| Author |
 Topic  |
|
pencilvanian
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
2209 Posts |
Posted - 08/09/2007 : 20:42:03
|
Trash to steam for the rest of the garbage? Create electricity from the trash to steam and/or methane burned? Sounds like a useful idea. All we have to do is try to convince congress to go along with the idea.
I should have chosen "Cut-n-Paste" as a forum name, since that is what I do, mostly. |
 |
|
|
HoardCopperByTheTon
Administrator
USA
6807 Posts |
Posted - 08/09/2007 : 21:58:43
|
Looking forward to seeing the new coins with King Carl's bust on them. What would the legends on these new improved coins be?.. Illegitimis non carborundum? What would be featured on the reverse side.. Bandini Mountain? I agree with him about the efficiency of government. I think I read somewhere that if the government were to manufacture a six pack of coke it would cost them about $264,000 to produce it.. they would sell it for $28 and it would only have 5 cans in it.
There are already several private companies setting up to burn garbage to create energy.
"Preserving REAL coinage.. 2 tons at a time"
HoardCode0.1:M48/14USCA:US1Cu642800:US5Ni4400:CA5Ni280 |
|
|
|
horgad
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1641 Posts |
 Posted - 08/10/2007 : 06:38:30
|
| They should make the new coins from nuclear waste - depleted uranium, not so depleted uranium, etc. Not only would they finally have a use for a waste product (besides shooting it at Iraqis), but the radioactivity of the coins would discourage hoarding. |
|
|
|
HoardCopperByTheTon
Administrator
USA
6807 Posts |
Posted - 08/10/2007 : 08:33:38
|
There is nowhere near enough nuclear waste to meet the coinage demands. The amount of material generated after it is reprocessed is miniscule. I like the idea of glow in the dark coins, though.
"Preserving REAL coinage.. 2 tons at a time"
HoardCode0.1:M49/15USCA:US1Cu664800:US5Ni4400:CA5Ni1150 |
|
|
|
n/a
deleted
42 Posts |
Posted - 08/11/2007 : 04:34:44
|
quote:
Originally posted by horgad
"this legistlation would be unconstitional."
It would definitely be unconstitional, but at this point it doesn't really matter. The US monetary system has already been gutted by unconstitional fiat dollars and unconstitutional clad coins.
So does this pass? I have no idea. I can't figure out who this benefits besides the taxpayer, but maybe I am missing something.
Maybe the metal and coin blank suppliers figure that it will be easier/cheaper to bribe one man instead of half of congress. So maybe they look forward to the consolidation of power.
On the other if this is not a planned move on thier part, the uncertainty may freak out the metal and coin suppliers and the bill may meet strong opposition.
Right on, our money system hasn't been constitutional for a long time. So it doesn't matter, we'll either be screwed by one person or a few people.
One thing for sure, if the metal composition changes, we won't be asked to give up the penny! |
|
|
|
horgad
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1641 Posts |
Posted - 08/14/2007 : 07:50:53
|
The links that I posted went stale. The best way to track the bill is to use the below link and search for coinage.
You must be logged in to see this link.
Currently the bill is being reviewed by two different committees, one in the House and one in the Senate.
The search results should look like:
1 . Coinage Materials Modernization Act of 2007 (Introduced in House)[H.R.3330.IH]
2 . Coinage Materials Modernization Act of 2007 (Introduced in Senate)[S.1986.IS]
|
|
|
|
horgad
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1641 Posts |
Posted - 08/14/2007 : 07:59:01
|
| Also as a rough guideline, only only about ten percent of bills introduced and send to comittee are ever reported back to the House or Senate for further consideration. |
|
|
|
n/a
deleted
43 Posts |
Posted - 08/14/2007 : 12:59:15
|
| I noticed this bill is co-sponsored by Rep. Barney Frank. Isn't he pretty influential? Also, unless there is a lot of opposition, there would be no reason for this not to go through. Especially if vending machine companies are not really concerned about coin recognition problems anymore. |
|
|
|
horgad
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1641 Posts |
Posted - 08/21/2007 : 08:08:25
|
Barney Frank is the Financial Services Committee chairman. The Financial Services Committee is the comittee that is currently reviewing/debating the bill. Since the head of the comitte co-sponsored the bill, I would say that there is a better than average chance that the bill will make it out of committe and get voted on.
