first purchases. My main cart has a 660 pound capacity. I have a smaller cart for smaller loads. For 6-8 boxes I just toss them in a couple of bags and carry them in. |
If your percentages are low.. just sort more. If your percentages are high.. just sort more.
Now selling Copper pennies. 1.6x plus shipping. Limited amounts available. |
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Copper Catcher
Administrator
USA
2092 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2009 : 20:42:36
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HoardCopperByTheTon stated things nicely!
For me sorting pennies is a hobby just like metal detecting, panning for gold, fishing or even target shooting. It cost money to do these things and it also takes you willing to set aside time. Time is what most people lack and few are willing to take the real time needed to sort pennies because they are so busy with life in general.
Also, unless you have lots of money to invest making this into a full-time or even part-time business it would be very difficult.
A question you might want to ask yourself is what is the maximum amount of money you can really afford to tie up long term. Sometimes I think people get confused when they hear the words "long term." I would define this as ten years or longer!
Are you willing and can you truly afford put aside $$,$$$ or much more in copper pennies waiting for the melt ban to be lifted or being able to wait for the penny to be retired? If so, great go for it. If not then are you willing to try to sell what you sort and pay all the fees? Good Luck!
I think for most people it is best to keep this in the realm of a hobby and try to keep it fun and do not worry about the fast buck.
In my opinion: The bottom line is if copper continues to go up in price...and it will. Regardless, if the melt ban is lifted or not the copper penny will go the way of most all the silver coinage that was minted in the United States. By the time the general public realizes this HoardCopperByTheTon and a hand full of others will have all the pennies in one big pile and they will be smiling!
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HoardCopperByTheTon
Administrator
USA
6807 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2009 : 20:45:50
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| *Is already smiling* |
If your percentages are low.. just sort more. If your percentages are high.. just sort more.
Now selling Copper pennies. 1.6x plus shipping. Limited amounts available. |
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slickeast
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
2533 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2009 : 22:08:45
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I keep adding more and more, because I know as soon as the masses catch on and the copper pennies dry out, I will kick myself for not sorting more.
Just think about how much 90% you would have if you started in the mid sixties. It would have been so much easier and at face.
One day the copper pennies will be selling for 3-4X face (or more) with no shortage of buyers. |
You don't have to be the BEST you just have to be.......SLICK
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Copper Catcher
Administrator
USA
2092 Posts |
Posted - 11/15/2009 : 08:26:34
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| Slickeast....I agree! |
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Farmall
Penny Pincher Member
USA
112 Posts |
Posted - 11/15/2009 : 09:51:20
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quote:
Originally posted by slickeast
One day the copper pennies will be selling for 3-4X face (or more) with no shortage of buyers.
This is what I'm banking on. |
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is penny sorting a business or a hobby
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