I said earlier that about 9 in 10 bills die in committee, but it seems likely that this one will make it out of comittee.
Disclaimer: My knowledge on the process of bills turning into laws is pretty slim. I am learning as I go and making half educated (or half a**ed) comments along the way. By the way, that is pretty much my modus operandi for all things :) |
|
|
|
n/a
deleted
43 Posts |
Posted - 08/21/2007 : 08:51:50
|
I read an article yesterday that said this bill will probably pass. Jarden, the penny blank company, is only lobbying to preserve the penny - they are metal neutral. So, they are not against the bill.
I'm starting to wonder if it's time to store boxes of US nickels. It might be better to get them now before they have to be sorted against the new currency. |
|
|
|
HoardCopperByTheTon
Administrator
USA
6807 Posts |
Posted - 08/21/2007 : 10:38:04
|
quote:
Originally posted by creekrat
I'm starting to wonder if it's time to store boxes of US nickels. It might be better to get them now before they have to be sorted against the new currency.
I don't think there is any rush on the nickels yet. Judging by how hard it is for me to get the shiny new 2007 nickels it will take some time for the new ones to show up in circulation. With a composition change we would have several months advance notice and could go down to the bank and buy as many boxes of nickels as our play money would allow. Of course i am not overly worried as my Ryedale machine will sort nickels too if I need it to.
"Preserving REAL coinage.. 2 tons at a time"
HoardCode0.1:M49/15USCA:US1Cu673200(150000 Reserved):US5Ni14700:CA5Ni1150 |
|
|
|
Cody8404
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
602 Posts |
Posted - 08/21/2007 : 22:22:36
|
| I doubt that you will see the ban lifted. If you look at the laws still on the books it is still illegal to melt the silver coins that were taken out of circulation due to the removal of silver from 1965-1970. They are still considered being hoarded. Remember they are still legal tender, even if their intrinsic value is multiple times their face value. |
|
|
|
HoardCopperByTheTon
Administrator
USA
6807 Posts |
Posted - 08/22/2007 : 00:46:38
|
Pretty sure when I was researching the legality of melting coins back before the current ban on melting pennies and nickels that I saw in the Federal Register that the ban on melting silver coins was rescinded in 1969.
I would expect the current ban on melting pennies and nickels to remain in effect 3-4 years after a composition change before it is lifted.
"Preserving REAL coinage.. 2 tons at a time"
HoardCode0.1:M49/15USCA:US1Cu673200(150000 Reserved):US5Ni14700:CA5Ni1150 |
|
|
|
horgad
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1641 Posts |
Posted - 08/22/2007 : 12:20:43
|
Besides the current melt ban, there were two other melt bans in recent history. The silver coin melt ban from 1967-1969 and the penny melt ban 1974-1978. Both were terminated after they were no longer needed.
You must be logged in to see this link.
"In all essential respects, these regulations are patterned after the Department of the Treasury's regulations prohibiting the exportation, melting, or treatment of silver coins between 1967 and 1969, and the regulations prohibiting the exportation, melting, or treatment of one-cent coins between 1974 and 1978."
|
|
|
|
horgad
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1641 Posts |
Posted - 09/12/2007 : 13:12:14
|
The bill is still trickling through the system. The last action regarding it took place on the 5th.
8/2/2007:
Referred to the House Committee on Financial Services.
8/3/2007:
Sponsor introductory remarks on measure. (CR E1720)
9/5/2007:
Referred to the Subcommittee on Domestic and International Monetary Policy, Trade, and Technology.
|
|
|
|
horgad
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1641 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2007 : 12:36:27
|
This article contains information about the progress of the new proposed coin composition law. This proposal is looking very, very lively...
You must be logged in to see this link.
Points from the article:
1. penny melting, by Jackson Metals, was occuring on an industrial level prior to the melt ban
2. the new law came really close to making it out of committee and being voted on last Wednesday.
3. because of political activity by Jackson Metals, the bill has been amended to remove the melt ban
4. the bill is currently hung up by the amendment and by political activity by a supplier to the mint worried that they might lose business if compositions are changed
5. there will be a meeting next week to discuss #4, as such committee passage of the bill is put off for at least 2 weeks |
Edited by - horgad on 11/02/2007 12:50:22 |
|
|
|
horgad
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1641 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2007 : 12:45:15
|
The article in case the link to it goes stale:
Southern Ohio company seeks penny profits
But critics say lawmaker's aid could cost taxpayers
Thursday, November 1, 2007 8:14 AM
By Jonathan Riskind
jriskind@dispatch.com
A small southern Ohio company and the freshman congressman who has taken up its cause say the lowly penny, ignored by many or simply tossed into drawers and jars, could mean big bucks and good jobs for a struggling region.
So when Rep. Zack Space amended a coin-composition bill to allow Jackson Metals of Jackson to melt down pre-1982 pennies, which contain more valuable copper than the current copper-plated zinc cents, the Dover Democrat proclaimed a major legislative victory. He said it could create more than 30 jobs and save all American taxpayers money.
But as is often the case in Washington, the issue isn’t quite that simple — victory is still a ways away. Opponents of the idea say that the while the company might profit by selling the copper, taxpayers would be big losers.
The bill, which would authorize the U.S. Mint to change the metal composition of coins to make them less expensive to produce, is no longer on a fast track. It was supposed to be approved Wednesday in the House Financial Services Committee, with the blessing of bill co-author and committee Chairman Barney Frank, D-Mass.
But Democratic Rep. Jerry Costello of Illinois raised concerns about how changing the metals in nickels and other coins — though not pennies — would affect a contract a company in his district had to supply materials to the Mint. Now a hearing on the bill will be held next week, with possible committee passage put off at least until the following week.
Officials at the Mint declined to discuss the Jackson Metals issue. But the U.S. Treasury and Mint banned the melting of pennies and nickels last December. The rules became final in April, largely putting a halt to Jackson Metals’ operations.
And Treasury and Mint officials clearly prefer a Senate bill that allows them to alter coin composition but does not have the provision benefiting Jackson Metals.
Because the coins have become more expensive to produce than their face value — about 1.6 cents per penny and nearly 10 cents per nickel — melting and recycling the coins as scrap metal could cost U.S. taxpayers more than $1 million a day, the Treasury and Mint said.
The Mint says nothing specifically about Jackson Metals in its rules. But because of the value of the metals such as copper, nickel and zinc used in current coins — a big reason the Mint wants the authority to use cheaper metals — and “anecdotal reports suggesting this activity might be occurring,” the ban is warranted, the rules say.
The owner of Jackson Metals, Walter Luhrman, said in an interview this week that the Mint has it all wrong. He stressed that he, and probably a number of other interested parties, had called the Mint to find out whether there was any prohibition on the melting of coins — and was told there was not.
In any case, Luhrman said, his company does not cost taxpayers money, it saves taxpayers money
He first contacted Space about his plight in January, after the initial rules came out halting his company’s main penny-melting activities. He has given money to Republicans such as Sen. George V. Voinovich of Ohio in the past but has not contributed to Space.
Space quickly took up the cause and has issued multiple press releases calling for Jackson Metals to be allowed to melt down pennies. That culminated in the freshman Democrat persuading Frank to include the Jackson Metals provision in the coin bill.
Luhrman argues that he culls out pre-1982 pennies, which used more copper than the current copper-plated zinc ones, and sells some to collectors, but then redistributes the three-quarters of the pennies left over to areas of the country where there are shortages. He maintains that, as a result, the Mint could produce fewer pennies each year. That would be no small item when you consider that that 6.58 billion pennies were produced this year at a cost ranging from 1.4 cents to 1.6 cents, according to the Mint.
“Our activities can save the Mint $20 million to $30 million a year,” Luhrman said. In addition to some 30 well-paying jobs, his company would pay a local trucking company some $2 million a year to haul all those pennies, he said.
Beth Deisher, editor of the national hobby magazine Coin World, published weekly in Sidney, Ohio, doesn’t buy that argument. She said that she knows of no penny shortage in any particular area that leads the Mint to produce more pennies overall.
The Treasury banned melting cents and nickels “because of the replacement costs of those coins,” Deisher said. "If there are shortages, he (Jackson Metals) is creating them."
A bigger debate has raged for years over whether the penny even needs to be produced any longer. Some say that losing the penny would mean higher, rounded-up prices.
With the Mint planning to come out with new pennies in 2009 to mark the bicentennial of President Lincoln’s birth and centennial of the first Lincoln penny, the coin’s death probably is not imminent.
But Deisher, for one, doesn't see much sense in the coin's continued production.
"It's difficult to say that it is good for anything but collecting these days," she said. "It's practically useless in commerce. It's hard to justify why our government insists on making this denomination today."
For his part, Luhrman says his business plans aren’t affected either by the overall legislation’s goal of cheapening the penny or by efforts to kill off the penny. With billions more copper-laden pennies still in circulation, there’s plenty of time for his venture to profit if Space’s legislation is approved, Luhrman said.
|
Edited by - horgad on 11/02/2007 12:46:26 |
|
|
|
Tourney64
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1035 Posts |
Posted - 11/05/2007 : 06:05:14
|
| If the US coins do change composition, which is very likely, look at what the cost will be to all those vending companies. Look at all the profit companies like Coin Mechanisms Inc. would make on selling replacement coin comparitor parts. That company will be a goldmine. Unfortunately, they appear to be privately owned, so no investment opportunity. |
|
|
|
pencilvanian
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
2209 Posts |
Posted - 11/05/2007 : 19:45:38
|
quote:
Originally posted by Tourney64
If the US coins do change composition, which is very likely, look at what the cost will be to all those vending companies. Look at all the profit companies like Coin Mechanisms Inc. would make on selling replacement coin comparitor parts. That company will be a goldmine. Unfortunately, they appear to be privately owned, so no investment opportunity.
Maybe no direct investment opportunuty, but maybe there is an indirect one, these companmies must buy raw materials from someone to make the new coin mechanisms, or outsource the electronic work to others.
I can't remember the quote exactly, but it went something like this-
"If you can't invest in XYZ Potato Chip Company, invest in the company that sells potato chip bags to XYZ."
(This applies to other blogs/forums, didn't mean to annoy anyone here with this)
Starve the Trolls, don't feed or encourage them.
Destroy the Moonbat breeding caves.
Moonbat, A winged troll. |
|
|
|
Ponce
Penny Hoarding Member
Cuba
630 Posts |
Posted - 11/16/2007 : 18:06:19
|
Today I found another ammo box (fifty caliber) full of pennies in my garage and a smaller one full of quarters...... that's beside the five 5 gallons plastic water containers that I have full of coins and dollar bills.
I have between 40 and 50 bricks of nickels..... the bank refuses to give any more bricks of nickels, I told them that I used them to play cards in my house with my friends and that I was the banker hahahahahaha.......they no longer believe me, oh well.
WTSHTF coins will retain their value because no one will be making them any longer..... like in germany in 1923.
"If you don't hold it, you don't own it"...Ponce |
|
|
|
pencilvanian
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
2209 Posts |
|
|
fiatboy
Administrator
912 Posts |
Posted - 11/17/2007 : 21:29:57
|
Thanks for the article pencilvanian. After reading it, I think it's interesting that possible exceptions to the melt ban include war nickels. Anyone know what, if any, other exceptions there currently are to the melt ban, besides 90% silver?
"Bart, it's not about how many stocks you have, it's about how much copper wire you can get out of the building." --- Homer Simpson |
|
|
|
n/a
deleted
11 Posts |
Posted - 11/25/2007 : 19:14:45
|
| The ban will probably stay in place until sometime after 2009. This is when the new Lincoln cent will be produced to celibrate the bicentennial of Lincolns birth. It may well be 95% copper like the 1909 cent. The mint will stop making cents in 2010. |
|
|
|
Cody8404
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
602 Posts |
Posted - 11/26/2007 : 10:22:07
|
Just a thought, but you might want to keep up on the debate coming out of Canada. They are getting very concerned about all that worthless US change that is getting smuggled across the boarder and being used as real Canadian coins in vending machines and the like.
People are getting very worried about getting ripped off because the change machines are not able to tell Canadian Money from the Worthless US money.
The biggest question is when the rip off is big enough to change the machines so that they tell the difference.
The question wasn’t even thought of until the USD fell below the CND. I see a lot of squawk but very little action. Is it because people are waiting to see if the CND can depreciate faster then the USD?
|
Awake, O kings of the earth! Come ye, O, come ye, with your gold and your silver, to the help of my people, to the house of the daughters of Zion, to the help of the people of the God of this Land even Jesus Christ. |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
New Law Would Make It Easy To Change Coins
Forum Locked
